The time has come...

[bloods01]

We held off for as long as we could but I think we would all agree that the time has come to play the kids. Regardless of the result and our final finishing position, Roos must now put his faith in the kids.

With Fosdike and Kennelly retiring, with Barry and Micky missing the start of the year, with Hall perhaps in his last year, we must find out if our kids are up to it.

Give them a go and lets bulid the next premiership winning team!

 

[SOPH_CROSS]

People have got to come to term that just because these kids are young doesnt mean they cant play!

Now i do take the time from rating the hottie ressies to actually watch them play they work well together as a team and put their bodies on the line and just all out fantastic!

Last Year i was pretty shitty about the way we played the young kids esp Nick Smith who play against two premiership teams and then dropped him the week after to make way for someone who was not 100% up to scratch. What the hell would that do to a kids confidence? Yet week in week out he makes BOG from the ressies!

Anyway that aside i dont give a crap how many games we lose i think everyone should be proud about what these young kids are going to do for us they will rebuild a team that we love like the one we love now and before you know it the media and critics will have their foots in their mouths when they see how we are now a young blooded team and no longer "TOO OLD!"

Im proud of the ressies and the new kids that are going to step up to our best 22 i think i am more proud of them and love supporting them more than the older team sometimes!

Its gonna happen sooner or later but nows the time! GO RESSIES GO!

 

[liz]

We held off for as long as we could but I think we would all agree that the time has come to play the kids. Regardless of the result and our final finishing position, Roos must now put his faith in the kids.

I don't think we'd ALL agree that at all. I certainly wouldn't.

What is wrong with continuing the recent record of getting younger players to earn a spot on their merits and play surrounded by experienced, quality players - something the Swans still have a good core of, despite the predictions of gloom amongst a few.

What is wrong with them learning that it is never good enough just to go out there and play, without caring about being competitive? Allow youngsters into the team with the expectation that they're going to lose and you'll turn the club into Richmond, or Carlton.

If the younger players are good enough they will earn their spots, just as Moore, Jack and Bird did last year.

 

[grimlock]

Must be a new record, usually this thread only appears in Round 6 when we're lying 10th with 2 wins and 4 losses.

 

[TheMase]

If the younger players are good enough they will earn their spots, just as Moore, Jack and Bird did last year.

I agree Liz, there is no benefit to the club playing kids for the sake of it. They need to be good enough.

Experience is extremely underrated.

 

[SS1987]

I don't think we'd ALL agree that at all. I certainly wouldn't.

What is wrong with continuing the recent record of getting younger players to earn a spot on their merits and play surrounded by experienced, quality players - something the Swans still have a good core of, despite the predictions of gloom amongst a few.

What is wrong with them learning that it is never good enough just to go out there and play, without caring about being competitive? Allow youngsters into the team with the expectation that they're going to lose and you'll turn the club into Richmond, or Carlton.

If the younger players are good enough they will earn their spots, just as Moore, Jack and Bird did last year.

100% agree, you don't have to completely bottom out to build a premeirship side imo. everyone has to earn their spot, quality over youth - playing someone just cause they're younger then someone else makes no sense to me

 

[bloods01]

I agree Liz, there is no benefit to the club playing kids for the sake of it. They need to be good enough.

Experience is extremely underrated.

Unless we play them we will never know if they're good enough. For those of us here in Melbourne we never get the chance to see the reserves play.

We blooded six or seven new player's last year and we must do the same this year. There is a massive difference between playing in the reserves against so so player's compared to coming up against the best. Ease them into it and present them with a chance.

We are by far the oldest list in the competition with five players over the age of 30. We also only have four player's aged 20 or below (the fewest of any team in the competition). We also have 14 player's aged in the 25-29 bracket.

The Hawks had the same problem a few years back but they have been able to rejuvenate its list. They now have no player aged over 30 heading into 2009.

All I am saying is that we need to present our kids with an opporunity to play against the best. By all means I'm not suggesting that we play someone just because they are young. As said they must earn their spot.

 

[ssfc0203]

If they earn it, they earn it.

Putting them in for the sake of putting them in, or lowering standards just so they can come into consideration doesn't do much good..

 

[Corpuscles]

For years I have argued the case put forward by Liz and TheMase

BUT I NOW agree.. the time has come.!!!

Complete 180deg turn around

If your name is Crouch Barry Joe eff'n Frazier, Leo or Micky Mouse

FORGET your reputation unless you are 100% fit and offering genuine leadership , structural balance, strength or have key competitive advantage

THEN ... the OLDIES are the ones who need to prove they should hold on to a spot for their last year

PS. If your name is Kirk you automatically forever qualify whether in wheelchair or out of it!

 

[bloods01]

For years I have argued the case put forward by Liz and TheMase

BUT I NOW agree.. the time has come.!!!

Complete 180deg turn around

If your name is Crouch Barry Joe eff'n Frazier, Leo or Micky Mouse

FORGET your reputation unless you are 100% fit and offering genuine leadership , structural balance, strength or have key competitive advantage

THEN ... the OLDIES are the ones who need to prove they should hold on to a spot for their last year

PS. If your name is Kirk you automatically forever qualify whether in wheelchair or out of it!

I'm glad to see that there is someone out there that shares my views.

