Autopsy The Phoenix Thread - Where Do We Start? (Rebuild)

[Cuzz09]

I saw a tweet today from an Ess fan something along the line of

"4 top 10 picks in the last few years playing today.... all look like amounting to nothing... another 20 years of nothing for Essendon FC"

Thats not what we want... get the picks right

 

[ziad]

I agree, it is what the body can take to perform at an elite level.

But we aren't performing at that level, or even close to it.

If a few guys are tired or sore on game day due to increased training loads I don't think our performance will be any worse tbh. If they bring effort it will be better.

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Agree, but the problem is we are tyrying to keep pace with theose that are much fitter than us so its a huge load. Team work, ball movement etc adds greatly to what we are chasing. On a hiding to nothing until we change.

 

[woosha24]

If a few guys are tired or sore on game day due to increased training loads I don't think our performance will be any worse tbh. If they bring effort it will be better.

On SM-G986B using BigFooty.com mobile app

Counterpoint to this though - didnt Melbourne win a premiership in part due to the trainers telling the players to "stop being such a little b*tch"?

I could have sworn in Melbourne's flag docco there was something in there about how the players werent initially willing to work through stuff that made them uncomfortable during training (eg: minor niggles, stitches from running, general soreness) and they introduced, for want of a better term, a "harden up" mentality to get them to give just that little bit more of themselves?

Maybe we need something like that down our way? Im not saying we run guys like Shuey and Yeo into the ground in search of improvement, but I think there are more than a couple of guys running around who could be asked to do more?

 

[CoastersFlag No.5]

Get the best available with our picks. Ban trades of our early picks.

 

[Avalor]

Counterpoint to this though - didnt Melbourne win a premiership in part due to the trainers telling the players to "stop being such a little b*tch"?

I could have sworn in Melbourne's flag docco there was something in there about how the players werent initially willing to work through stuff that made them uncomfortable during training (eg: minor niggles, stitches from running, general soreness) and they introduced, for want of a better term, a "harden up" mentality to get them to give just that little bit more of themselves?

Maybe we need something like that down our way? Im not saying we run guys like Shuey and Yeo into the ground in search of improvement, but I think there are more than a couple of guys running around who could be asked to do more?

You are correct. I remember it myself. There are a few in our team that could certainly harden up - I don't usually like naming players, so won't, but there is one that at any hint of a blow, cut or knock, will head to the bench. This same player also doesn't want to do the hard yards preseason, or the boot camp. I am sure you can figure out who I am referring to. He could be a super player if he would only toughen up a bit.

 

[timeforanother22]

You are correct. I remember it myself. There are a few in our team that could certainly harden up - I don't usually like naming players, so won't, but there is one that at any hint of a blow, cut or knock, will head to the bench. This same player also doesn't want to do the hard yards preseason, or the boot camp. I am sure you can figure out who I am referring to. He could be a super player if he would only toughen up a bit.

This is the problem, and the reason that Simpson is responsible. As spectators we have been saying for three years, the players aren’t fit enough. Yet you can opt out of training? Out of boot camps?
This is not holding the players to a standard, or rewarding those that go above and beyond.
Simmos theory that everything can be solved with a BBQ and a beer doesn’t cut it at this level. This is not country football!

 

[Goroyals22]

You are correct. I remember it myself. There are a few in our team that could certainly harden up - I don't usually like naming players, so won't, but there is one that at any hint of a blow, cut or knock, will head to the bench. This same player also doesn't want to do the hard yards preseason, or the boot camp. I am sure you can figure out who I am referring to. He could be a super player if he would only toughen up a bit.

No its not racist to name Liam Ryan as a lazy footballer.. went off as if shot then as he came back on there was a chance for a goal so 80 metres full tilt he went across the 50 metre arc to receive the ball but he wasn’t used…
Another example of one eagle player who picks and chooses when he will put an effort in and when wont . 2018 it was his strong point… now? Not so much.
Even 2020 in the hub and that season he was a standout player. Now? Its gone again.

 

[sregit]

I
Unfortunately inseason is largely recovery after each game and maintenance of any fitness. It's all the body can take. Pre-season is the gift of fitness and santa didnt come to many including the idiot darling. Now is the time to build the S&C-Science team to plan now for the pre season. I would look at a dietition for the fat boys club as well.

It takes time to find and recruit good people. We have to start this week.

