Analysis The Rebuilds of Geelong and Richmond and their Future Prospects

[Footy Smarts]

Go over to the Richmond Board and read the threads on Graham and then Ross. You might find your balanced view is not so balanced.

This is gold! You want me to go to the place that still reckons Cumberland is a superstar and wanted M Rioli and Mansell shot out of a cannon until recently? Yeah great judge of players they are

 

[Footy Smarts]

Grrr let's have a friendly wager. If you're right about Ross then there is no way he's even close to being dropped or delisted.

So a slab of your favourite beer says Jack Ross

5

Jack Ross

Age

23

Ht

187cm

Wt

87kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.2

4star

K

7.8

3star

HB

8.4

5star

M

2.2

2star

T

2.7

4star

CL

3.0

4star

D

13.7

3star

K

6.7

3star

HB

7.0

4star

M

1.7

2star

T

1.7

3star

CL

2.0

4star

D

17.8

5star

K

8.0

3star

HB

9.8

5star

M

2.6

3star

T

2.8

5star

CL

3.0

5star

either gets dropped again this year or is delisted at the end of the year. Deal?

 

[Grrr]

This is gold! You want me to go to the place that still reckons Cumberland is a superstar and wanted M Rioli and Mansell shot out of a cannon until recently? Yeah great judge of players they are

Actually Cumberland has far more detractors than supporters. MRJ averaged 6 disposals in 2023, and kicked 2 goals in 10 games as a small forward. Mansell his fellow small forward kicked 10 goals in 17 matches, and averaged 7.8 disposals a game in '23. They both averaged just over 2 tackles a game. Pretty poor wouldn't you say.

Would you have been singing their praises, I very much doubt it. No doubt you were including them in the 'no chance, no good young players' category (after all Mansell is 23), that most of the Geelong posters were singing prior to the season. And I'll include myself in that category, not that I'd written them off, they just needed to play differently, ie. not under the '23 coaches.

I suppose only Geelong supporters are such good judges of players.

 

[Grrr]

Grrr let's have a friendly wager. If you're right about Ross then there is no way he's even close to being dropped or delisted.

So a slab of your favourite beer says Jack Ross either gets dropped again this year or is delisted at the end of the year. Deal?

No at all, I don't bet beer over the internet, to old for that. But I will keep it friendly and will be interested in how he goes. Publically cede if I am wrong and you are correct.
I see his strengths and weekness, he has improve a lot in the last year, but as you say he may stall. Time will tell.

ps... I don't want to take your off you young fella.

 

[Footy Smarts]

I suppose only Geelong supporters are such good judges of players.

Nah we've got nuffies. Look at prior views on guys like Charlie Constable, Jarrad Jansen and a few others who were supposed to be the next stars. Plenty wanted Miers dropped a couple of years ago and many still want Kolo dropped despite being super so far this year.

I value coaches' opinions way higher than fans. And yeah I'm going to back that the guy being rushed back from injury (Graham) is clearly superior to the guy who has been dropped or played as sub multiple times in the past 18 months despite being in a struggling side.

 

[Footy Smarts]

No at all, I don't bet beer over the internet, to old for that. But I will keep it friendly and will be interested in how he goes. Publically cede if I am wrong and you are correct.
I see his strengths and weekness, he has improve a lot in the last year, but as you say he may stall. Time will tell.

ps... I don't want to take your off you young fella.

Fair enough. We'll see what happens.

 

[Grrr]

Nah we've got nuffies. Look at prior views on guys like Charlie Constable, Jarrad Jansen and a few others who were supposed to be the next stars. Plenty wanted Miers dropped a couple of years ago and many still want Kolo dropped despite being super so far this year.

I value coaches' opinions way higher than fans. And yeah I'm going to back that the guy being rushed back from injury (Graham) is clearly superior to the guy who has been dropped or played as sub multiple times in the past 18 months despite being in a struggling side.

And I did not value Hardwick's measure of players last season (and his doppelganger MacQualter). Much like Buckley at Collingwood in his last year, and plenty of coaches before them. They get desperate when things go pear shaped.

