Hot Topic The Rebuild, est. 2023 and/or 2025

[eth-dog]

I think I’m just about done with the Redman, Shiel, Langford, Parish, Cox and Perkins cohort.

They have had these wildly inconsistent careers with ups and downs. I look at the energy that Kako, and Caddy, Roberts provide… it’s just in stark contrast to the above.

Draw a line in the sand from Caldwell, Durham and Martin backwards in my opinion on this list (with a couple of exceptions on either side).

I mean, a bit harsh on Cox (although close to medically retired) and Perkins (still only 23, although I'd have no issues if he were traded). The other guys you mentioned are all in their late 20's and early 30's.

I do agree that Perkins should be entering his prime right now and showcasing what he can do.

 

[Zach Package]

I suspect the primary problem with the rebuild has been the most naturally gifted, game breaking player we have drafted in the last 15 years not only had little interest in doing the hard yards and taking us to the promised land, he didn't even like footy.

Bit of a handicap, that one.

 

[joey_jo_jo]

I suspect the primary problem with the rebuild has been the most naturally gifted, game breaking player we have drafted in the last 15 years not only had little interest in doing the hard yards and taking us to the promised land, he didn't even like footy.

Bit of a handicap, that one.

Yeah but I think we are at fault a bit of putting all the eggs in one basket too....and then refusing to let the basket move on when they first showed signs of disinterest in holding the eggs (Im not sure if the basket is Joe in this analogy but Im going with it haha).

 

[BrunoV]

I suspect the primary problem with the rebuild has been the most naturally gifted, game breaking player we have drafted in the last 15 years not only had little interest in doing the hard yards and taking us to the promised land, he didn't even like footy.

Bit of a handicap, that one.

No more so than the failure to get even 1 grader with picks 1, 5, 5 and 6, 8 and 9 taken in the space of 8 drafts.

By the time you get to Hobbs at 13 we have essentially missed with our first round picks for full 10 year stretch (depending on how harsh you want to be with the 2014 draft).

 

[joey_jo_jo]

No more so than the failure to get even 1 grader with picks 1, 5, 5 and 6, 8 and 9 taken in the space of 8 drafts.

By the time you get to Hobbs at 13 we have essentially missed with our first round picks for full 10 year stretch (depending on how harsh you want to be with the 2014 draft).

its depressing reading but it can turn around, people were saying similar re crows draft misses only last year.

 

[bomberlegend2007]

No more so than the failure to get even 1 grader with picks 1, 5, 5 and 6, 8 and 9 taken in the space of 8 drafts.

By the time you get to Hobbs at 13 we have essentially missed with our first round picks for full 10 year stretch (depending on how harsh you want to be with the 2014 draft).

McGrath - Not the star we wanted, would still be in the best 22 in every side of the comp.

Perkins - maybe, looks like a miss. But also, terrible draft.

Reid - get his body right and he will be a hit.

Cox - looks like a miss. But also, extraordinary circumstances.

Caddy - Tick

Kako - Tick

Tsatas - miss

I would only give you Tsatas, Cox and maybe Perkins.

 

[joey_jo_jo]

McGrath - Not the star we wanted, would still be in the best 22 in every side of the comp.

Perkins - maybe, looks like a miss. But also, terrible draft.

Reid - get his body right and he will be a hit.

Cox - looks like a miss. But also, extraordinary circumstances.

Caddy - Tick

Kako - Tick

Tsatas - miss

I would only give you Tsatas, Cox and maybe Perkins.

You could flip it the other way though and say Caddy and Kako are the only ones who look like hits and McGrath serviceable. Reid does look A grade but he has been a non starter for most of his career so it adds to the pain, plus there were 2 years without picks because of the Shiel trade.
It all adds up in the end. Just glad we've finally changed tack in a meaningful way.

 

[Yoda_]

I suspect the primary problem with the rebuild has been the most naturally gifted, game breaking player we have drafted in the last 15 years not only had little interest in doing the hard yards and taking us to the promised land, he didn't even like footy.

Bit of a handicap, that one.

wouldn't the biggest worry be that we built a club, a game plan, a team around a bloke who "didn't even like footy" ?

 

[Yoda_]

Hit and nail a third draft in a row and we could be well on our way

2023; Caddy, Roberts, Visentini
2024; Kako, Clarke, Johnson
2025; Sweid, El~Achkar, 3 x top 20 picks

thats 11 players who could conceivably be apart of our best 22 on top of those wiser heads

 

[Lore]

Selected quotes from an interview with Brad Scott on the ABC last weekend, in response to a question about rebuilding via trade/FA vs drafting:

I think that's always the debate. I mean, I'm sort of open minded, and that's why in sort of current day, modern day football clubs, there's a list management committee that make those decisions in, it's not just one person's call, but clearly my opinion hopefully carries some weight, but I think we need, the easy answer is you need all of the above. We need early picks and, but I'm very, very conscious that, I mean, I'm biased towards building teams rather than buying them. And I love investing in the draft and investing in young players. And I'm conscious that, our club's in a difficult position, partly because we did go sort of hunting for big fish previously. And we need to build a really solid base of good quality players before we're looking for the one player solution.