Season for WC is over, however,should not be wasted. As a Supporter of a club that is also in decline I can see that a rebuild/ refresh is required. The current situation the Eagles find themselves in has come a lot quicker than expected but will force the club to acknowledge where they’re at and the hard task ahead. A club like Richmond will have to also rebuild to win a flag again but are fooling themselves that the current list is capable of contending. This year for WC should be to identify youth that can help you contend in 4 to 5 years and get games into them. Find out those players that can be part of the rebuild and those who need to be moved on. Declining champions still need to be treated with dignity.

Yes it seems like a massive task but if managed properly will be apparent by years end.
Good management and recruiting is required. Staying calm and using good judgement will see you competitive sooner,rather than later. It’s never as bad as seems. Good management is the way out, no panicking or finger Ponting. Richmond were s**t for 30 years because our management were gutless. WC have been a well managed club and will get it right. There are no short cuts in doing successful rebuilds. Good luck.

 

[KERRPOW]

You are correct. I remember it myself. There are a few in our team that could certainly harden up - I don't usually like naming players, so won't, but there is one that at any hint of a blow, cut or knock, will head to the bench. This same player also doesn't want to do the hard yards preseason, or the boot camp. I am sure you can figure out who I am referring to. He could be a super player if he would only toughen up a bit.

I'll name one.

LIAM RYAN

 

[The Dodger]

Just looking at our 2010 player list, we had a bunch of players on that list to go on and be gun players after that,

Lecras, Priddis, NN , Butler, Sheppard, Shuey, Emac, JK, Hurn, Schofield, Rosa, masten*

*Yeh i know, but he won a flag.

Maybe back then, we didn't see how good those players would go on to be, but our current list....pfft...Oscar? anyone else?

Hmm looking at that list though:

NN, Shep, Shuey, JK & Masten we got for being crap the previous few years leading to that year as well as losing a once in a generation talent like Judd.
So for instance the comparison could be more to our list at the end of 2008 as the way I saw it we were actually worse that year (than 2010) its just that there was Melbourne to cushion the fall.
2008 roster below + Mitch Brown who I think was injured that year with players struck out that weren't there by 2010. At which point we also added Gaff & Darling for 2011. Age is what they were in 2010.

Player	Pos.	Age	Height	Weight	Hometown
Steven Armstrong		26	5'11"	176
Michael Braun		32	5'9"	163
Sam Butler		24	6'1"	190
Dean Cox		29	6'8"	229
Ryan Davis		21	6'2"	187
Brad Ebert		20	6'2"	196
Andrew Embley		29	6'2"	201
Chad Fletcher		31	5'10"	176
Darren Glass		29	6'3"	205
Jaymie Graham		27	6'5"	216
Ashley Hansen		27	6'6"	207
Tim Houlihan		21	6'2"	174
Adam Hunter		29	6'3"	203
Shannon Hurn		23	6'1"	209	Angaston, SA
Brett Jones		28	6'2"	205
Chad Jones		26	6'5"	216
Josh Kennedy		23	6'5"	227	Melbourne, VIC
Daniel Kerr		27	5'10"	176
Mark LeCras		24	6'0"	181
Quinten Lynch		27	6'3"	227
Eric Mackenzie		22	6'5"	220
Beau Maister		24	6'4"	216	Albany, WA
Chris Masten		21	5'11"	176
Ben McKinley		23	6'1"	187
Jamie McNamara		22	6'0"	192
Mark Nicoski		27	6'2"	187
Tony Notte		20	6'4"	157
Matt Priddis		25	6'0"	198
Matt Rosa		24	6'3"	185
Will Schofield		21	6'5"	216	Geelong, VIC
Mark Seaby		26	6'6"	223
Adam Selwood		26	6'2"	185
Scott Selwood		20	6'1"	187	Bendigo, VIC
Matthew Spangher		23	6'5"	212
Brent Staker		26	6'5"	216	Broken Hill, NSW
Tyson Stenglein		30	6'2"	194
Beau Waters		24	6'2"	192	Happy Valley, SA
David Wirrpanda		31	5'8"	181

So this year could be the 2008 of our bad run.

 

[Mop]

Hmm looking at that list though:

NN, Shep, Shuey, JK & Masten we got for being crap the previous few years leading to that year as well as losing a once in a generation talent like Judd.
So for instance the comparison could be more to our list at the end of 2008 as the way I saw it we were actually worse that year (than 2010) its just that there was Melbourne to cushion the fall.
2008 roster below + Mitch Brown who I think was injured that year with players struck out that weren't there by 2010. At which point we also added Gaff & Darling for 2011. Age is what they were in 2010.

