Hot Topic The Rebuild, est. 2023 and/or 2025

[faible]

Kind of irritated that draft guru is still down coz the data is hard to find otherwise. Apparently there's an issue with the domain. ¯\(ツ)/¯

Ended up going through my old spreadsheets to see who was removed between editions, but I don't have notes on who was traded where for what, who retired, who was delisted, or who was drafted at what pick (that stuff is online via footywire and the afl website and elsewhere, but I can't be bothered reviewing several pages of several websites to collate the data).

I could go back as far as 2016 but I stopped at 2020 because at that point the only players on that list that are still on our list now are: Shiel, Ridley, Draper, McGrath, Langford, Merrett, Parish, Redman, Laverde, Guelfi, Bryan, Jones.

2020 outs (13): Tom Bellchambers, Joe Daniher, Orazio Fantasia, Josh Begley, Kobe Mutch, Jacob Townsend, Noah Gown, Ross McQuillan, Adam Saad, Shaun McKernan, Conor McKenna, Mitchell Hibberd, Henry Crauford

2021 outs (8): Marty Gleeson, David Zaharakis, Irving Mosquito, Cale Hooker, Ned Cahill, Patrick Ambrose, Lachlan Johnson, Dylan Clarke

2022 outs (10): Devon Smith, Aaron Francis, Tom Cutler, Michael Hurley, Josh Eyre, Brayden Ham, Garrett McDonagh, Cody Brand, Alec Waterman, Tom Hird

2023 outs (9): James Stewart, Alastair Lord, Brandon Zerk-Thatcher, Andrew Phillips, Rhett Montgomerie, Cian McBride, Massimo D'Ambrosio, Anthony McDonald-Tipungwuti, Anthony Munkara

2024 outs (7): Sam Weideman, Nick Hind, Dyson Heppell, Jake Stringer, Kaine Baldwin, Jake Kelly, Tex Wanganeen

It's still up, someone looks to have snagged the domain for ransom, but the below still works:

https://119.42.53.217/clubs/essendon

 

[SpeckieMcVeigh]

It's still up, someone looks to have snagged the domain for ransom, but the below still works:

https://119.42.53.217/clubs/essendon

Look at our drafts from 1994-1996. Grabbing half of your premiership side (11 players) in a 3 year window is an insane haul.

Our window should've been longer but we made finals 3/4 years from 1995-1998, and were truly elite from 1999-2001.

Based on our 90s sides becoming elite 4 years after the main core started to be assembled, I'd assume that if we nail the next two drafts, we'll be a premiership contender starting from 2029.

Of course, they also played finals year 1 of the Lucas/Lloyd era so the list was in a better place to begin with, but I don't think these projections are unrealistic if we nail the next two drafts.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

So serious question at what point do we get to ask for some pick hand outs. Gold coast got ridiculous benefits. We've literally been ****ed for 18 years. West Coast had win 2 grand finals and are likely to get hand outs. As for Joey the time been eating for 7 years. It's not our fault we can't even ****ing do a rebuild right.
We are a major draw card for the afl and they seem happy to let us rot away

Not shit enough. We’ve won 46 games over 5 years.

West Coast have won 21.

North have won 16.

It has an impact both ways too… the presence of those two has artificially boosted everybody else’s performance too. It’s between 2 and 4 free wins for every other club each year.

I feel like North have been covered (probably because I’m based in Melbourne) but some people have not quite notice what a ****ing dumpster fire West Coast have been. They’re an absolute disgrace and one of the worst sides in many decades. I actually find it hard to cop Adam Simpson in the media, especially when some actually praise him as some sort of authority on anything. His performance as coach over the last five years is all-time bad. Incredible what he presided over.

 

[Beerfish]

We can't even be shit properly

 

[jmoo wan]

We can't even be shit properly

but we can shit post better than most

 

[Old Campaigner]

but we can shit post better than most

Posting from the shitter. It’s environmental storytelling

 

[Yoda_]

Posting from the shitter. It’s environmental storytelling

doing gods work

 

[ant555]

Reading the comments from Scott about Essendon before he signed does not scream rebuild to me and you need to look at the actions after. He mentions list profile but the action to fix the list profile where more top up than rebuild. Yes they still kept some draft picks but they also went out and got McKay / Grasham / Goldstein and rather than take a pick for BZT they chased a player in Duursma. They only too 4 picks in the draft. I would have been expecting a few more draft picks and less FA if it was a rebuild.

 

[BrunoV]

I suppose the error could be with the terminology used.

