Opinion The President

[40yearBLUE]

Perhaps you didn't read mine and missed the '' at the end of it. We all know you love to argue with anyone

As I'm sure you are aware, there is only one winner of the 'shiny cup' each year. There have been incredible sides that have missed out because of this. As great as it would be, Carlton can't win the flag every year, it's just not plausible. Being a realist yourself, I'm sure you are aware of this. Having said this, if you genuinely believe that Carlton as a whole aren't doing everything they can to be better, there is nothing no point continuing this discussion because there is nothing I can say that will make any difference. The relevant people don't go to 'work' everyday happy to finish 10th etc. Just because you have different viewpoints to that of the club's, doesn't mean you can't continue to support the players. I doubt you would find one supporter that is happy with every single decision the club makes but they still support them.

If you don't agree with the board members, fair enough. I would hate to think that means you'd stop cheering on the lads though

Yes you are correct, I did miss the wink. My apologies.

I am sure the decisions that Matho is having Sticks announce are made with Matho genuinely believing that they are the way to go. No doubt about that, no argument. My beef is that no amount of money warrants unelected people having undue say over the direction of the club, and no amount of money or success (including flags) warrants acting unethically. We IMO we still display the same signs that became evident during the last era of disgrace, that is, faceless moneymen calling the shots, lack of values as displayed when contracts are not honoured (lets face it, we lampoon or pity clubs like Melb that display these traits yet think its just us being who we once were when we do it, both are signs that management dont know what they are doing and are reacting to outside influences).

And no, sadly, I cant cheer us on to any form of success until the current board is gone and we start showing signs of reform. To do so would be to condone the actions I so vehemently abhor as each success tacitly endorse those decisions. I enjoy watching them play, but at the end of a game win lose or draw I now find myself detached, neither happy nor unhappy. I would rather return to being wildly ecstatic with a win and having my week ruined with a loss, but I fear that wont happen very soon. How long you think before Matho starts courting Roos and MM gets the bullet? Oh wait.......

 

[BLUEALLTHRU]

Yes you are correct, I did miss the wink. My apologies.

I am sure the decisions that Matho is having Sticks announce are made with Matho genuinely believing that they are the way to go. No doubt about that, no argument. My beef is that no amount of money warrants unelected people having undue say over the direction of the club, and no amount of money or success (including flags) warrants acting unethically. We IMO we still display the same signs that became evident during the last era of disgrace, that is, faceless moneymen calling the shots, lack of values as displayed when contracts are not honoured (lets face it, we lampoon or pity clubs like Melb that display these traits yet think its just us being who we once were when we do it, both are signs that management dont know what they are doing and are reacting to outside influences).

And no, sadly, I cant cheer us on to any form of success until the current board is gone and we start showing signs of reform. To do so would be to condone the actions I so vehemently abhor as each success tacitly endorse those decisions. I enjoy watching them play, but at the end of a game win lose or draw I now find myself detached, neither happy nor unhappy. I would rather return to being wildly ecstatic with a win and having my week ruined with a loss, but I fear that wont happen very soon. How long you think before Matho starts courting Roos and MM gets the bullet? Oh wait.......

40YB I like that you were once a very passionate supporter of the club but mo matter what has happened the club and supporters must move on and this means you too!

You are sounding very much like a typical Tigers supporter who as we all know eat their young.

Mate we all have our pissed off times with the club but you are continually posting on the negative and if you look hard enough I would suggest there are quite alot of positives that you are overlooking.
I have loved this club for 40 years and will continue to do so,your comments do not come across as supportive.

 

[40yearBLUE]

40YB I like that you were once a very passionate supporter of the club but mo matter what has happened the club and supporters must move on and this means you too!

You are sounding very much like a typical Tigers supporter who as we all know eat their young.

Mate we all have our pissed off times with the club but you are continually posting on the negative and if you look hard enough I would suggest there are quite alot of positives that you are overlooking.
I have loved this club for 40 years and will continue to do so,your comments do not come across as supportive.

I am not a supporter at the moment. I am a barracker. I am on record as saying only members are supporters the rest are barrackers. And I find barracking difficult too. I still get frustrated by poor umpiring against us, I still get exited by great passages of play. But I am certainly not a supporter.

And for what its worth, the Tigers have not sacked a coach since the 80's. There is a huge difference between a sacking, ie terminating a valid contract without good cause, and not renewing, which is the case with Frawley and Wallets. In that time we have sacked 2. And learned nothing in between.

 

[Dramoth]

All nice sentiments in there, lot of motherhood stuff. But tell me, what does the jumper stand for now? See if you can come up with just one thing. Its a brand and nothing more. But give it a go. I tried. I started with loyalty. Nup. Strength. Nup. Integrity. Nup. Honesty. Nup.

The jumper still stands for what it has always stood for in the eyes of the true believers. If the jumper doesnt stand for loyalty, then we will be trading Kreuzer to GWS for pick one this year... and Murphy to the Bears for what ever their first round pick is and Gibbs to Adelaide for their first round pick. And next year, we will be trading out more stars for first rounds picks because we dont have any loyalty.

