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The Problem At Melbourne

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The Shev

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Boy, there are a few. On field, off field, players, coaches, members, everything. The club needs to change if we want to survive and eventually become successful and win another premiership.

Let's start off the field. We are financially insecure despite apparently doing alright this year. We are not making any money, just losing a bit. Our board room is pretty ****e, I mean we have a guy called Gabriel Szondy who doesn't even wanna be there and the rest of the board aren't willing to step up or make some bold decisions. I hope they are not content with just beating the Gutnick clan, because that is in the past and they actually need to worry about the club and look to the future.

Now look at Collingwood if they want an example. Eddie McGuire came in and turned the club around, every aspect of it and made it a success. He is passionate and proud of his club, promotes it well, deals well and will win a premiership very soon, unfortunately. We need to do the same. Someone needs to step up and be a leader and take this club and turn it in to a success. I know one person who could do the job and that is Garry Lyon. Whether he is good enough on the business side of things is a different story, but he needs to get involved and help the club. Whether it is as a board member or the coach, he has to help.

Now lets take a look at the team list. In 2000/2001 it used to be strong. A little young but it had the potential there to do something good. But over the last couple of years we have just ruined it. We've lost big stars, leaders, and got pretty much no-one in return. Whether it's been a trade, retirement or a failure to sign a contract, we've lost Farmer, Simmonds, Woewodin, Schwarz, Ingerson, Powell, Leoncelli, Febey and Bishop. Look through that list. There are leaders and role models, experienced campaigners, key talls, gutsy smalls & classy players. Now what have we got in return? A couple of draft picks (which haven't stepped up to the plate yet) Ellis, Vardy, Bizzell, Heffernan and Moorcroft. Ellis isn't good enough and is injured anyway, Vardy is good but unfortunately injured, Bizzell has been nothing short of great, Heffernan is struggling and Moorcroft if pretty much done. The draft picks whoever they were have not made a name for themselves unlike a lot of other youngsters in the league who are developing. So recruiting has been very average, another negative on the board.

The actual team list is now **** weak. It lacks experience, toughness and class to be a threat. Let's look through the list. We have two great ruckmen, White and Jolly. However, White is not at the highest level of a Primus, King or Darcy and that is where he could and should be. You can out it down to injury but to me that's just an excuse. Now Jolly is playing great and he could do something good in the future. Jamar is a capable back up. So the ruck division is fine. And it should be after we traded Troy Simmonds off to Freo.

The on-ball department has been weakened. Woewodin and Powell were two massive losses. They were the in-and-under ball winers that every team needs, and we lost both of them. We still have two classy guns in Yze and Johnstone but they haven't stepped up this year. Heffernan has come along and is a skillful player, but not the tough replacement we needed. Godfrey has balls and tries hard but lacks the class. McDonald also tries hard and gets a load of tackles but isn't skillful enough either. Leoncelli looked past it and is now retired. Rigoni has grat strength but is getting older and injuries could keep him away. Thompson is a bull and should be starting every week but isn't. Whelan can play there a bit, and he gives his best, has nice pace and skill, but is no superstar. Either is Ward or Brown who can both play a bit on the ball. Bruce is very classy but not tough enough. Walsh can play on ball and should do it a bit more often, because he is a little terrier. Then we have the young Armstrong, another of the skillful/not tough players. I think that covers everyone that plays on ball. So as you can so we've got Godfrey and McDonald who try their best but aren't good enough, Rigoni and Thompson who have the strength but don't play enough and Walsh who is a backman. The rest are just fast, skillful on-ballers and struggle without a tough support cast.

