Discussion The Random Discussion Thread

[FQFjt]

Speak for yourself mate.. if you don't have a problem with the mysogny and objectification of a colleague in that way, you're maybe showing more of yourself than you know.
Both things were very, very ordinary.

You are making assertions without evidence, which is of course your prerogative but not exactly convincing. Very happy to agree to disagree on this one.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

People can say what they like in private. They may have personal thoughts about people or issues that they dont want made public or they may be with a group of people who think the same way. If you are recorded saying certain things and it gets in the public domain that's when you are in trouble.

So its ok to be racist as long as you pretend not to be in public?

 

[MonsterEatsPilot]

You are making assertions without evidence, which is of course your prerogative but not exactly convincing. Very happy to agree to disagree on this one.

Assertions without evidence?

The criticism of Tom Morris was that he 'outed' the female journalist by telling people she was gay when she hasn't made that public. The issue wasn't misogyny.

You've literally written it just there. You don't see an issue with the mysogny.

 

[my name was taken]

The criticism of Tom Morris was that he 'outed' the female journalist by telling people she was gay when she hasn't made that public. The issue wasn't misogyny.

While he was fired for that comment because it's a work colleague and created solid ground for fox to follow through, whether there is misogyny or not is debatable (I think there is), however his other comment suggests it's firm in his mentality. He hit the golden trifecta of marginalised people in one sentence. Man is just a campaigner

““I’m not Asian, I’m not black, I’m not a woman, I’m not gay, so don’t treat me like shit. I’m a man with a heart and I’ve got feelings. Love youse all.”

Anyway, I hear there is a football game Sunday.

On Pixel 5 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Ephemeral Hope]

I’m not hanging my hat on anything here Bill.

I just asked you to perform a mental exercise that hopefully stimulates some thought on inclusivity.

Domestic violence is a scourge, just like racism, and we should all be working towards reducing both.

one of the things many people tend to get caught up on is the idea that its possible to recognise and work to fix multiple issues at once. working on one thing doesn't mean you forget the other things

 

[SaintsSeptember]

The criticism of Tom Morris was that he 'outed' the female journalist by telling people she was gay when she hasn't made that public. The issue wasn't misogyny.

Her response:
--------------------------------------------------------
'Fortunately, I am at a place in my life where I am comfortable with who I am and I can handle something deeply personal becoming public,' she began.

'But had this happened as recently as a few years ago, it would not have been the case.

'Coming out is a process and should never be taken out of someone's hands. Nor should anyone be spoken about in such a degrading manner.'

 

[SaintsSeptember]

The point i was trying to make , is that maybe we ( society ) aren't really addressing these issues , rather we are hiding them.
We learn how to behave in a way that won't get us in trouble.

We know we can't go shopping naked....
We know we can't be drunk and stoned at work or driving .... ( OK there's work from home. ).
We know we can't say what we really think about those...... things.

We don't want people saying things that are hurtful, but at the same time how do you stop what is hidden?

 

[CursingFijian]

People can say what they like in private. They may have personal thoughts about people or issues that they dont want made public or they may be with a group of people who think the same way. If you are recorded saying certain things and it gets in the public domain that's when you are in trouble.

Home is the key battle ground where racism and domestic violence needs to be fought.

I truly feel sorry for anyone who lives under the weight of deeply racist thoughts, whether in public or private, simply because that person has closed themselves off to so much beauty in the world.

 

[jwikked]

The original owners of the land that Australia, and our football grounds were built upon are a bit different from other "small sections of society". It's not like it was suggested we put a Freemason's symbol on the guernsey.

They’re Australian, aren’t they?

 

[luca77]

They’re Australian, aren’t they?

The freemasons?

 

[FQFjt]

Assertions without evidence?

You've literally written it just there. You don't see an issue with the mysogny.

What do you think mysogyny means?