And I am pretty confident that Graham, MacIntosh and Pickett (to a lesser extent because on his day he can be great, but boy he has a lot of shockers) will be gone next season, and a good chance they will play some VFL this season. Grimes is not far behind(perhaps as early as this week). Prestia is all but gone.

Not surprised if a few other head home or get delisted, so easy to see 8 or 9 leaving, unlucky for a goodish player to be delisted on top of that, but you never know.

 

[Footy Smarts]

And I did not value Hardwick's measure of players last season (and his doppelganger MacQualter). Much like Buckley at Collingwood in his last year, and plenty of coaches before them. They get desperate when things go pear shaped.

And I am pretty confident that Graham, MacIntosh and Pickett (to a lesser extent because on his day he can be great, but boy he has a lot of shockers) will be gone next season, and a good chance they will play some VFL this season. Grimes is not far behind(perhaps as early as this week). Prestia is all but gone.

Not surprised if a few other head home or get delisted, so easy to see 8 or 9 leaving, unlucky for a goodish player to be delisted on top of that, but you never know.

Unless he wants a fresh start why would Graham be gone? Why would he be anywhere near playing VFL this year?

The guy is 26. He's a 2 time premiership player. He would've been a 3-time premiership player if not for dislocating his shoulder in the prelim in 2019. He showed incredible courage to come back and contribute later on in that game. He's easily your best defensive mid and he's played every game when fit for years hasn't he?

The guy should be loved down at Tiger land. Instead he's talked about as delist material. The disrespect is staggering.

 

[Grrr]

Unless he wants a fresh start why would Graham be gone? Why would he be anywhere near playing VFL this year?

The guy is 26. He's a 2 time premiership player. He would've been a 3-time premiership player if not for dislocating his shoulder in the prelim in 2019. He showed incredible courage to come back and contribute later on in that game. He's easily your best defensive mid and he's played every game when fit for years hasn't he?

The guy should be loved down at Tiger land. Instead he's talked about as delist material. The disrespect is staggering.

Because he's played almost no games in the midfield, this is the first time we have seen him in the guts in years on a regular basis.

In our Premiership years he had Dusty, Prestia, Edwards, Cotchin and Grigg.
Last few years he has had Dusty, Prestia, Cotchin, Taranto, Hopper, Bolton and even Baker in there before him. He was never going to displace most of those players, although he did run through there at times.

He plays high half forward. He runs into defence to cover for Dusty not venturing much beyond the half way line. Then he uses his gut running to power forward. He is good at that, or he was, injuries and heavy build have slowed down. Hence his low contested ball numbers, average 6 per game, uncontested 10.75. Not many mids go as low as 6 contested possessions a game. He is a very good pressure player because he can run all day at the same pace, again and again, so great at putting the pressure on around the packs.

Best defensive mid last year by a long way was Taranto. 6.7 tackles per game compared to Graham 3.9. Taranto also averaged 28.7 disposals per game, Graham 15.2. Taranto was also our best offensive mid kicking 19 goals. Graham as a forward kicked 9.

He is courageous and has been rewarded for some pretty average football in the last 2 years by Hardwick. He and MacIntosh are the most polarised players on the team. The majority want them gone, and believe it or not our board knows as much about football as any other board. Established players that polarlise opinions are usually gone before too long.

He deserves all the respect in the world as a team mate and courageous player, but he is barely cutting it. It was his first game back and he had a very good preseason, so at least he has that going for him this year. If he has a good year, good luck to him.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

To me it is a guy who could rightly command about 5.5% of the salary cap or more if you spilled all contracts. So these would be guys worth $800k+ in the current salary cap. DeKoning will probably get there. The rest are no good things.

Heard Holmes has been offered 1m a season at the Dogs? Could be crap of course.

Thought a few of Richmond's youngsters looked impressive on the weekend. Yes we'll keep a keen interest on Tom Brown I'm sure, looks a real weapon.

What counts against the Richmond rebuild is that Jack Graham is still on the list?! And now getting games?!

 

[PhatBoy]

Heard Holmes has been offered 1m a season at the Dogs? Could be crap of course.

Thought a few of Richmond's youngsters looked impressive on the weekend. Yes we'll keep a keen interest on Tom Brown I'm sure, looks a real weapon.

What counts against the Richmond rebuild is that Jack Graham is still on the list?! And now getting games?!