Down back, we lack key talls and experienced ones. Nicholson is no good, he must go. Ellis when fit just scrapes in but he won't solve our problems. Miller does alright and he is still young, Ferguson hasn't impressed me yet and is a little small, Broadbridge is a strange one because he does alright when he plays, but I don't know if he is the answer either. Now we have Chris Lamb who looked like the solution last year, but he has all of a sudden been dropped this year and will probably be traded by our ignorant board. He should be playing at full back and Miller should be centre half back. They are the future, but in Lamb's case it's not happening. The small defenders are Ward, Walsh, Whelan, Brown and Bizzell. The W's and Brown are all small, fast players and only one of them is really a tough nut. They can be good at times but sometimes they are not. They need to provide us wth more run and help out in the midfield. As for Bizzell, what a champion. He has been awesome but unfortunately has had to play as a tall this year, which has been hard for him. What we need is a classy tall defender that we can rely on. The likes of Fletcher, Leppitsch, Michael, Wellman, Clement, etc... are the type of players that are going to win you premierships. Now Nicholson or Ellis. If we can sign as great defender, stick Lamb in the team then it will help our problems a lot.

Up forward, it's a case of having the potential but not knowing how to use it. I don't know who the forward coach is, but he must get the sack. The forward set-up is a rabble. We have the best bloody forward in the league, a monster who can take a strong mark, kick a long goal and burst through any pack. But we constantly find ourselves taking his space, always looking for him even when he isn't the right option (which makes it easier to defend him) and feeding him with rubbish passes that don't give him a chance. We must leave the entire 50 for him to lead in to, stick a crumber in like Armstong next to him, another marking forward who doesn't take his space (Vardy is the best at that position but is injured). Stick a tall player at centre-half forward but make sure they stay the hell out of Neita's way and chuck the versatile Robbo and Green on the flanks. Once that is done, don't always look for Neitz, it is too predictable.

So what does the team need? A key centre half back or centre half forward (if we could use White in a deal to snag an experience tall that would be great), we need some tough midfielders, we need new board members and...

Now in to the coaches box. Sack Neale Daniher. His time is over at the club. He has been here 6 years without a flag and doesn't look like getting one in the next 4 years, which will equal 10 eyars without the flag. That's far too long, get rid of him and bring in someone fresh. Garry Lyon or Terry Wallace are the two I want. I appreciate what Neale has done, but the team is too inconsistant and is now too weak, so it's time to let someone else have a try.

Just had to get that off my chest.
 
Originally posted by The Shev

Whether it's been a trade, retirement or a failure to sign a contract, we've lost Farmer, Simmonds, Woewodin, Schwarz, Ingerson, Powell, Leoncelli, Febey and Bishop. Look through that list. There are leaders and role models, experienced campaigners, key talls, gutsy smalls & classy players. Now what have we got in return? A couple of draft picks (which haven't stepped up to the plate yet) Ellis, Vardy, Bizzell, Heffernan and Moorcroft. Ellis isn't good enough and is injured anyway, Vardy is good but unfortunately injured, Bizzell has been nothing short of great, Heffernan is struggling and Moorcroft if pretty much done. The draft picks whoever they were have not made a name for themselves unlike a lot of other youngsters in the league who are developing. So recruiting has been very average, another negative on the board.
Have to disagree here.

Farmer, Ingerson, Schwarz, Powell, Febey and Leoncelli all chose to leave. Nothing we can do about that.

Simmonds was a hack at Melbourne, but to his credit he has turned his career around at Fremantle. Bishop will never be a star, and Woewodin has been average at Collingwood. Remember he was on 500k a year, and went missing in the big matches. He still does, just look at Saturday's match.

Now, to the players we got 'in':

Bizzell has been outstanding. Recruit of the century. Ellis was very good until he got injured. People are forgetting about his 2002, where he was consistent across CHB. Vardy had a good 2002, but has suffered injuries this year. Heffernan has been superb, what are you talking about? He struggled in the first 2 rounds maybe, but since then he has been fantastic. He looks set for a Top 3-5 finish in the B&F. Moorcroft has done nothing.

As for the draft picks, you can't expect Rogers or Bell to dominate straight away.
 
Well maybe it is not Melbourne's fault for Schwarz, Farmer, Ingerson, Powell, Febey and leoncelli leaving, but we haven't replaced them adequately yet and that is what is hurting.

