Opinion The Rebuild Thread

[Jeremias]

All 5 of those players would be certain selections at Carlton at the moment imo, even Spangher (who isn't as bad as people think). Whereas at Hawthorn only Shiels and Puopolo would get games in a final. Do you seriously believe that there is not much difference between the talent of the two lists? I mean I can understand where your coming from but even if Carlton played a perfect team game this still wouldn't come close to overcoming the difference in talent (same would be the case for everyone bar the top 4-5 clubs on the ladder at this stage imo)

Simpkin played in a winning grand final, and Spangher also featured in September.

You're either completely ignorant or plain trolling if you don't think each and every club has some ordinary footballers getting a game every week, let alone being in their squad. Given your history I'm certain it is the latter.

Those Carlton players you mentioned aren't world beaters but history time and time again shows that you don't have to be to get a game, even in a top 4 or a premiership side.

If you are going to continue to troll and try spin my words to suit your flimsy arguments, I suggest leaving the Carlton board and not bothering to return. Bay 13 is your true calling.

 

[Beer n Skittles]

Perhaps but their player development is one of the best in the comp and there is plenty to work with there in terms of talent. It could work the other way and Garlett becomes the top small forward in the comp

IMO they're more about taking guys who have a crack & turning them into role players, rather than taking players with talent & turning them into guys that have a crack. What I'm saying is that they could get plenty out of Bell, White, etc.

 

[BlueJet]

Have to disagree; I see guys like Garlett as the ones who wouldn't be on their list. The first time you skirt around an oncoming player & stick one arm out to tackle is the last time you'd get a game.

Guerra pulled out of his share of contests, he filled a role in the side though with his long kicking. This is a strength that the Hawks/Cats etc have that we lack. Both their hard men and their softer types form an almost symbiotic relationship, where they have enough grunts to mask the limitations of any softer players they may have and similarly their outside runners are good enough to mask the poor foot skills of someone like Sewell. Over time we'll be able to get a better balance of players across the list.

 

[Buckley2Menzel]

You're right.

Spahgher, Puopolo, Cheney, Shiels and Simpkin are all superstars.



The day people start to recognize that it's not just about the talent of the player but how they fit into the system, is the day their opinions are worth something.

Who do you think are the players on our list that don't fit into Mick's system, who are our "passengers" as Mick called them?

Nice username

absolute guns!!

 

[BlackGoanna]

Really? We're two months into the season and he's a first year KP from South Australia. Massive learning curve year for him this year both on and off the field. Don't expect to pump him up too much until he goes through his second preseason.

Don't have the patience, like to see signs early whether they are key position from SA.

 

[BlackGoanna]

Damn it!

I had this erudite reply lined up...





Or...

I guess Giles need to lift. Pies are already calling Langdon a bargain after Hine overlooked him in the 2012 draft. FIGJAM traded a pick for Russell. Hine has done it again.

Yes I am sure you guys had lots of faith in Mitchell and McCarthy in there first 2 years. I hope Giles comes through, just hoping to see some better early signs. Next week please! Don't want 5 bad weeks on the trot do we?

 

[Dramoth]

Don't have the patience, like to see signs early whether they are key position from SA.

Seems to be a big problem with some of our supporters... just dont have the patience.

Tall draftees need to play in the VFL for 2-3 years before we really assess them. This is why I am all in favour of putting tall forwards on the rookie list for a couple of years before we make a call.

The clubs should be allowed 10 rounds of draft picks each year (you can trade picks and stuff) and you have to take a minimum of 6 picks total. Then once you have filled out your list, you should be allowed to nominate what players from the draft you are putting onto the rookie list.

 

[etsal1]

Haven't even started the regeneration properly yet and we've already got Menz, Doc, Bucks, Crippa, Graham, Holman, Giles etc. Wait until we start doing this drafting thing properly

To build on a core of Murph, Gibbs, Lachie, Yazz, Robbie, Kreuz & Daisy who are about to enter their peak or are just @ the beginning.

 

[Dramoth]

Haven't even started the regeneration properly yet and we've already got Menz, Doc, Bucks, Crippa, Graham, Holman, Giles etc. Wait until we start doing this drafting thing properly

To build on a core of Murph, Gibbs, Lachie, Yazz, Robbie, Kreuz & Daisy who are about to enter their peak or are just @ the beginning.

You have nailed it... if we can get Humphrey cherry ripe again, then he should become an elite player. And he is definitely in the core of the guys we want to build a team around.

We have a couple of young guys coming through from the last couple of drafts who are going to be elite as well so the plan should be to have the next generation core coming through at approximately the time when these guys are hitting the end of their career.

The next generation of players, if we can nail it with our drafting should be awesome

 

[BlackGoanna]

Seems to be a big problem with some of our supporters... just dont have the patience.

Tall draftees need to play in the VFL for 2-3 years before we really assess them. This is why I am all in favour of putting tall forwards on the rookie list for a couple of years before we make a call.

The clubs should be allowed 10 rounds of draft picks each year (you can trade picks and stuff) and you have to take a minimum of 6 picks total. Then once you have filled out your list, you should be allowed to nominate what players from the draft you are putting onto the rookie list.

Not debating that key position players need more time to reach there true potential. In saying that, I have an expectation that any player drafted can compete reasonably well at VFL level from the outset, regardless of whether they are a key position player. By there second year they really need to be dominating at that level. The VFL is a long way off the AFL. Lessons from Mitchell and McCarthy. 1st year in they couldn't get a kick in the VFL, 3 years in and they still struggled to have an impact at VFL level. I hope Giles can string together some solid VFL games this season, I would be very concerned if he continues to struggle like he has been thus far.