David King was at his brilliant best on Sunday night urging the dogs to cut a whole heap of guys including Tim English (wtf - he’s 26) and just set their sights on 3-4 years down the track. The guy should be taken off the air altogether he’s just a dropkick

 

[Mr Meow]

Intercepts can very much be role dependent, so isn’t really applicable when looking at Miller and Young who tend to play closer to goal to defend against the more dangerous forwards (both having 5 spoils for the game) also a reflection of that different role

Brown who is younger than both took 9 intercepts for the game and the highest amount for the team

Context matters

Fair enough, but to be clear I think J.Henry and SDK are more promising and well rounded defensive pillars than Young and Miller (age-wise there isn't stacks between them). Mature agers, even inexperienced ones, are less likely to add those extra components onto their game that I currently see as lacking.

I'm not looking at Miller and Young and saying "ah no worries there, Grimes and Balta (who seems plugged for work up the ground when available) have been adequately replaced as the KPDs".

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

Bruhn seems to be taking the next step, capable both inside and out.

And for those worried about Hawkins retirement - if Neale sticks around we should be OK.

 

[STPer18]

Managed to blood our early pick in last years draft in O'Sullivan as well. Another huge boy with a big future ahead of him. How good to see the #14 running around again?

 

[My Tilly]

Those cocky one-eyed Richmond flogs gone very quiet lately.
They were up and about preseason.

Love it.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

Managed to blood our early pick in last years draft in O'Sullivan as well. Another huge boy with a big future ahead of him. How good to see the #14 running around again?

Biggest bonus of 2024 has been Parfirtt's resurgence. Always loved his toughness and agility with his low center of gravity, but has added some tank and some accumulation to his game. At 25 is in the cohort that we are a little bit lacking, important that he has stepped up imo.

 

[My Tilly]

Looks like the older Richmond brigade stepping up at the moment. The youth is god awful. Literally nothing whatsoever coming through for them.

Miller has looked ok. Then again, not exactly young given he's 25.

 

[Kobe Gryant]

Looks like the older Richmond brigade stepping up at the moment. The youth is god awful. Literally nothing whatsoever coming through for them.

Miller has looked ok. Then again, not exactly young given he's 25.

Said it before, let's close the thread and re-open in three years.

It's nothing against Richmond, but their supporters are embarrassing themselves trying to argue that this is close.

Hopefully (for their sake) they keep their picks for a few years and we can have a serious discussion at some point down the line.

 

[TheUnicorn]

Can't wait to hear Falcon try and justify how this is somehow a positive for Richmond.

 

[thecatattack]

Bruhn seems to be taking the next step, capable both inside and out.

And for those worried about Hawkins retirement - if Neale sticks around we should be OK.

we'll probably just poach a KPF in the future

 

[Footy_Fan2007]

One team is 5-0.
The other is getting hammered by West Coast….

 

[allrighty]

Being destroyed right now by the bottom dwellers. Looks to me an attitude thing at the moment.

 

[STPer18]

Biggest bonus of 2024 has been Parfirtt's resurgence. Always loved his toughness and agility with his low center of gravity, but has added some tank and some accumulation to his game. At 25 is in the cohort that we are a little bit lacking, important that he has stepped up imo.

I saw during the week on one of the footy shows we're actually the #1 team for scores from centre bounces in the entire comp ahead of the likes of Port and GWS. No one's putting up huge numbers but even with Guthrie missing the entire year so far and Dangerfield most it too we're leading the league at that stat with Bruhn, Bowes, Atkins, Parfitt etc doing all the heavy lifting. None of them are household names or touching it 40 times but they're getting it done when it matters.

 

[STPer18]

I saw during the week on one of the footy shows we're actually the #1 team for scores from centre bounces in the entire comp ahead of the likes of Port and GWS. No one's putting up huge numbers but even with Guthrie missing the entire year so far and Dangerfield most it too we're leading the league at that stat with Bruhn, Bowes, Atkins, Parfitt etc doing all the heavy lifting. None of them are household names or touching it 40 times but they're getting in done when it matters.

Here we are.

 

[Gavin Excell]

Can't wait to hear Falcon try and justify how this is somehow a positive for Richmond.

Green shoots