Wallsy got shafted by the club in 89... but do you ever hear him say a bad thing about the club? Jezza got shafted by the club a couple of times. But his heart still bleeds blue. There are other ex-Carlton players who got traded so that we could go on to win premierships in the 70s and 80s... you dont hear them bitching about the lack of loyalty from the club.

Loyalty to Carlton... always... and if we werent loyal, why would they hang around?

Strength... the club has always had the strength to make the hard decisions... chasing after Brass Arse back in the 60s, all the hard work that goes in to getting in top named players to the club back in the 80s and 90s... often at the expense of our draft... but we did use that strength to make the decisions.

Integrity... for a while back in the 2000's our integrity was shot to shit thanks to Big Jack Elliott and Collins and a few other power brokers who thought that slipping our star players a big pile of wedge under the table was still the way to do things. We are slowly building back up our integrity, but its shocking that Essendon* and Melbourne are reputed to have higher integrity than we do... when they have been pinged for exactly the same thing that we got done for back in 2002. We always get abused of being cheats by the Essendon* supporters when they won a ****ing grand final by cheating the salary cap. So hows their integrity?

Honesty... yup... we have rebuilt that honesty... it has taken a few years, but we are honest now in everything we do. If you cant see that, then I suggest you get your eyes checked and go and grab a seeing eye dog from the royal society for the blind.

Edit: All we really have left with the jumper is nostalgia, history. And even some of that is tarnished somewhat by the cheating years. I think you can reasonably assume one possibly 2 of the flags are tarnished by being won with a little if not a lot of cheating, certainly 95.

So that is what the jumper stands for to many.....cheats.

yeah yeah yeah... only Carlton cheats... guess what... we dont ****ing cheat any more. And 95 is a clean premiership... Evans himself... a Carlton hating Essendon* supporter and his lackey Wayne Jackson cleared us... at the same time that they announced that 93 was actually won by Essendon* while they were cheating the salary cap and draft tampering. We had the AFL crawling up our arse going over our books... if we had cheated in 95, dont you think that they would have found something?

What other of our flags was won by cheating? come on... you're the one spouting all this bullshit. Which one of our flags prior to 95 was won by cheating?

Not a ****ing one of them... before that, we used the trading rules to buy and sell players to build premiership teams. And it was all perfectly legal. We recruited players from around the country... chipping in front of other clubs... while they were doing the same thing to us.

Then the AFL turned around and introduced the draft to even the playing field... we didnt quite catch on to that game until late. The AFL also changed the rules for Father/Son picks which allowed Essendon* to pick up Lloyd instead of him being picked up by us on a F/S pick because his dad hadnt played 50 games for us... with that being the new minimum limit required for F/S picks.

We didnt adapt to the new draft rules for a long while because we had a dinosaur as our president who was stuck in the old ways of buy the players from other clubs using our draft picks and good players. And in the end, that and the under the table payments by Jack and his buddies killed us.

 

[happydude]

What other of our flags was won by cheating? come on... you're the one spouting all this bullshit. Which one of our flags prior to 95 was won by cheating?

I have read someting about one of our first few flags around 1910 or so involved some cheating or match fixing.

I know not 1910 itself as we lost that to collingwood.

 

[Dramoth]

I have read someting about one of our first few flags around 1910 or so involved some cheating or match fixing.

I know not 1910 itself as we lost that to collingwood.

The scandal broke prior to the 1910 semi-final when 3 players were suspended for accepting bribes.

Doug Fraser and the Bribery Scandal of 1910

 

[BlueBelle]

I am not a supporter at the moment. I am a barracker. I am on record as saying only members are supporters the rest are barrackers. And I find barracking difficult too. I still get frustrated by poor umpiring against us, I still get exited by great passages of play. But I am certainly not a supporter.

And for what its worth, the Tigers have not sacked a coach since the 80's. There is a huge difference between a sacking, ie terminating a valid contract without good cause, and not renewing, which is the case with Frawley and Wallets. In that time we have sacked 2. And learned nothing in between.

Imagine if you were a Melbourne supporter

 

[Dramoth]

Imagine if you were a Melbourne supporter

I wish he was a Melbourne supporter.

 

[40yearBLUE]

Imagine if you were a Melbourne supporter

Well yes, it could be worse.

 

[happydude]

Maybe we cheated in 79 and 40yb was right there and he saw the ball was out

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Greg Williams claimed a goal vs West Coast when the ball came off the Eagles player.

 

[Jatz]

Yes you are correct, I did miss the wink. My apologies.

I am sure the decisions that Matho is having Sticks announce are made with Matho genuinely believing that they are the way to go. No doubt about that, no argument. My beef is that no amount of money warrants unelected people having undue say over the direction of the club, and no amount of money or success (including flags) warrants acting unethically. We IMO we still display the same signs that became evident during the last era of disgrace, that is, faceless moneymen calling the shots, lack of values as displayed when contracts are not honoured (lets face it, we lampoon or pity clubs like Melb that display these traits yet think its just us being who we once were when we do it, both are signs that management dont know what they are doing and are reacting to outside influences).

