Mega Thread The Random Thoughts Thread Part 1

[I Dont Care]

Is this because I answered that the Pen is mightier than a puny sword?

 

[El_Scorcho]

Oh Mr. Turnbull, you steam a good ham.

View attachment 47812

BACKSTORY: She bought a house in suburbia without first checking the ports available for the ISPs. No ports free.

I know you're just doing your usual thing but that's a massive failure by Turnbull to not only be presiding over one of the most useless, wasteful infrastructure projects in Australian history, but to be bullish about it to the point of taunting people on twitter.

If you move into a house in the suburbs you should be able to access broadband internet in Australia.

 

[It Just Is]

I don't know the first thing about Game of Thrones

Not for the first time it's turned out that we're pretty much the same person...

 

[raman]

I know you're just doing your usual thing but that's a massive failure by Turnbull to not only be presiding over one of the most useless, wasteful infrastructure projects in Australian history, but to be bullish about it to the point of taunting people on twitter.

I'm certainly far from a defender of the Abbot "government" but I have no problem with Turnbull's response in this instance. It's a damn good point.

I wouldn't move anywhere without checking on broadband availability first. Would you?

If you move into a house in the suburbs you should be able to access broadband internet in Australia.

There's no law that says that.

 

[Portia]

There should be.

 

[Eddie Dingle]

There should be.

Are you complaining about split ends again?

 

[Portia]

Are you complaining about split ends again?

I don't know why, sometimes I get frightened.

 

[Steve Dore]

I don't know why, sometimes I get frightened.

 

[raman]

There should be.

There won't be until after the NBN is complete. So, like, 20 years plus.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

I'm certainly far from a defender of the Abbot "government" but I have no problem with Turnbull's response in this instance. It's a damn good point.

I wouldn't move anywhere without checking on broadband availability first. Would you?

Turnbull's response is the height of arrogance. At the end of the day he is elected by the people and by extension is a public servant. His response to someone airing a genuine grievance and who is, in the broader sense, one of his constituents as a minister of the Government of Australia should not be a childish schoolyard retort. The standards of personal decency when engaging in social interaction may have descended in Parliament to the level of Neanderthal but that is no excuse to extend that lack of courtesy to the general public.

 

[raman]

Turnbull's response is the height of arrogance.

No argument there, but that doesn't make it wrong. The public apology that will inevitably follow will also not make it wrong.

The constituent's original tweet was the height of cluelessness and blind entitlement. She'd have a case against NBNCo if their website said it was available and it turned out it wasn't, but that's not what she's saying. She's saying she blundered her way into purchasing a property without first checking whether this service (which she considers essential but the law does not) was available to her.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

No argument there, but that doesn't make it wrong. The public apology that will inevitably follow will also not make it wrong.

The constituent's original tweet was the height of cluelessness and blind entitlement. She'd have a case against NBNCo if their website said it was available and it turned out it wasn't, but that's not what she's saying. She's saying she blundered her way into purchasing a property without first checking whether this service (which she considers essential but the law does not) was available to her.

It's not blind entitlement to expect what is now accepted as a basic utility, broadband internet connectivity, in a relatively urban environment. She has said there's no NBN, no cable, no ADSL2 or 1. While it is not prehistoric as such, it is ridiculous that in a first world country it is unavailable.

If this was her ideal home and had everything she wanted bar broadband then why should she not buy the house and complain to the minister responsible that there is no form of broadband connectivity? She's certainly within her rights without being ridiculed.

You stated that you have no problem with Turnbull's response but agree that it is the height of arrogance. If you think that a minister of the Government of Australia responding to a member of the public in that way is ok, then we have a fundamental difference of opinion that won't be resolved.

 

[Steve Dore]

Turnbull's response is the height of arrogance. ......

Well he did invent the internet.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

Well he did invent the internet.

You want internet? Turnbull the Magnificent, Father of Internet, First of His Kind will give you internet!

First though he will make fun of you for not being able to invent internet in your house!

 

[raman]

It's not blind entitlement to expect what is now accepted as a basic utility, broadband internet connectivity, in a relatively urban environment.