Simmonds did alright at Melbourne, but not really arguing his departure because we have many good ruckmen. Bishop is no superstar but is doing a good solid job at Port. Woewodin is doing good at Collingwood. Maybe we didn't know what we had until he was gone, coz he was an in-and-under player who worked hard and won the ball for the likes of Yze, Johnno and Bruce to finish it off. Same as Steven Powell, anothet tough nut that we lost and haven't replaced.

Bizzell has been great. Ellis has done alright but he is not the type of player that will win you a premiership. Vardy we both agree on, same as Moorcroft. On Heffernan IMO I don't think he has shone for the Dees yet. Some games and patches he has, but it hasn't been a consistant performance by him I don't think. Give him time and he will be great though.
 
I know our backline is **** and do with all the help they can get, but I'd feel much safer with Miller being as far away from the defensive 50 as possible thanks very much.

As for the Chris Lamb Conspiracy that's one that will always mystify me. He was finally playing good football at the end of last year and has been completely shafted this season. Yes, he was slaughtered in that first quarter against Adelaide but how many of our players haven't been utterly useless at some point of the season or another? He might not be a star in the making but he's certainly capable enough to hold a spot in a team as amazingly crap as ours.

How I would love a Seecamp, Ingerson or Shanahan back now. Matthew Collins would do nicely too.
 

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Re: Re: The Problem At Melbourne

Originally posted by lamby29


Simmonds was a hack at Melbourne, but to his credit he has turned his career around at Fremantle. Bishop will never be a star, and Woewodin has been average at Collingwood. Remember he was on 500k a year, and went missing in the big matches. He still does, just look at Saturday's match.


Gotta disagree here! Snake was never a hack at Melbourne. But you have to trade players with value to get anything decent.

I've said before Woey was pretty good for us but outside of his Brownlow year, he simply wasn't worth 500,000 a year.

I miss Bish! :( Loved his speccies & pace for his size. Has never been the best in contested situation but he was a favourite of mine. Don't really think we've lost much in that trade.
 
Originally posted by The Shev
Woewodin is doing good at Collingwood. Maybe we didn't know what we had until he was gone, coz he was an in-and-under player who worked hard and won the ball for the likes of Yze, Johnno and Bruce to finish it off. Same as Steven Powell, anothet tough nut that we lost and haven't replaced.


I never considered Woey a tough nut. His left foot is still deadly but he's pretty limited really.

Powell is tough but his skills let him down. I'd prefer Powelly to Woey but only just.

Tough nut's are what we need, badly!
 
bizzel has been great

nicholson ahs been too

he may not be in the league of wakelin, fletcher and mal michael

but he is reliabe most of the time and gets the job done

he played a great game on lloyd who is the best full forward in the league and really kept him to 1 goal

2 came from very sus free kicks

he also kept rocca so quite on queens b'day that he came off and molloy got hammered by him too so was also forced to come off

ellis well hes ok but at the moment fergeson and miller and lamb need time in defense

along with bizzel and nicholson who add that touch of reliablity

our running defense is quite good and needs no adding too
i say that because other things need help first

this year we aimed for height in the draft and got fergeson carrol and smith and got miller the previous year

we need pace in the midfield this year

we need a draft year like 2000 coz i think we all know how good that year was

also we cant trade robbo :D
 
just on Aaron Rogers.

I asked about him 4 or so months ago and Dees fan's were non-committal.

Now most of the season has been played out what are the clubs plans for him??

Will he be on the list in 2004?? Do they see abig future for him, or a possible??
 
Originally posted by Black Thunder
just on Aaron Rogers.

I asked about him 4 or so months ago and Dees fan's were non-committal.

Now most of the season has been played out what are the clubs plans for him??

Will he be on the list in 2004?? Do they see abig future for him, or a possible??

A bit hard to say really. A month back I was thinking he'd be a certain delisting. However he finally broke back into the Sandy seniors last weekend & played well at CHB apparently. If he can manage a strong finals campagin at Sandringham then he'd be a rough chance to be kept on. Perhaps on a rookie list, like Michael Clark, provided he qualifies.

