The technical thread.

[Krakeour Magic]

I heard Kerry O'Keefe make a call on radio the other day that "conditions were making the ball swing early".

As an old boomerang trundler, I call BS on this point, technique is primarily responsible for timing the swing of the ball.

Thoughts?

 

[trueblue_91]

"The reason being that normally overcast days have a higher humidity. This increased humidity accentuates the air resistance against the rougher side of the ball thus allowing you to get better swing. You can swing the ball on sunny days but you have to have very good technique and keep the seam in the optimal position and angle through the air."

 

[krisholio14]

I heard Kerry O'Keefe make a call on radio the other day that "conditions were making the ball swing early".

As an old boomerang trundler, I call BS on this point, technique is primarily responsible for timing the swing of the ball.

Thoughts?

Clearly you haven't watched too much cricket when it's overcast in England, or theres a bit of humidity in the air in Brisbane, or when the Fremantle Doctor is right up in Perth.

 

[Krakeour Magic]

Clearly you haven't watched too much cricket when it's overcast in England, or theres a bit of humidity in the air in Brisbane, or when the Fremantle Doctor is right up in Perth.

Clearly you have misunderstood the question:

I heard Kerry O'Keefe make a call on radio the other day that "conditions were making the ball swing early".

 

[Krakeour Magic]

"The reason being that normally overcast days have a higher humidity. This increased humidity accentuates the air resistance against the rougher side of the ball thus allowing you to get better swing. You can swing the ball on sunny days but you have to have very good technique and keep the seam in the optimal position and angle through the air."

Thanks.

I have already worked out that bit.

 

[krisholio14]

Clearly you have misunderstood the question:

Thanks.

I have already worked out that bit.

I'm sticking with my post.

First session, first day, Gabba pitch, especially after there's been a bit of rain.

 

[Krakeour Magic]

I'm sticking with my post.

First session, first day, Gabba pitch, especially after there's been a bit of rain.

LOL.

"Early" as in when the ball is first released out of the hand.

 

[trueblue_91]

I don't see why you don't think this is valid. Many games you see bowlers swinging the ball and the next game there is no movement whatsoever. Technique obviously does play a part but if the conditions are overcast it helps dramaticly. Visa Versa with a hot day.

There is no other answer besides the change of air resistance due to the weather

 

[Krakeour Magic]

No worries, if a fellow swing bowler comes along they might be able to discuss this.

My experience after reading Dennis Lillees book when I was a kid, implementing his techniques, practising my arse off and then taking that knowledge in to a match is that the more backspin that is imparted on the seam upon release, the later the ball would hold it's line before swinging.

Conditions were irrelevant to this procedure.

 

[ROOTA#6]

No worries, if a fellow swing bowler comes along they might be able to discuss this.

My experience after reading Dennis Lillees book when I was a kid, implementing his techniques, practising my arse off and then taking that knowledge in to a match is that the more backspin that is imparted on the seam upon release, the later the ball would hold it's line before swinging.

Conditions were irrelevant to this procedure.

I can only swing the rock the one way and it swings the same amount no matter what the conditions of the day. Has to be because of my action wrist position and the position of the seam when the ball leaves my hand

 

[krisholio14]

I don't see why you don't think this is valid. Many games you see bowlers swinging the ball and the next game there is no movement whatsoever. Technique obviously does play a part but if the conditions are overcast it helps dramaticly. Visa Versa with a hot day.

There is no other answer besides the change of air resistance due to the weather

Apparently he's talking about the early being when the ball comes out of the hand.

The bottom line is that when conditions are favorable, the curve of the swing of the ball is going to be more pronounced.

I remember a tied one dayer in Perth in the early 90's, India v WI, where both sides struggled to score 250 runs combined. The Doctor was right up and the bowlers were literally swinging it straight out of the hand. The movement was so pronounced many of them struggled to contain it.

If my memory serves me correctly Javagal Srinath was damn near unplayable as it got darker.

Not to mention Ambrose and Marshall earlier.

Here's the card

http://www.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/65479.html

 

[Krakeour Magic]

I can only swing the rock the one way and it swings the same amount no matter what the conditions of the day. Has to be because of my action wrist position and the position of the seam when the ball leaves my hand

Absolutely.

However, it seems to me that your swing is natural for your technique rather than purposefully crafted.

Practice flicking the ball to impart more back spin down the seam upon release and it will hold it's line longer.

 

[DoubleO7]

As a bowler, you'd want the ball to swing late rather than early. I can't really explain the phenomenon though...

 

[Simon_Nesbit]

It's ok KM, you are 100% correct. I doubt many of the above posters have been swing bowlers, based upon their responses.

There's a cricket physics book (art of swing bowling? something like that) around that goes into quite some detail. I've posted about it before (prob 3-4 years ago), bemoaning the complete lack of ability many of our countries bowlers showed for what was a very simple technique.

Applying backspin does a few things.

1. It helps 'stablise' the ball, meaning the seam can be bowled at greater angle without air resistance making the ball 'wobble'. This means you can run a bigger angle, generate more wind resistance, and therefore more sideways force = swing in less favourable conditions.

2. It often keeps the ball lower/slower as the ball "grips" off the pitch - this can make the batsman play earlier, accentuating any movement.