Was Essendon doing its version of a rebuild at the end of 2023? Yeah, sure, probably. It took some first round picks, sacked a coach, spilled a board and then set about topping up with mature aged players. That is entirely consistent with what Essendon does during an 'Essendon rebuild'.

But how does an Essendon rebuild compare with other clubs when rebuilding a list and based on the meaning of the term as it is used in the braoder AFL discussion? Richmond is rebuilding as was Gold Coast from 2018. The give away of a side rebuilding is proactive sacrifice of senior players and high picks for value. Hawthorn took it to such an extreme that it was really just freeing midfield space more than it was getting much in the way of rebuild currency.

It is an exercise in revisionism to argue that what has happaned for the last 10 months is an extension of a grand plan which has its roots at the end of 2023. Some of the relevant circumstantial facts are:

1. late-August 2023, a 6 year contract was granted to Parish. He was either completely unnecesarily signed to a 6 year deal or Essendon failed to capitalise on his trade value either way 6 year contracts for mediocre players is not rebuilding;

2. post-2023 season, failure to prioritise 2 of the young players with the most potential on the list (i.e. Voss and Massimo) at the same time that mediocre senior players such as Guelfi and Weidemann were retained. This is very Essendon rebuild but has no real precent for an actual rebuild;

3. post-2023 season, 4 mature players were signed as free agents or traded in for a substantial chunk of salary cap space, including taking a player for BZT (instead of a pick);

4. May 2024, a 6 year contract was offered to McGrath, another extremely mediocre player who had become a small defender;

5. all of the other mediocre players we re-signed before the arse fell out of the 2024 season, almost as though we were making sure to commit ourselves to all of them before the season showed itself for the farce it was;

6. post 2024 season we saw the removal of Dodoro and Rosa's assesndency to running the list management in its entirety. Rosa's presentation for a 3 year build was based on recruitment of young players which was ultiamtely the trigger for Brad Scott's contract extension into the 2027 season. There was a shift away from free agency trades and to move players out (e.g. Stringer and the attempt with Shiel).

Why did Rosa need to present to the board if we were already in our rebuild? Everything to point 5 made a rebuild more difficult. An actual rebuild is not a club taking its picks. That's what more than half of the competition does in any given year and they're not considered to be rebuilding (and nor should they be).

 

[FootyGuru]

Reading the comments from Scott about Essendon before he signed does not scream rebuild to me and you need to look at the actions after. He mentions list profile but the action to fix the list profile where more top up than rebuild. Yes they still kept some draft picks but they also went out and got McKay / Grasham / Goldstein and rather than take a pick for BZT they chased a player in Duursma. They only too 4 picks in the draft. I would have been expecting a few more draft picks and less FA if it was a rebuild.

Gresham = younger than tippa, McKay = younger than Stewart, goldy was a back up replacement for flip for free, duursma was great business convincing a better player to come to your club from the club your player wants.

You can only go so deep in any draft because they require 2 year contracts.

I don’t think either of these things display a complete change of direction.

I think there has been a rebuild plan the entire time Scott has been here but I don’t think that they want to completely destroy everything leaving Essendon in norths position. Even signing setterfeild last off season showed that we want to remain somewhat competitive.

 

[FootyGuru]

I suppose the error could be with the terminology used.

Was Essendon doing its version of a rebuild at the end of 2023? Yeah, sure, probably. It took some first round picks, sacked a coach, spilled a board and then set about topping up with mature aged players. That is entirely consistent with what Essendon does during an 'Essendon rebuild'.

But how does an Essendon rebuild compare with other clubs when rebuilding a list and based on the meaning of the term as it is used in the braoder AFL discussion? Richmond is rebuilding as was Gold Coast from 2018. The give away of a side rebuilding is proactive sacrifice of senior players and high picks for value. Hawthorn took it to such an extreme that it was really just freeing midfield space more than it was getting much in the way of rebuild currency.

It is an exercise in revisionism to argue that what has happaned for the last 10 months is an extension of a grand plan which has its roots at the end of 2023. Some of the relevant circumstantial facts are:

1. late-August 2023, a 6 year contract was granted to Parish. He was either completely unnecesarily signed to a 6 year deal or Essendon failed to capitalise on his trade value either way 6 year contracts for mediocre players is not rebuilding;

Parish was all Australian the year before wasn’t he? I have never rated him, but not unsurprisingly got a long term deal.

2. post-2023 season, failure to prioritise 2 of the young players with the most potential on the list (i.e. Voss and Massimo) at the same time that mediocre senior players such as Guelfi and Weidemann were retained. This is very Essendon rebuild but has no real precent for an actual rebuild;

Most potential on the list is such a stretch. Voss is limited athletically and undersized. He has worked incredibly hard on his size since leaving the bombers but he isn’t a world beater.