Aaron's been given a decent crack at Melbourne, he played in both of our Wizard cup games but failed to impress. He struggled so badly at Sandringham mid season that he was even tried in the ruck in short bursts :eek: :confused: . He took a fair while to regain his place in the Sandringham firsts (even rookie lister Dale Carson has gone past him imo & prob kept him out a bit longer). Admittedly Sandy firsts are pretty strong but the VFL reserves comp is a joke to be honest.

With Melbourne struggling so badly I reckon if he was ever gonna crack a senior game, it would've been this season. We've lacked key position strength all season. Aaron is a dead-set confidence player I reckon. With a bit of luck & hard work, he might make an AFL player yet & as long as he has a red hot go while he's here he'll be given every chance. He's gotta keep his head up, I've seen it drop a few times this year.
 
I hope Aaron does go on and have a good career, at some club. He's got too much talent not too.

I always thought he played his best footy at CHB in his junior days, but he was always played as a FF.

He is definetaly a confidence type of guy, and I think the Swans really did send him up the ****ter by not picking him up in the draft and keeping up with the local talent. Instead he had to go down to Melbourne and that was going to be a tough ask for him.

I also do think, however, it would be harsh on Melbourne to delist him after 2 years. He is still only 20, and few KPP make much of an impact before that age.

I remember one game we played in the juniors against his club, Heathcote, was a semi final, and we lost by about 10 goals, and I reckon if he didn't play, we would've won. He played CHB that day and the ball hardly saw our forward line because every time we went into our forward 50 he'd mark it and rebound. He must've taken at least 25 marks that day and snuffed out just about every attack we made. Clearly the best player to come from our junior competition.
 
Originally posted by Black Thunder
I hope Aaron does go on and have a good career, at some club. He's got too much talent not too.

I always thought he played his best footy at CHB in his junior days, but he was always played as a FF.

He is definetaly a confidence type of guy, and I think the Swans really did send him up the ****ter by not picking him up in the draft and keeping up with the local talent. Instead he had to go down to Melbourne and that was going to be a tough ask for him.

I also do think, however, it would be harsh on Melbourne to delist him after 2 years. He is still only 20, and few KPP make much of an impact before that age.

I remember one game we played in the juniors against his club, Heathcote, was a semi final, and we lost by about 10 goals, and I reckon if he didn't play, we would've won. He played CHB that day and the ball hardly saw our forward line because every time we went into our forward 50 he'd mark it and rebound. He must've taken at least 25 marks that day and snuffed out just about every attack we made. Clearly the best player to come from our junior competition.

I realise KPP's need time & recognise Aaron has talent but he's really struggled. He's been given opportunities & hasn't grasped them. Missing out on the Swans would've been a blow & it would seem he's still not quite over it. I reckon Aaron simply has to stand up & give his all for the remainder of this season. Leave him at CHB & see what he can do. The ball's in his court.
 

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Just drawing up some line-ups during maths class today (yeah I know :D ) and I realised that we do have a fair list when we are at full strength. This is not to say that injuries are the cause for our problems, but I realised that we still have a nice squad.

FB: Walsh - Lamb - Whelan

HB: Bizzell - Ellis - Brown

C: Heffernan - Johnstone - Bruce

HF: Robertson - Miller - Green

FF: Vardy - Neitz - Armstrong

R: White - Yze - Godfrey

INT: Jolly - Broadbridge - Thompson - McDonald

Something like that. I think that is our best starting line-up. Lamb at full back with Whelan and Walsh on either side. At centre half back is the tall, experienced and not too bad Ellis, with the great Bizzell and little Nathan Brown who has been good off the half back flank. The wings are Heffernan and Bruce, two classy midfielders capable of scoring some goals, while Johnstone is in the centre with Yze and the hard-working Godfrey. Jeff White is in the ruck as first option, but depending on form/injury/rotation it coule be Jolly too. The half forward line is potent with Miller the prime target at centre half forward and two versatile players in Green and Robertson alongside him, two who can take a mark and kick a goal. Up forward is Neitz, with the roving Armstrong on one side Vardy as the other marking option on the other side. Jolly on the bench with Broadbridge who I rate, Thompson and McDonald who are two good midfielders.