 

[FQFjt]

While he was fired for that comment because it's a work colleague and created solid ground for fox to follow through, whether there is misogyny or not is debatable (I think there is), however his other comment suggests it's firm in his mentality. He hit the golden trifecta of marginalised people in one sentence. Man is just a campaigner

““I’m not Asian, I’m not black, I’m not a woman, I’m not gay, so don’t treat me like shit. I’m a man with a heart and I’ve got feelings. Love youse all.”

Anyway, I hear there is a football game Sunday.

On Pixel 5 using BigFooty.com mobile app

Yes, this one was bad but it wasn't cited as the reason for his termination.

 

[Joffaboy]

Home is the key battle ground where racism and domestic violence needs to be fought.

I truly feel sorry for anyone who lives under the weight of deeply racist thoughts, whether in public or private, simply because that person has closed themselves off to so much beauty in the world.

I tend to believe what Sammy Shah says about racism, that everyone is racist to a certain degree, it is just how you recognise it, and deal with it.
I grew up in a deeply racist society in the 60's, I was seven when the referendum to change the constitution to recognise indigenous people as Australian citizen. We had a white Australia policy until 1973.

My dad was deeply racist toward Japanese, for understandable reasons, my mum hated everyone not white.
These influences had an affect on my formative years.
It has taken a long time for me to turn my views around. I am in my 60's and still learning.
With the Saints, so great to have our Indigenous liaison structures in place. Bringing on Aunty Katrina is an inspired move.
22% of our list is Indigenous. I never want one of them to get what Nicky or Goodes, or Eddie or Cyril copped.
We need to keep learning and at 61 I won't stop improving.

 

[MonsterEatsPilot]

What do you think mysogyny means?

An example of misogyny is violence against women, which includes domestic violence and, in its most extreme forms, misogynist terrorism and femicide. Misogyny also often operates through sexual harassment, coercion, and psychological techniques aimed at controlling women, and by legally or socially excluding women from full citizenship. In some cases, misogyny rewards women for accepting an inferior status.

Not sure what angle you're trying to play here.. pretty clearly, morris' actions against his coworker were sexual harassment. Enjoy the mental gymnastic routine.. you certainly seem to be quite flexible

 

[FQFjt]

Not sure what angle you're trying to play here.. pretty clearly, morris' actions against his coworker were sexual harassment. Enjoy the mental gymnastic routine.. you certainly seem to be quite flexible

It seems you are not keen on engaging much further, but I'd be very interested to hear what part of what he said constituted sexual harrassment (which, by the way, also has an actual meaning). As far as I can tell, the comments fall well short of mysogyny of any sort.

 

[Sun Ra]

It seems you are not keen on engaging much further, but I'd be very interested to hear what part of what he said constituted sexual harrassment (which, by the way, also has an actual meaning). As far as I can tell, the comments fall well short of mysogyny of any sort.

Maybe go and discuss this issue / stuff over at the Tom Morris thread under the Scandals category if you are interested. You may learn something or not.

 

[Ephemeral Hope]

It has taken a long time for me to turn my views around. I am in my 60's and still learning.
With the Saints, so great to have our Indigenous liaison structures in place. Bringing on Aunty Katrina is an inspired move.
22% of our list is Indigenous. I never want one of them to get what Nicky or Goodes, or Eddie or Cyril copped.
We need to keep learning and at 61 I won't stop improving.

this hits the nail on the head. as long as people genuinely have empathy and the want to keep improving we'll eventually get there. exact solutions might be hard but its not difficult to see that no one should have to put up with racism.

 

[Bill Mohr]

So its ok to be racist as long as you pretend not to be in public?

poster said this


You are drawing a very long bow there, basically implying that I am supportive of hidden or home racism. A Leading question gives your motive away. Not your best work by a long shot.