I don't remember the specifics, but I do remember backspin slowing down the swing process (making it later in the delivery). I'd presume the backspin reduced drag over the top of the ball (making it 'float' further towards the batsman), similar to a sliced backhand in tennis.

Waqar had the most amazing swinging yorker, and he REALLY snapped the wrist on it - an edge wouldn't carry to the keeper (luckily he was so accurate it usually took middle/leg peg). It swung viciously, and very very late.

 

[Krakeour Magic]

Thanks Simon, you have nailed what I was trying to convey, excellent response.

Maybe Kerry O'Keefe should leave swing bowling commentary to the swing bowlers.

 

[The Falcon Strike]

It's ok KM, you are 100% correct. I doubt many of the above posters have been swing bowlers, based upon their responses.

Does it count if you were a failed swing bowler?

I bowl the in-swinger and the out-swinger - unfortunately neither of them move off the straight.

SImilarly when i bowl spin - i have 11 varieties of the one that goes straight. I bowl the flipper, wrong-un, leggie, offie, toppy ( i chuck the doosra) etc. I think one turned once about 4 years ago - but it may have just hit a honky nut on the pitch

 

[Ill Chicken]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/cricket/article6740828.ece

That's probably one of the better articles I've read about swing bowling.

 

[Ill Chicken]

Does it count if you were a failed swing bowler?

I bowl the in-swinger and the out-swinger - unfortunately neither of them move off the straight.

SImilarly when i bowl spin - i have 11 varieties of the one that goes straight. I bowl the flipper, wrong-un, leggie, offie, toppy ( i chuck the doosra) etc. I think one turned once about 4 years ago - but it may have just hit a honky nut on the pitch

So you specialise in the pie?

 

[The Falcon Strike]

So you specialise in the pie?

particularly when i bowl spin - i even give the option of meat or cream

 

[Cooldude]

Well it's both technique and conditions.

As someone with great skills at swing bowling shows, they can swing the ball in any conditions. You just need to look at Hilfenhaus, swings it most times when others can't. Dale Steyn is the same. They have great wrist positions and puts a lot of work on the ball with their fingers.

At the same time, some conditions can make the ball swing for bowlers who otherwise don't swing it often.

Alan Davidson used to say that it's all about your grip and the work in your fingers. Although nowadays, the cricket balls they use are way less condusive for swing.

Plus a side on action is gonna help you swing the ball more. Ever since Glenn McGrath, all these quicks with front on actions have appeared, because it's the fad. The best swing bowlers still gets into a beautiful side on body position

 

[krisholio14]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/cricket/article6740828.ece

That's probably one of the better articles I've read about swing bowling.

After reading that i'm prepared to change my thinking on the art of swing bowling.

 

[western royboy]

After reading that i'm prepared to change my thinking on the art of swing bowling.

Don't be too hasty in throwing out your beliefs, if you ignore overhead conditions and humidity I think you are in for trouble. To my mind their is no doubt the ball does more when there is moisture around.

Read these comments and judge for yourself.

Living in Bangkok I play recreational golf in high humidity conditions. The ball when hit with the driver very obviously does not go as far as it does in uk. The heavy air slows the ball and it seems to fall out of the air and does not roll much, ie it does not have a parabolic flight with ground roll.
In the article the reasonable observation is that speed and swing are correlated. I would suggest in higher humidity conditions (cloud cover)the ball leaves the bowlers hand at normal speed but slows more quickly than normal in the moister air and then gets "late and exaggerated" swing as it reaches the speed where the air moving over the ball is disturbed and becomes turbulent for most effect. I would also suggest the rough side of the ball has the capability to trap minute amounts of water moisture thus increasing its weight on that side. The balls shape can also change considerably after a bit of a hammering, and this will also affect aero dynamics much more than rough and smooth sides I expect; more to do with lack of speed thro the air as noted above. As an ex (average!) bowler I do agree that conditions will play a role in positive thoughts, and can generate some extra application with the expectation that the ball will do a bit by itself. West Indian bowlers never had much of a reputation for pace with swing. This is considering swing rather than bounce moving off the seam. Is the air dry in the Caribbean? Answer = Yes in most places

 

[Ill Chicken]

I don't see your point. The article is saying you should be focussing on the correct wrist position and so on to have the opportunity to swing the ball in all conditions. If the conditions happen to be overcast, then as you would say its to your advantage.

 

[western royboy]

I don't see your point. The article is saying you should be focussing on the correct wrist position and so on to have the opportunity to swing the ball in all conditions. If the conditions happen to be overcast, then as you would say its to your advantage.

Agree with the tecnical aspect of the article but I thought it ignored the atmospheric conditions a little too much.

 

[Wallaby]

"The reason being that normally overcast days have a higher humidity. This increased humidity accentuates the air resistance against the rougher side of the ball thus allowing you to get better swing."

Unfortunately, this theory that has been propounded for years is actually wrong.

1. Humid air is lighter and less dense than dry air.
2. Less density provides less drag and friction, and therefore aerodynamic effects are lessened.
3. The ball can absorb a small amount of moisture from the air (and the ground), which could make it slightly heavier, but the effect is probably negligible.

More likely the reason the ball swings more in the morning is that the air is cooler (cooler air - more dense). Humidity probably affects the ball swinging more because there are more micro-currents of air rising from the ground (ie thermals etc), when moisture in the ground and air is evaporating.