Left out is Nicholson, who I don't like. He is too slow and has no skill. Ward who isn't good enough, Ferguson who isn't strong enough yet, Williams who unfortunately finds himself too far down the line and same thing with Rigoni (although he could come in the squad very easily). So that is my preferred team at full strength with the current list, although I do want a quality tough midfielder and key position player.
 
Originally posted by lamby29
Rogers will be a Melbourne in 2004.


i hope so - or at least at some club. He's too good to be a "could-of-been"

also just checking the draft that year, the Swans didn't have a pick to 28, so you can't lay any **** on the Swans for not picking him up, because I think they woulda if he was around.
 
Originally posted by Black Thunder
also just checking the draft that year, the Swans didn't have a pick to 28, so you can't lay any **** on the Swans for not picking him up, because I think they woulda if he was around.
You're wrong here.
Sydney's pick 28 was a zone pick, meaning they could pick 1 player from a certain area around Sydney much in the same way as a father son pick.

Rogers and Roberts-Thompson were the 2 best players from the zone they could pick from, and they chose to take Roberts-Thompson over Rogers, a decision that was apparently a close one.
 

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Originally posted by The Shev
Boy, there are a few. On field, off field, players, coaches, members, everything. The club needs to change if we want to survive and eventually become successful and win another premiership.

Let's start off the field. We are financially insecure despite apparently doing alright this year. We are not making any money, just losing a bit. Our board room is pretty ****e, I mean we have a guy called Gabriel Szondy who doesn't even wanna be there and the rest of the board aren't willing to step up or make some bold decisions. I hope they are not content with just beating the Gutnick clan, because that is in the past and they actually need to worry about the club and look to the future.

Now look at Collingwood if they want an example. Eddie McGuire came in and turned the club around, every aspect of it and made it a success. He is passionate and proud of his club, promotes it well, deals well and will win a premiership very soon, unfortunately. We need to do the same. Someone needs to step up and be a leader and take this club and turn it in to a success. I know one person who could do the job and that is Garry Lyon. Whether he is good enough on the business side of things is a different story, but he needs to get involved and help the club. Whether it is as a board member or the coach, he has to help.

Now lets take a look at the team list. In 2000/2001 it used to be strong. A little young but it had the potential there to do something good. But over the last couple of years we have just ruined it. We've lost big stars, leaders, and got pretty much no-one in return. Whether it's been a trade, retirement or a failure to sign a contract, we've lost Farmer, Simmonds, Woewodin, Schwarz, Ingerson, Powell, Leoncelli, Febey and Bishop. Look through that list. There are leaders and role models, experienced campaigners, key talls, gutsy smalls & classy players. Now what have we got in return? A couple of draft picks (which haven't stepped up to the plate yet) Ellis, Vardy, Bizzell, Heffernan and Moorcroft. Ellis isn't good enough and is injured anyway, Vardy is good but unfortunately injured, Bizzell has been nothing short of great, Heffernan is struggling and Moorcroft if pretty much done. The draft picks whoever they were have not made a name for themselves unlike a lot of other youngsters in the league who are developing. So recruiting has been very average, another negative on the board.

The actual team list is now **** weak. It lacks experience, toughness and class to be a threat. Let's look through the list. We have two great ruckmen, White and Jolly. However, White is not at the highest level of a Primus, King or Darcy and that is where he could and should be. You can out it down to injury but to me that's just an excuse. Now Jolly is playing great and he could do something good in the future. Jamar is a capable back up. So the ruck division is fine. And it should be after we traded Troy Simmonds off to Freo.