 

[Wickzki]

It's not abnormal for young KP players to struggle and then boom. For example, Aaron Black, who a lot of people rate as a future (slightly) undersized KPF gun, was drafted #25 overall in 2009. In 2011 he was dropped from the reserves into the reserves reserves. Fast forward to his fourth year in the system and he finally catches on into becoming a regular player.

Not at all concerned at this very early stage.

Edit/Add: The only thing I would be concerned about this year would be that how he's coping with the move to Melbourne. That's half of the battle. If he can do that then most signs are positive.

 

[invinciBlues]

It's not abnormal for young KP players to struggle and then boom. For example, Aaron Black, who a lot of people rate as a future (slightly) undersized KPF gun, was drafted #25 overall in 2009. In 2011 he was dropped from the reserves into the reserves reserves. Fast forward to his fourth year in the system and he finally catches on into becoming a regular player.

Not at all concerned at this very early stage.

Edit/Add: The only thing I would be concerned about this year would be that how he's coping with the move to Melbourne. That's half of the battle. If he can do that then most signs are positive.

Josh Kennedy springs to mind

 

[Sam The Doc]

To build on a core of Murph, Gibbs, Lachie, Yazz, Robbie, Kreuz & Daisy who are about to enter their peak or are just @ the beginning.

Just going to be a bit tricky when Kreuzer is fit again as he and Warnock really don't work well in the same side.

 

[BlackGoanna]

Not debating that key position players need more time to reach there true potential. In saying that, I have an expectation that any player drafted can compete reasonably well at VFL level from the outset, regardless of whether they are a key position player. By there second year they really need to be dominating at that level. The VFL is a long way off the AFL. Lessons from Mitchell and McCarthy. 1st year in they couldn't get a kick in the VFL, 3 years in and they still struggled to have an impact at VFL level. I hope Giles can string together some solid VFL games this season, I would be very concerned if he continues to struggle like he has been thus far.

Most decent key position players that make it in the AFL, show promising signs early on in there career.. albeit with inconsistency and room for future development. Of course there are exceptions.

It's not abnormal for young KP players to struggle and then boom. For example, Aaron Black, who a lot of people rate as a future (slightly) undersized KPF gun, was drafted #25 overall in 2009. In 2011 he was dropped from the reserves into the reserves reserves. Fast forward to his fourth year in the system and he finally catches on into becoming a regular player.

Not at all concerned at this very early stage.

Edit/Add: The only thing I would be concerned about this year would be that how he's coping with the move to Melbourne. That's half of the battle. If he can do that then most signs are positive.

Most decent key position players that make it in the AFL, show promising signs early on in there career.. albeit with inconsistency and room for future development. Of course there are exceptions.

 

[Sin City]

Just on Giles, RiteBak@Ya this is the first year he has played against men at all. Last year he only played under 18s all year, not even SANFL reserves. It's a big jump to VFL (equal with SANFL seniors) from SANFL under 18s and this is a real development year where there will be quite a few games that he's up against more players used to playing at a much higher level. Expect a few ups and downs, hope he gets a full season for his development and goes into next pre-season full of steam and you'll see a different player.

 

[etsal1]

Just going to be a bit tricky when Kreuzer is fit again as he and Warnock really don't work well in the same side.

I thought the same when I was typing it. We could have worse problems though.

 

[mediumsizered]

Josh Kennedy springs to mind

Some people forget just how ordinary Kennedy looked at VFL level for the first couple of years & when he was promoted to our AFL team he looked more like a spectator than a player.

 

[Aphrodite]

Some people forget just how ordinary Kennedy looked at VFL level for the first couple of years & when he was promoted to our AFL team he looked more like a spectator than a player.

Pretty sure he wouldn't even be mentioned had he not kicked 11 goals against GWS!

 

[invinciBlues]

Some people forget just how ordinary Kennedy looked at VFL level for the first couple of years & when he was promoted to our AFL team he looked more like a spectator than a player.

It took him a couple of years to come on for the Eagles too. We were too Fev centric at the time for him to really benefit for us and grow as a player I feel. But the point is, we have a couple of kids who've only had a handful games that have shown promise, Im a massive fan of Watson and really think he's the way forward for us.

Just gotta be patient. Which sucks. A lot. And I dont want to be patient most days.

 

[invinciBlues]

Pretty sure he wouldn't even be mentioned had he not kicked 11 goals against GWS!

Yep. Thats why I brought him up. Clearly.

 

[Azul]

Yes I am sure you guys had lots of faith in Mitchell and McCarthy in there first 2 years.

2010, unfortunately, is shaping up as a real bust after so much optimism at draft time. After a possible 70 odd games of development, only Curnow has cemented a spot in our 22. McInness and Watson remain. Mick will have had 2 full years of assessing them by season's end. But with White, Rowe and Everitt performing strongly, regaining senior selection will be an uphill slog.

So certainly far too early to question Giles.

 

[AlecDuncan]

Is Toby Greene calculatingly lowering his trade value to a club he supported as a kid?

 

[C4[2]Yo`DooR]

Is Toby Greene calculatingly lowering his trade value to a club he supported as a kid?

.... did he support Carlton?

 

[Azul]

Is Toby Greene calculatingly lowering his trade value to a club he supported as a kid?

The Andy Krak path to recruitment?

 

[No1Suspect]

The Andy Krak path to recruitment?

Collingwood it is then :/