Accepted by who as a basic utility? Water, electricity and copper voice services are basic utilities under Australian law. Broadband, as yet, is not. One day it will be, and yes Turnbull's government is making that day further and further away, but that's a whole other argument.

If this was her ideal home and had everything she wanted bar broadband then why should she not buy the house and complain to the minister responsible that there is no form of broadband connectivity? She's certainly within her rights without being ridiculed.

Is she also going to complain to the Education minister that there are no schools close enough? No, because the proximity of schools is publicly available information that she had access to in advance. Much like the availability of broadband.

You stated that you have no problem with Turnbull's response but agree that it is the height of arrogance. If you think that a minister of the Government of Australia responding to a member of the public in that way is ok, then we have a fundamental difference of opinion that won't be resolved.

Okay, to fine tune, I have no problem with the logic of it. Were I Mr. Turnbull's boss, yes, I'd haul him into an office and chew him out.

So I agree that it's a PR disaster, obviously. But the bluntness of it and, again, the fact that it's bang on correct, still stirs a bit of guilty admiration in me. I also just enjoy being a contrarian.

 

[Steve Dore]

You want internet? Turnbull the Magnificent, Father of Internet, First of His Kind will give you internet! .....

I was listening to ABC Radio a couple of Friday's ago and Dr Rebecca Huntley was going on about how it was the 25th anniversary of Tim Burners-Lee's invention of the internet. She interviewed a UK technology theorist and writer and the first thing he did was correct her on this but she continued to go on about the internet only being 25 years old which was quite insulting to the guy she was interviewing.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

Accepted by who as a basic utility? Water, electricity and copper voice services are basic utilities under Australian law. Broadband, as yet, is not. One day it will be, and yes Turnbull's government is making that day further and further away, but that's a whole other argument.

Broadband has become such a part of everyday life, it is reasonable to expect it. No one is talking about it being law. The tweeter is perfectly entitled to complain that it is not available, especially without being ridiculed by an Australian Government minister.

Is she also going to complain to the Education minister that there are no schools close enough? No, because the proximity of schools is publicly available information that she had access to in advance. Much like the availability of broadband.

How do you know what people complain about? How do you know that people don't buy in areas where basic amenities are not available and complain to local members? What is wrong with wanting modern facilities in what is a peri-urban environment? She hasn't abused or ridiculed him, she's just said that it's not good enough that it is not available. That's not unreasonable.

In your earlier email you claimed she blundered into the purchase without checking. You have no way of knowing that. She might well have checked all of the factors of the ideal location she was seeking, found it ticked every box except broadband but went ahead and bought the house thinking she could bring this reasonably to the attention of the appropriate minister and get a considered response, rather than ridicule. Turnbull as an experienced politician and father of the internet in Australia could have asked for her address and had a staffer write a response that explained the issue and timetable and then he could sign it.

Okay, to fine tune, I have no problem with the logic of it. Were I Mr. Turnbull's boss, yes, I'd haul him into an office and chew him out.

So I agree that it's a PR disaster, obviously. But the bluntness of it and, again, the fact that it's bang on correct, still stirs a bit of guilty admiration in me. I also just enjoy being a contrarian.

The major problem is Ocean Grove is in the federal electorate of Corangamite. I would have expected Turnbull to rock up this morning and start running the wire or digging the trench or whatever it takes to keep the good folk of Cornagamite in the Liberal fold. Sarah Henderson will be horrified.

 

[Portia]

Accepted by who as a basic utility? Water, electricity and copper voice services are basic utilities under Australian law. Broadband, as yet, is not.

What a ridiculous state of affairs.

 

[Macca19]

I can't wait to see who gets Cersei.

Join the club brother!

 

[raman]

Broadband has become such a part of everyday life, it is reasonable to expect it. No one is talking about it being law. The tweeter is perfectly entitled to complain that it is not available, especially without being ridiculed by an Australian Government minister.