Massimo is still very limited especially as a winger. Limited in the air and defensively, I’d question his toughness too. But has a lethal foot.

3. post-2023 season, 4 mature players were signed as free agents or traded in for a substantial chunk of salary cap space, including taking a player for BZT (instead of a pick);

Gresham the only miss there for mine. But before kako this year Gresham was our best most reliable small forward.

4. May 2024, a 6 year contract was offered to McGrath, another extremely mediocre player who had become a small defender;

What kind of money is he on? McGrath gets a lot of flack here but if he could be important in a premiership side.

5. all of the other mediocre players we re-signed before the arse fell out of the 2024 season, almost as though we were making sure to commit ourselves to all of them before the season showed itself for the farce it was;

6. post 2024 season we saw the removal of Dodoro and Rosa's assesndency to running the list management in its entirety. Rosa's presentation for a 3 year build was based on recruitment of young players which was ultiamtely the trigger for Brad Scott's contract extension into the 2027 season. There was a shift away from free agency trades and to move players out (e.g. Stringer and the attempt with Shiel).

Why did Rosa need to present to the board if we were already in our rebuild? Everything to point 5 made a rebuild more difficult. An actual rebuild is not a club taking its picks. That's what more than half of the competition does in any given year and they're not considered to be rebuilding (and nor should they be).

 

[Sleepwalker]

Nah, let’s kick it off in a few more threads

You sit in the peanut gallery full time nowadays. The view from there isn't really that good.

 

[ant555]

Gresham = younger than tippa, McKay = younger than Stewart, goldy was a back up replacement for flip for free, duursma was great business convincing a better player to come to your club from the club your player wants.

You can only go so deep in any draft because they require 2 year contracts.

I don’t think either of these things display a complete change of direction.

I think there has been a rebuild plan the entire time Scott has been here but I don’t think that they want to completely destroy everything leaving Essendon in norths position. Even signing setterfeild last off season showed that we want to remain somewhat competitive.

Well you can read it that way. I have never said we where going to slash and burn but the club is on record after last years draft saying they where looking to go to the draft over a 3 year period (including last year) and why they gave Scott a 1 year extension to align with that plan. They want to compete but the had a decent crack at finals last year and when it came up short they attacked the draft again.

 

[Old Campaigner]

You sit in the peanut gallery full time nowadays. The view from there isn't really that good.

When you gaze into the peanut gallery, the peanut gallery also gazes into you

 

[FootyGuru]

Well you can read it that way. I have never said we where going to slash and burn but the club is on record after last years draft saying they where looking to go to the draft over a 3 year period (including last year) and why they gave Scott a 1 year extension to align with that plan. They want to compete but the had a decent crack at finals last year and when it came up short they attacked the draft again.

I think we had a decent crack at finals this year too till the injuries came.

All in the same year that we gave up a 50 goal forward for peanuts and while going super deep into the draft.

I don’t think wins mean we aren’t rebuilding, just that we are rebuilding well.

 

[bomberlegend2007]

Honestly, there is a lot being made out of two bit part players, who may go on to have good, average careers.

Massimo isn’t winning a Brownlow. Voss isn’t winning a Coleman.

They are performing in better systems than what we have currently. It’s why Ned Long is doing well at Collingwood. Dawson is doing amazingly at Adelaide. Mitchell couldn’t get a game in Sydney, won a Brownlow at Hawthorn.

The carry on makes it sound like we are the only club that makes these errors. ****ing spare me.

 

[Mercurial89]

Honestly, there is a lot being made out of two bit part players, who may go on to have good, average careers.

Massimo isn’t winning a Brownlow. Voss isn’t winning a Coleman.

They are performing in better systems than what we have currently. It’s why Ned Long is doing well at Collingwood. Dawson is doing amazingly at Adelaide. Mitchell couldn’t get a game in Sydney, won a Brownlow at Hawthorn.

The carry on makes it sound like we are the only club that makes these errors. ****ing spare me.

I think the concern is the passive acceptance by some posters of their careers not working out here.

Players leave clubs all the time, many times a change in environment or role assists with a turn around in form.
Most people accept that.

What can be frustrating for many with this club in particular is so many aspects of this club have been complete shithouse for decades.
Fitness, coaching, scouting,drafting, member experiences, the way they treat staff, sponsorships, PR, every aspect of the club has been poor and not up to standard.