And no, sadly, I cant cheer us on to any form of success until the current board is gone and we start showing signs of reform. To do so would be to condone the actions I so vehemently abhor as each success tacitly endorse those decisions. I enjoy watching them play, but at the end of a game win lose or draw I now find myself detached, neither happy nor unhappy. I would rather return to being wildly ecstatic with a win and having my week ruined with a loss, but I fear that wont happen very soon. How long you think before Matho starts courting Roos and MM gets the bullet? Oh wait.......

Fair enough. Genuinely, good on you for standing by your convictions

How would you feel if Carlton won a premiership in their current state?

 

[Azul]

Greg Williams claimed a goal vs West Coast when the ball came off the Eagles player.

Swings and roundabouts. Michael Long won a Norm Smith after SOS touched it.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Swings and roundabouts. Michael Long won a Norm Smith after SOS touched it.

That's a matter for the sex crimes unit I guess.

 

[40yearBLUE]

Fair enough. Genuinely, good on you for standing by your convictions

How would you feel if Carlton won a premiership in their current state?

That's a very good question. I am sure it would result in me having to re-evaluate my values with regard to football. Most would describe me as a naive idealist, but I always find it sad when dishonourable actions are rewarded, but I am not so blinkered to know that it happens very often in human endeavour.

But from here looking forward (as opposed to post flag looking back) I would say that should the current set up deliver a flag (remember I currently strongly believe it will not) then I also warn not to be surprised if sometime a little further down the track the club is yet again embroiled in turmoil and scandal. Remember, the reason Elliot was able to command the power he ultimately wielded, and to go about his actions unchallenged for so long, was because the club was successful despite his autocratic style and (in hindsight) obvious corruption.

IMO people with lots of money, especially those that inherit it or start from a position of privilege rather than build it themselves from humble beginnings are usually deeply flawed or removed from the kinds of ethics required to run a membership based organisation. Even those that build it themselves lose touch with the realities of the majority if they have been wealthy for some time. Just my opinion, but I think well founded (my best friend married into a very wealthy family, and his description was that he had never met a bigger bunch of scumbags, who's primary concern in life was how to get even more money). I would describe myself as a self employed worker, and dont begrudge people making themselves wealthy (wealth is relative, I am not a millionaire but have been very close a number of times and I consider myself to be very wealthy and have given most of it away) but I have little time or respect for the inheritors of wealth, those I know I find to be arrogant, ungrateful and sense they feel some superiority. Wealth never ever confers superiority, it is a very poor measure that we humans use.

And these are the people that are pulling the strings at our club, the uber wealthy that have long lost any humility, or the inheritors of wealth that probably never had any.

And should these people be rewarded then I believe the club is ultimately doomed.

 

[BLUEALLTHRU]

I am not a supporter at the moment. I am a barracker. I am on record as saying only members are supporters the rest are barrackers. And I find barracking difficult too. I still get frustrated by poor umpiring against us, I still get exited by great passages of play. But I am certainly not a supporter.

And for what its worth, the Tigers have not sacked a coach since the 80's. There is a huge difference between a sacking, ie terminating a valid contract without good cause, and not renewing, which is the case with Frawley and Wallets. In that time we have sacked 2. And learned nothing in between.

If you get a chance sit in a predominately Richmond area during a game that they are losing you will then see what I mean.

 

[40yearBLUE]

If you get a chance sit in a predominately Richmond area during a game that they are losing you will then see what I mean.

I dont judge a club by the calibre of its rabid fans, all clubs have them, I judge based on the way the club is run (to the extent that we are informed by the bias of the media we have). And on that score, the tigers have come a long way whilst we have regressed.

 

[C4[2]Yo`DooR]

Is this the thread where we endorse a vote for Mugabe?

 

[BluStreak]

Is this the thread where we endorse a vote for Mugabe?

Ummm Rules with an iron fist. All kow tow to him. Imposes himself on every aspect of life. Umm maybe.

 

[Azul]

Is this the thread where we endorse a vote for Mugabe?

No, I believe you're looking for the Leave Jab Watson alone thread.

 

[Aphrodite]

LINK

Carlton President Stephen Kernahan will lead the Club through its historic 150th year after the Board officially ratified his tenure.

Kernahan will step down at the end of 2014, his likely successor is expected to be either Ryan Trainor or Mark LoGiudice, who were voted as joint Vice Presidents at tonight’s Board meeting, along with Carlton Patron Jeanne Pratt.

LINK

 

[BlueMania]

Many thanks to the great man for his service. Hope he doesn't disappear though

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Do Trainor or LoGiudice strike anybody as the heir apparent and someone speaking on behalf of the club? Do we have a preference?

 

[Jeremias]

Do Trainor or LoGiudice strike anybody as the heir apparent and someone speaking on behalf of the club? Do we have a preference?

Anyone but Jeanne Pratt will do me just fine.

 

[The_Wookie]

Maybe hes going to come back and line up at full forward since the club doesnt seem all that interested in getting key forwards.