I disagree with the logic of the second half of that first sentence. When I move, broadband is pretty much my first priority; I wouldn't blindly move without making sure I could get it. I would blindly move without making sure I could get water and electricity, because I know those things are guaranteed to me by regulation. That's why I'm talking about law. It is a significant point of difference when it comes to defining what basic utilities are.

How do you know what people complain about? How do you know that people don't buy in areas where basic amenities are not available and complain to local members? What is wrong with wanting modern facilities in what is a peri-urban environment? She hasn't abused or ridiculed him, she's just said that it's not good enough that it is not available. That's not unreasonable.

In your earlier email you claimed she blundered into the purchase without checking. You have no way of knowing that. She might well have checked all of the factors of the ideal location she was seeking, found it ticked every box except broadband but went ahead and bought the house thinking she could bring this reasonably to the attention of the appropriate minister and get a considered response, rather than ridicule.

I'm making that assumption to give her some credit, because if that's not the case, then taking it up with Turnbull makes even less sense. If an ISP has told her that it's available and then it turns out it isn't, then hell yes she has a legitimate complaint to make - with the ISP.

Turnbull as an experienced politician and father of the internet in Australia could have asked for her address and had a staffer write a response that explained the issue and timetable and then he could sign it.

Totally agreed. But that would have been much less fun than what actually happened.

The major problem is Ocean Grove is in the federal electorate of Corangamite. I would have expected Turnbull to rock up this morning and start running the wire or digging the trench or whatever it takes to keep the good folk of Cornagamite in the Liberal fold. Sarah Henderson will be horrified.

Hey, if it increases the chances that we can only have about 30 more months of Liberal government and can get an undiluted NBN back on track after that, then I can't see why anyone could possibly object to what's happened.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

Join the club brother!

I've heard of sugar coating but as far as a description of Jaime goes, that's a Mars Bar wrapped in Cherry Ripe suspended in a solution of Red Bull.

 

[Eddie Dingle]

I don't know why, sometimes I get frightened.

I'm gonna move to a new town, where the people are niiiiiiiiiiiiiiice.

 

[raman]

What a ridiculous state of affairs.

If broadband is/was to join the ranks of basic utilities under law, this had to happen either before Telstra was privatised (when not enough people cared about broadband anyway) or after the building of a government wholesale infrastructure (currently in "progress"). Unfortunately there's simply no way of it happening in between.

Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos.

 

[Portia]

If broadband is/was to join the ranks of basic utilities under law, this had to happen either before Telstra was privatised (when not enough people cared about broadband anyway) or after the building of a government wholesale infrastructure (currently in "progress"). Unfortunately there's simply no way of it happening in between.

So essentially the Liberals ****ed it up originally, and are now ****ing up fixing the first ****up.

Awesome.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

I disagree with the logic of the second half of that first sentence. When I move, broadband is pretty much my first priority; I wouldn't blindly move without making sure I could get it. I would blindly move without making sure I could get water and electricity, because I know those things are guaranteed to me by regulation. That's why I'm talking about law. It is a significant point of difference when it comes to defining what basic utilities are.

People expect broadband connectivity in the same sense of a basic utility. It is an integral part of everyday life to the extent that the previous government started the NBN rollout which the current government is doing something with...

We could argue in circles all day ... the basic points for me are that Turnbull should not have responded to her complaint the way he did. He is a Minister of the Government of Australia. He has a constituent who has a reasonable expectation that broadband connectivity is available where she has bought a home and it is not. She has brought this to his attention and he has ridiculed her in a public forum. It is unacceptable behaviour by an Australian Government minister.

I'm making that assumption to give her some credit, because if that's not the case, then taking it up with Turnbull makes even less sense. If an ISP has told her that it's available and then it turns out it isn't, then hell yes she has a legitimate complaint to make - with the ISP.

He is the Minister for Communications in the Australian Government. The availability of basic telecommunications infrastructure is in his portfolio of responsibilities. The tweeter is making a reasonable assumption in directing a complaint to him and he could have given a considered response, not ridiculed the tweeter. It's not a matter of whether she was misled by an ISP - she has never said that. It's that she expects a basic service and has complained that it is not available. She is entitled to make that complaint to the relevant Minister and receive a considered response.