The on-ball department has been weakened. Woewodin and Powell were two massive losses. They were the in-and-under ball winers that every team needs, and we lost both of them. We still have two classy guns in Yze and Johnstone but they haven't stepped up this year. Heffernan has come along and is a skillful player, but not the tough replacement we needed. Godfrey has balls and tries hard but lacks the class. McDonald also tries hard and gets a load of tackles but isn't skillful enough either. Leoncelli looked past it and is now retired. Rigoni has grat strength but is getting older and injuries could keep him away. Thompson is a bull and should be starting every week but isn't. Whelan can play there a bit, and he gives his best, has nice pace and skill, but is no superstar. Either is Ward or Brown who can both play a bit on the ball. Bruce is very classy but not tough enough. Walsh can play on ball and should do it a bit more often, because he is a little terrier. Then we have the young Armstrong, another of the skillful/not tough players. I think that covers everyone that plays on ball. So as you can so we've got Godfrey and McDonald who try their best but aren't good enough, Rigoni and Thompson who have the strength but don't play enough and Walsh who is a backman. The rest are just fast, skillful on-ballers and struggle without a tough support cast.

Down back, we lack key talls and experienced ones. Nicholson is no good, he must go. Ellis when fit just scrapes in but he won't solve our problems. Miller does alright and he is still young, Ferguson hasn't impressed me yet and is a little small, Broadbridge is a strange one because he does alright when he plays, but I don't know if he is the answer either. Now we have Chris Lamb who looked like the solution last year, but he has all of a sudden been dropped this year and will probably be traded by our ignorant board. He should be playing at full back and Miller should be centre half back. They are the future, but in Lamb's case it's not happening. The small defenders are Ward, Walsh, Whelan, Brown and Bizzell. The W's and Brown are all small, fast players and only one of them is really a tough nut. They can be good at times but sometimes they are not. They need to provide us wth more run and help out in the midfield. As for Bizzell, what a champion. He has been awesome but unfortunately has had to play as a tall this year, which has been hard for him. What we need is a classy tall defender that we can rely on. The likes of Fletcher, Leppitsch, Michael, Wellman, Clement, etc... are the type of players that are going to win you premierships. Now Nicholson or Ellis. If we can sign as great defender, stick Lamb in the team then it will help our problems a lot.

Up forward, it's a case of having the potential but not knowing how to use it. I don't know who the forward coach is, but he must get the sack. The forward set-up is a rabble. We have the best bloody forward in the league, a monster who can take a strong mark, kick a long goal and burst through any pack. But we constantly find ourselves taking his space, always looking for him even when he isn't the right option (which makes it easier to defend him) and feeding him with rubbish passes that don't give him a chance. We must leave the entire 50 for him to lead in to, stick a crumber in like Armstong next to him, another marking forward who doesn't take his space (Vardy is the best at that position but is injured). Stick a tall player at centre-half forward but make sure they stay the hell out of Neita's way and chuck the versatile Robbo and Green on the flanks. Once that is done, don't always look for Neitz, it is too predictable.

So what does the team need? A key centre half back or centre half forward (if we could use White in a deal to snag an experience tall that would be great), we need some tough midfielders, we need new board members and...

Now in to the coaches box. Sack Neale Daniher. His time is over at the club. He has been here 6 years without a flag and doesn't look like getting one in the next 4 years, which will equal 10 eyars without the flag. That's far too long, get rid of him and bring in someone fresh. Garry Lyon or Terry Wallace are the two I want. I appreciate what Neale has done, but the team is too inconsistant and is now too weak, so it's time to let someone else have a try.

Just had to get that off my chest.

Just had to quote it all, what a huge post! :D

Considered writing an article for The Flame?
 
Melbourne need to do a St Kilda and throw the next 2-3 seasons, get plenty of early\priority draft picks, pick up some decents recruits and then set up for a serious crack at the flag in 5-6 years. You do not have the list at the moment to even get close in the next 3-4 years and will simply be making up the numbers, even if you take the band aid approach and recruit the odd aged "star player" ala the Crows.
 
I don't think we should 'throw' the next two season, because we should always try to win and make the finals. But we probably should try aiming for more top 10 draft picks which can start earlier and play better than other youngsters. This year we will get 2 hopefully. If we need to trade someone to get a good draft pick, then maybe we should consider it.
 
Here's a good way to get rid of the problems at Melbourne, a good way to forget about them....

Get absolutely smashed at the Swannies game in the final round. I know I will be! :D
 

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