So here we go with the latest iteration of the pursuit to turn around this club. New coach, new list manager, seemingly improved standards. We have lost a few players prior to all these changes that seem to be doing well elsewhere when we are screaming for talent on this list.
We need forward line talent, there is Voss carving the premiership favourites a new one. But he had commitment issues. The source of frustration is why couldn't we motivate him?
Why did we choose the ex demon who not once showed he was a capable footballer but was given 30 chances before Voss was given one?
Did we do all that could be done? Is this another thing that might indicate we aren't on the right path? That it's another reason that we are a shit club and may stay so?
Same thing with Mass, we needed kicking, our piece of shit list manager ****ed up.
But the shoulders are shrugged or the player is outright panned as not being good enough for this team. It never could have worked here.
Why?

Who's to say these aren't signs we are still making terminal mistakes?
Or maybe they are just a few mistakes that everyone makes?


I don't think the dismissal of people's concerns and frustrations helps though. At least not the way it's usually handled on here.
It's been happening for awhile and it kills any conversation, or at least harms decent conversation, as any criticism (and there is plenty of valid criticism of this club) is so staunchly defended.
The way people talk about this club's actions sometimes you have to wonder how we havnt won the last 5 flags, because everything seems roses to some.

 

[faible]

we gave up a 50 goal forward for peanuts

Peter Wright? Langford? Daniher?

 

[BrunoV]

Parish was all Australian the year before wasn’t he? I have never rated him, but not unsurprisingly got a long term deal.

Most potential on the list is such a stretch. Voss is limited athletically and undersized. He has worked incredibly hard on his size since leaving the bombers but he isn’t a world beater.

Massimo is still very limited especially as a winger. Limited in the air and defensively, I’d question his toughness too. But has a lethal foot.

Gresham the only miss there for mine. But before kako this year Gresham was our best most reliable small forward.

What kind of money is he on? McGrath gets a lot of flack here but if he could be important in a premiership side.

And that's how you rationalise an Essendon rebuild.

 

[Yoda_]

how would you rank these, by importance in the football department?

Head coach
Assistant / Development coaches
S&C manager
List Manager

 

[Yoda_]

Honestly, there is a lot being made out of two bit part players, who may go on to have good, average careers.

Massimo isn’t winning a Brownlow. Voss isn’t winning a Coleman.

They are performing in better systems than what we have currently. It’s why Ned Long is doing well at Collingwood. Dawson is doing amazingly at Adelaide. Mitchell couldn’t get a game in Sydney, won a Brownlow at Hawthorn.

The carry on makes it sound like we are the only club that makes these errors. ****ing spare me.

The cycle of life according to an Essendon supporter

Geez we are shit

\/

Must move on ordinary or fringe players

\/

good, those borderline players aren't good enough

\/

oh shit, why did we move those borderline players on they are serving a role at another club. It should be with us


Wash. Rinse. Repeat

 

[Keystone agony]

Honestly, there is a lot being made out of two bit part players, who may go on to have good, average careers.

Massimo isn’t winning a Brownlow. Voss isn’t winning a Coleman.

They are performing in better systems than what we have currently. It’s why Ned Long is doing well at Collingwood. Dawson is doing amazingly at Adelaide. Mitchell couldn’t get a game in Sydney, won a Brownlow at Hawthorn.

The carry on makes it sound like we are the only club that makes these errors. ****ing spare me.

On top of that those making the swipe, well the general view in here was Massimo couldnt defend and Voss was no good

Massive hindsight by posters here. We also offered a deal to keep Massimo, hawks turned his head with an aggressive play that was quite risky considering what he had delivered at the time

 

[Keystone agony]

how would you rank these, by importance in the football department?

Head coach
Assistant / Development coaches
S&C manager
List Manager

Head coach and then list manager

 

[Keystone agony]

2028: (Pre Free Agents and traded in players)

Ridley - Mckay - Z.Reid
Redman - Roberts - Zak Johnson (Zerrett)

Clarke - Durham - Duursma (NHH*)
Vigo - Caldwell - Martin (Tsatas)

Kako - Caddy - Cumming* (Bewick**)
Langford - Wright - Dovaston*

 

[FlyingV]

I think I’m just about done with the Redman, Shiel, Langford, Parish, Cox and Perkins cohort.

They have had these wildly inconsistent careers with ups and downs. I look at the energy that Kako, and Caddy, Roberts provide… it’s just in stark contrast to the above.

Draw a line in the sand from Caldwell, Durham and Martin backwards in my opinion on this list (with a couple of exceptions on either side).