Player	Pos.	Age	Height	Weight	Hometown
Steven Armstrong		26	5'11"	176
Michael Braun		32	5'9"	163
Sam Butler		24	6'1"	190
Dean Cox		29	6'8"	229
Ryan Davis		21	6'2"	187
Brad Ebert		20	6'2"	196
Andrew Embley		29	6'2"	201
Chad Fletcher		31	5'10"	176
Darren Glass		29	6'3"	205
Jaymie Graham		27	6'5"	216
Ashley Hansen		27	6'6"	207
Tim Houlihan		21	6'2"	174
Adam Hunter		29	6'3"	203
Shannon Hurn		23	6'1"	209	Angaston, SA
Brett Jones		28	6'2"	205
Chad Jones		26	6'5"	216
Josh Kennedy		23	6'5"	227	Melbourne, VIC
Daniel Kerr		27	5'10"	176
Mark LeCras		24	6'0"	181
Quinten Lynch		27	6'3"	227
Eric Mackenzie		22	6'5"	220
Beau Maister		24	6'4"	216	Albany, WA
Chris Masten		21	5'11"	176
Ben McKinley		23	6'1"	187
Jamie McNamara		22	6'0"	192
Mark Nicoski		27	6'2"	187
Tony Notte		20	6'4"	157
Matt Priddis		25	6'0"	198
Matt Rosa		24	6'3"	185
Will Schofield		21	6'5"	216	Geelong, VIC
Mark Seaby		26	6'6"	223
Adam Selwood		26	6'2"	185
Scott Selwood		20	6'1"	187	Bendigo, VIC
Matthew Spangher		23	6'5"	212
Brent Staker		26	6'5"	216	Broken Hill, NSW
Tyson Stenglein		30	6'2"	194
Beau Waters		24	6'2"	192	Happy Valley, SA
David Wirrpanda		31	5'8"	181

So this year could be the 2008 of our bad run.

Uhh, it’s a nice table, but JK is not from Melbourne - we just got him from Melbourne.
Wash away that insult!

 

[ep2018]

Get the best available with our picks. Ban trades of our early picks.

If we had pick 1 or pick 2 I'd be open to trade it for example pick 6 and pick 12.

Elijah Hewitt at 6 and a slider at 12.

 

[daddy_4_eyes]

If we had pick 1 or pick 2 I'd be open to trade it for example pick 6 and pick 12.

Elijah Hewitt at 6 and a slider at 12.

Getting hung up on Hewitt and at the same time expecting him to slide to #6 seems a contradiction.

Either he's a step down from the top 5, or the top 6 is so even its unrealistic to reliably expect him to be available at #6.

 

[ep2018]

Getting hung up on Hewitt and at the same time expecting him to slide to #6 seems a contradiction.

Either he's a step down from the top 5, or the top 6 is so even there's its unrealistic to reliably expect him to be available at #6.

Not sure if he'll slide or not, it was just an example. Would rather two picks inside (or just outside) the top 10 than just pick 1 or pick 2.

 

[Schtinker]

If we had pick 1 or pick 2 I'd be open to trade it for example pick 6 and pick 12.

Elijah Hewitt at 6 and a slider at 12.

MMmm Sliders



Rohan Likes this

 

[ep2018]

MMmm Sliders

View attachment 1390162

Rohan Likes this

View attachment 1390163

He needs to slide right out the front door and never come back. Can we hire a decent recruiter pls

 

[The Dodger]

Uhh, it’s a nice table, but JK is not from Melbourne - we just got him from Melbourne.
Wash away that insult!

Haha didn't notice that. I got the list off a site and was more interested with names and age at time.

 

[southcoast]

He needs to slide right out the front door and never come back. Can we hire a decent recruiter pls

Tis an interesting comment of yours (not having a crack at you either)

Happened to pick up ABC Sportstalk on Saturday and Sunday morning a both shows said WCE have a good draft record. Was interesting as some on here, who have opinions I rate, see it otherwise.

Both shows were a little ambivalent about our trading prowess.

So went back and had a look at 2018 team. Traded in were Vardy, Cripps, Jetta, Yeo, Kennedy & Redden. Six in total.

2006 team - Chick, Stenglein and Armstrong. Three in total.