More here: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/thre...-scott-playing-the-kids.1333569/post-88828587

From ABC AFL Daily: AFL Saturday: 'It's certainly unfair to lay the blame at the feet of one person', 19 Jul 2025

 

[FootyGuru]

wouldn't the biggest worry be that we built a club, a game plan, a team around a bloke who "didn't even like footy" ?

Those few years we could never get our forward line out there together. No cohesion but a lot of talent.

Orazio Crameri tippa
Stringer Daniher smith

 

[Zach Package]

Those few years we could never get our forward line out there together. No cohesion but a lot of talent.

Orazio Crameri tippa
Stringer Daniher smith

Crameri departed before all bar Daniher arrived but it bears repeating that a weaponised forward line was assembled in a core of Daniher, Stringer, Fantasia, Walla and old man Chook and not only did it not take the league by storm for multiple years as it should have, they basically never played even consecutive games together.

 

[FootyGuru]

Crameri departed before all bar Daniher arrived but it bears repeating that a weaponised forward line was assembled in a core of Daniher, Stringer, Fantasia, Walla and old man Chook and not only did it not take the league by storm for multiple years as it should have, they basically never played even consecutive games together.

Exactly why we should be moving senior injury prone players.

 

[ghostdog]

Reading the comments from Scott about Essendon before he signed does not scream rebuild to me and you need to look at the actions after. He mentions list profile but the action to fix the list profile where more top up than rebuild. Yes they still kept some draft picks but they also went out and got McKay / Grasham / Goldstein and rather than take a pick for BZT they chased a player in Duursma. They only too 4 picks in the draft. I would have been expecting a few more draft picks and less FA if it was a rebuild.

I was bemused when we first brought Goldy in, but we also needed leaders. I'm not unhappy now, and his influence on Draper, Bryan and Vigo should pay off.

 

[Keystone agony]

its depressing reading but it can turn around, people were saying similar re crows draft misses only last year.

Crows are a 2 club town

They were lucky theyve had Rankine, Dawson, Cumming, Peatling, Hinge Keays and ANB all want to get to their club in a fairly short period of time (some good moneyball recruiting)

Remember about 6 or 7 years ago they drafted chayce jones, F.Macasey and Ned Mchenry with top 15 picks

We atleast got some 200+ gamers and AA players

Crows will be a powerhouse soon with Ports demise, anyone wanting to get home is going to have a good look at adelaide compared to port. Not the case with us, especially with Geelong around the corner

 

[Call Me Cake]

You can't build an entire 18 player side through the draft. That's just not possible. Also, not all draft picks are hits. It's common knowledge that about 50% of picks land. You also can't be finishing on the bottom for 5 years straight unless you're norf and have no supporters to burn the place down.

Almost all sides that have been successful have had a chunk of battlers, a mix of later picks, an existing core of good 200+ game players from a past era and traded in stars. Then you have a few teams that have barely finished out of the 8 in a decade (Geelong, Swans, Collingwood) that have always had elite older talent left over and leveraged their ability to top up with stars or rehashing rejects.

This idea that we should "build with high picks" is fantasy talk and doesn't happen in real life.

What will make or break us in the coming years is not the draft, it's knowing when to time our decision to attract a couple big fish/being able to do so, knowing how to reinvent rejects from other clubs in a way that suits our plan, squeezing the most out of the experience left on the list and investing in the proper development of the youth.

 

[Keystone agony]

You can't build an entire 18 player side through the draft. That's just not possible. Also, not all draft picks are hits. It's common knowledge that about 50% of picks land. You also can't be finishing on the bottom for 5 years straight unless you're norf and have no supporters to burn the place down.

Almost all sides that have been successful have had a chunk of battlers, a mix of later picks, an existing core of good 200+ game players from a past era and traded in stars. Then you have a few teams that have barely finished out of the 8 in a decade (Geelong, Swans, Collingwood) that have always had elite older talent left over and leveraged their ability to top up with stars or rehashing rejects.

This idea that we should "build with high picks" is fantasy talk and doesn't happen in real life.