"We don't want people saying things that are hurtful, but at the same time how do you stop what is hidden?" << quoting another poster

As I said previous, it easy for people to jump on the racism bandwagon especially electronically and run with the hounds but not have the guts to step up with domestic violence and make a real difference for people who are actually being physically hurt.
If you are that concerned about racism- drop down to the nearest police station and ask a domestic violence victim whether she would rather get a comment about her ripped jeans from her abuser or whether she would like her head punched in. The answer should change your thinking.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

poster said this


You are drawing a very long bow there, basically implying that I am supportive of hidden or home racism. A Leading question gives your motive away. Not your best work by a long shot.

"We don't want people saying things that are hurtful, but at the same time how do you stop what is hidden?" << quoting another poster

As I said previous, it easy for people to jump on the racism bandwagon especially electronically and run with the hounds but not have the guts to step up with domestic violence and make a real difference for people who are actually being physically hurt.
If you are that concerned about racism- drop down to the nearest police station and ask a domestic violence victim whether she would rather get a comment about her ripped jeans from her abuser or whether she would like her head punched in. The answer should change your thinking.

I think both those quotes were me

And no , i wasn't implying that you were supportive of racism at all, I was questioning the tolerance of people's hidden attitudes so long as they don't get out in public.

Domestic violence is another example of people behaving differently in public than they do in private. People learning what they can do and say in public without getting in trouble. It still doesn't make hidden domestic violence acceptable.

Not sure why it was raised though, its not really a trade off.
It would probably be a good deal if you could get someone to stop being violent on the condition that you accepted them being racist, but its kind of nonsensical.

 

[Circus]

Yes , you certainly did stimulate thought and well done. Always a good discussion point for sure. I would like the club ( and us) to stay ahead of the pack. We have a pretty big audience out there and with King exciting crowds that audience will only get bigger. Not sure about the racism jumper for eternity but it could be swapped around to focus on the other scourge we spoke about. People like it when large organisations step out of the pack and do something good in society.

It's not a "racism jumper," the suggestion was to include an indigenous design in perpetuity on our jumper. That is not making a "racist" statement of any kind, it is anti-racist by being inclusive. The difference couldn't be greater.

 

[Bill Mohr]

It's not a "racism jumper," the suggestion was to include an indigenous design in perpetuity on our jumper. That is not making a "racist" statement of any kind, it is anti-racist by being inclusive. The difference couldn't be greater.

The whole thread is about racism. What is happening and how the it can be turned around. The idea of an aboriginal design on the jumper is to highlight the fact that St kilda is doing its best to help stamp out racism. The term "racist jumper"" was incorrectly used. It should have been "anti-racism jumper". Would that have satisfied you? Surely you would have understood what I meant.

 

[jwikked]

It's not a "racism jumper," the suggestion was to include an indigenous design in perpetuity on our jumper. That is not making a "racist" statement of any kind, it is anti-racist by being inclusive. The difference couldn't be greater.

Being inclusive isn’t anti racist. It’s irrelevant.

 

[Yawkey way]

It's not a "racism jumper," the suggestion was to include an indigenous design in perpetuity on our jumper. That is not making a "racist" statement of any kind, it is anti-racist by being inclusive. The difference couldn't be greater.

It’s about as inclusive as affirmative action, just discrimination under a different name. We already have an indigenous round which is quite a lot when you think about it. The saints jumper represents everyone who follows the club and players should be proud to wear it.

 

[Yawkey way]

So its ok to be racist as long as you pretend not to be in public?

Yes it is when you think about it, even in public there are laws to protect people from racial vilification so don’t break those and you’re fine. Everyone and every race more or less is racist to some extent some more than others, trying to control or prohibit what people can think is impossible as well us undesirable.

 

[StCicatriz]

well i am not that shocked, i still occasionally get anti-semitic comments at work and i work for government. Someone on Microsoft teams only last year told of the comment that was racist. the guy said he didn't say anything. i piped up and said he should've, as that is being complicit, he agreed.

i am sorry to hear this. thats horrible!!!!