WCE 4th year of being at the bottom

I still think were yet to see the draft picks works or can be done another way. Sure it takes time (But weve only just seen North, WCE and Richmond do it - North been doing it for a while)

Melbourne are probably the best example that can be compared to us. Where they built alot from the draft for success

Petracca
Viney
Oliver
Jackson
Kozzie
Brayshaw
Salem

Later picks
Rivers
Gawn
Fritsch
Spargo
Sparrow ect

But every side brings in players by trade and FA aswell. Dees above with Lever, May

North have also got Parker, Daniel, Fisher, Darling, Tucker, Logue, Corr, Stephens ect

We must target all FA, but they just dont go to poor sides. So how do you become a 'good' side? The only way is really hitting/nailing the draft

Exactly why May and Lever picked the dees they had shot up the ladder and were on the improve with quality youth. Dees finished 12 wins, Lever chose them, 14 wins and 130% May chose them..... -> Ultimate success

 

[Call Me Cake]

WCE 4th year of being at the bottom

I still think were yet to see the draft picks works or can be done another way. Sure it takes time (But weve only just seen North, WCE and Richmond do it - North been doing it for a while)

Melbourne are probably the best example that can be compared to us. Where they built alot from the draft for success

Petracca
Viney
Oliver
Jackson
Kozzie
Brayshaw
Salem

Later picks
Rivers
Gawn
Fritsch
Spargo
Sparrow ect

But every side brings in players by trade and FA aswell. Dees above with Lever, May

North have also got Parker, Daniel, Fisher, Darling, Tucker, Logue, Corr, Stephens ect

We must target all FA, but they just dont go to poor sides. So how do you become a 'good' side? The only way is really hitting/nailing the draft

Do we want to be Melbourne? I don't. Even in their flag year they had a dreadful forward line and were lucky they had so many goal kicking mids and wingers to pick up the slack. I questioned them mid-2022 and since then they went out in straight sets twice. They were not set up for sustained success. I want us to be Geelong, Sydney, Collingwood. Not Melbourne.

You don't accomplish that through the draft.

There's question marks still on West Coast, you're talking as if they've come out of it and proven that it can be done primarily from the draft.

I looked back at Richmond from 2009 to 2017. A lot of the picks they took apart from Martin weren't particularly high draft picks and a lot of them didn't feature in their three flags. They brought in a lot of outside players in the lead up to their 2017 flag and even then had finals experience despite not winning a final in 3 of the 4 years before that.

 

[fairbump_playon]

On top of that those making the swipe, well the general view in here was Massimo couldnt defend and Voss was no good

Massive hindsight by posters here. We also offered a deal to keep Massimo, hawks turned his head with an aggressive play that was quite risky considering what he had delivered at the time

Also - so obvious we have had a professionalism issue with training standards etc

Blame the players? No, it’s the coach’s fault.

Coach moves on a player who won’t commit to standards

Boo hoo, tragedy

And yes ideally Voss would have got the message sooner, and might have if we had good leaders. But we won’t ever have good leaders if we don’t give piss cutting legends like Voss the flick.

 

[jmoo wan]

Crows are a 2 club town

yep the showdowns between the Crows Crows and the Crows Power have been epic

 

[Keystone agony]

Do we want to be Melbourne? I don't. Even in their flag year they had a dreadful forward line and were lucky they had so many goal kicking mids and wingers to pick up the slack. I questioned them mid-2022 and since then they went out in straight sets twice. They were not set up for sustained success. I want us to be Geelong, Sydney, Collingwood. Not Melbourne.

You don't accomplish that through the draft.

There's question marks still on West Coast, you're talking as if they've come out of it and proven that it can be done primarily from the draft.

I looked back at Richmond from 2009 to 2017. A lot of the picks they took apart from Martin weren't particularly high draft picks and a lot of them didn't feature in their three flags. They brought in a lot of outside players in the lead up to their 2017 flag and even then had finals experience despite not winning a final in 3 of the 4 years before that.

I think if you have a half brained football department once you get to the top end now, you should be able to stay there for a while (but maybe most Melb based clubs are still up against it)

I think ive stated enough about Sydney and Geelongs advantages. No marvel side will make finals this year. Alot of melbourne sides struggle to make it even though they make up 50% of the clubs total. No point comparing to someone you cant be

Collingwood the biggest melbourne club by some margin, maybe we can aim to be that. They have had their fair share of help with the drafts. Alot of their success has stemmed from going back to the pendlebury, Sidebottom, Quaynor, JDG, Grundy, Beams drafts along with F/S moore, X 2 Daicos. They got to enough success where guys like Mitchell, Howe, Perryman, Houston, WHE, Mcstay, Crisp, Treloar, Mayne, Adams, Aish, Frampton, Bobby wanted to go there (Houston and Bobby didnt even want to go there as 1st choice)

Pies obviousily did very well till 2013, where oppo players liked what they saw, and then again from 2018 onwards. I imagine these times is where they got a fair few of the players above

What im saying is you need to nail the draft picks to get you to a point where players in the comp see you as a destination club due to success, then you need to hit the May, Lever, Hibberd Langdon, Ben Brown to top it off

Dees failure was they did not make enough of their success from 2019-2021 to get other gun players in as FAs

Melb clubs will start blossoming once geelong start dropping off

 

[SpeckieMcVeigh]

Hit and nail a third draft in a row and we could be well on our way

2023; Caddy, Roberts, Visentini
2024; Kako, Clarke, Johnson
2025; Sweid, El~Achkar, 3 x top 20 picks

thats 11 players who could conceivably be apart of our best 22 on top of those wiser heads

Which is exactly what the 2000 premiership side was consisted of, 11 best 22 players drafted between 1994 and 1996. Sets us up to be a proper contender in 2028.

 

[Lore]

You can't build an entire 18 player side through the draft. That's just not possible. Also, not all draft picks are hits. It's common knowledge that about 50% of picks land. You also can't be finishing on the bottom for 5 years straight unless you're norf and have no supporters to burn the place down.

Almost all sides that have been successful have had a chunk of battlers, a mix of later picks, an existing core of good 200+ game players from a past era and traded in stars. Then you have a few teams that have barely finished out of the 8 in a decade (Geelong, Swans, Collingwood) that have always had elite older talent left over and leveraged their ability to top up with stars or rehashing rejects.

This idea that we should "build with high picks" is fantasy talk and doesn't happen in real life.

What will make or break us in the coming years is not the draft, it's knowing when to time our decision to attract a couple big fish/being able to do so, knowing how to reinvent rejects from other clubs in a way that suits our plan, squeezing the most out of the experience left on the list and investing in the proper development of the youth.

Kind of. I think the point is to get a core of players together via the draft and any alternate pathways like academies, father-son, priority picks, etc. Once you have the elite core you can target the missing piece through whatever means. But you don’t build a core via trade.

The three examples you’ve chosen are probably the three strangest scenarios of the last twenty years (up there with Hawthorn’s accidental 3peat).

Geelong drafted their core from rookie pathways and father-sons from back when you paid a third round pick to sign them (Hawkins, Ablett and Scarlett). They then topped up successfully after Scarlett retired and Ablett went to the Suns, bringing in Dangerfield, Cameron and others. But they were gifted a couple of essential pieces without paying for them and then capitalised on it.

Hawthorn’s essential pieces were gifted to them via priority picks way back when. Similar vintage to Geelong’s core of father-sons, but Hawthorn’s top up of 2016 failed, while Geelong just kept topping up and keeping their old cogs going for way past the usual retirement age, and eventually managed to collect a new set.

Collingwood likewise struck gold with a trio of father-son picks recently (Moore and the Daicoses are the success stories). In their case though its a list built on top of the 2018 Grand final team, which was built on the 2010 premiership team, which in turn came from the early 2000s bridesmaid team featuring father-sons (Shaws, Clokes) alongside some high draft picks like Didak, Swan, Tarrant, and later Pendlebury, Thomas and Sidebottom. (Nathan Buckley gets a mention as being acquired via a rather spectacular trade.)

All three of those clubs have kept the ball rolling since well before the current list management rules were dreamt up. We haven’t and we don’t get a redo.

Sydney isn’t a list I’ve studied closely but I think they’ve benefited a lot from northern academies, as well as having father sons and being an old, well-established, well-run club that basically catches all the strays that want to live in a well connected city but didn’t like the footy bubble of Melbourne (at least until Brisbane became attractive more recently).

If Essendon wants to follow in their footsteps we’ll have to wait for young Bewick to be draft eligible, coz I don’t think any priority picks are headed our way. Failing that, we need to get a bit smarter about making the most of the assets we do have.

 

[ghostdog]

WCE 4th year of being at the bottom

I still think were yet to see the draft picks works or can be done another way. Sure it takes time (But weve only just seen North, WCE and Richmond do it - North been doing it for a while)

Melbourne are probably the best example that can be compared to us. Where they built alot from the draft for success

Petracca
Viney
Oliver
Jackson
Kozzie
Brayshaw
Salem

Later picks
Rivers
Gawn
Fritsch
Spargo
Sparrow ect

But every side brings in players by trade and FA aswell. Dees above with Lever, May

North have also got Parker, Daniel, Fisher, Darling, Tucker, Logue, Corr, Stephens ect

We must target all FA, but they just dont go to poor sides. So how do you become a 'good' side? The only way is really hitting/nailing the draft

Exactly why May and Lever picked the dees they had shot up the ladder and were on the improve with quality youth. Dees finished 12 wins, Lever chose them, 14 wins and 130% May chose them..... -> Ultimate success

I thought most of Bomber's Geelong side came through drafting, except Ottens.

 

[FootyGuru]

I was bemused when we first brought Goldy in, but we also needed leaders. I'm not unhappy now, and his influence on Draper, Bryan and Vigo should pay off.

Goldy move was actually required. We have relied on him this season.