As you said, Kirk can play for as long as he wants because he is an absolute champion who delivers each week and plays hard for the red and white!

 

[bedford]

Unless we play them we will never know if they're good enough. For those of us here in Melbourne we never get the chance to see the reserves play.

We blooded six or seven new player's last year and we must do the same this year. There is a massive difference between playing in the reserves against so so player's compared to coming up against the best. Ease them into it and present them with a chance.

We are by far the oldest list in the competition with five players over the age of 30. We also only have four player's aged 20 or below (the fewest of any team in the competition). We also have 14 player's aged in the 25-29 bracket.

The Hawks had the same problem a few years back but they have been able to rejuvenate its list. They now have no player aged over 30 heading into 2009.

All I am saying is that we need to present our kids with an opporunity to play against the best. By all means I'm not suggesting that we play someone just because they are young. As said they must earn their spot.

It all goes back to the problem of playing in a crap ressies comp, it is hard to gauge how good a young player is. Thats why the pre-season comp is our best chance of seeing how good the kids are

 

[Corpuscles]

It all goes back to the problem of playing in a crap ressies comp, it is hard to gauge how good a young player is. Thats why the pre-season comp is our best chance of seeing how good the kids are

I have promised myself to... endure (maybe a bit harsh)... watching ressies again this season. I lost interest when it was a 30 goal slaughter!

There is a ceiling level they can get to in ACTAFL.... in 2 years time we cannot replace a dozen key players.... all of those with longer term hopes MUST get game time consistently regardless of game result!

eg Now no good bringing Laidlaw in for one cold wet game in top of the tree Geelong (admirable effort) and then dropping him As Soph says Smith blitzs it in ACTAFL against bigger bodies ...but 2 isolated senior games is NOW not enough to gauge the list quality.

I feel certain that under 08 philosophy Veszpremi would have been dropped if not for a consecutive run of stunners. No! he aint AFL elite yet but those 5 games has and will help him make the next step.

These are some of the blokes the club are counting on to continue the now expected levels of performance and they wont unless they are all given every chance to prove themselves!

Swans must take a hit if that is what is required for longer term stability!

 

[SM]

I reckon we do need to play more youngsters, but only in the sense that if the choice is between an old, maybe not quite up to it, bloke, and a youngster, we need to choose the youngster.

 

[bloods01]

I have promised myself to... endure (maybe a bit harsh)... watching ressies again this season. I lost interest when it was a 30 goal slaughter!

There is a ceiling level they can get to in ACTAFL.... in 2 years time we cannot replace a dozen key players.... all of those with longer term hopes MUST get game time consistently regardless of game result!

eg Now no good bringing Laidlaw in for one cold wet game in top of the tree Geelong (admirable effort) and then dropping him As Soph says Smith blitzs it in ACTAFL against bigger bodies ...but 2 isolated senior games is NOW not enough to gauge the list quality.

I feel certain that under 08 philosophy Veszpremi would have been dropped if not for a consecutive run of stunners. No! he aint AFL elite yet but those 5 games has and will help him make the next step.

These are some of the blokes the club are counting on to continue the now expected levels of performance and they wont unless they are all given every chance to prove themselves!

Swans must take a hit if that is what is required for longer term stability!

That's my point exactly. We have no idea how good our kids are. In the reserves they might be blitzing every week but the fact that its played at a lower standard might cloud our judgement on them.

 

[bedford]

Its all a bit like our cricket team all of a sudden they have had to replace champions all within 2 years, its too much.This is where it gets back to selectors to start giving young guys some game time in the big stuff, but not all at the same time.
McHack was carried for about 80 games and improved in the last season to become a regular player, you would hope not all rookies would take that many games to become a decent player.
I will say it again that we need to get the ressies in the VFL as it is the next best thing to AFL, that might upset the roomies but it is a fact and would help produce more ready made AFL players.

 

[liz]

That's my point exactly. We have no idea how good our kids are. In the reserves they might be blitzing every week but the fact that its played at a lower standard might cloud our judgement on them.

The reality is that few of our kids regularly "blitz it" in the reserves. Sure the team has been winning - comfortably for the previous three years, less so last year - but it tends to be different players each week, and usually different players at different parts of games who step up. Probably only Malceski, McVeigh and Moore (of the not-yet-established players) have looked so classy in comparison to everyone else around that it was a waste of time them playing much more at that level. Only Moore actually did have to waste time hanging around the reserves team.

Even amidst this so-called lowly company, most of them regularly make mistakes and/or get shunted physically off the ball by some of the bigger bodies they play against. And even in 2007 when they were recording cricket scores, it wasn't uncommon for two-thirds of the final margin to be poured on in the final quarter when the endurance difference became significant.

That's not to say we don't have some good players running around in the twos. It just indicates that most or them aren't - or at least, in seasons past haven't been - ready to make more than a cameo contribution at senior level. I am pretty bullish about the talent we have there. Which is why I am prepared to wait until they've earned their spots until they are introduced en mass. Sure, give those not quite ready a game here or there to get a taste when a spot frees up. But that is not the same as introducing them wholesale for the sake of it, and exposing them because they don't have enough mature and experienced bodies around them to be at least competitive.

 

[RUNVS]

In 2009 we have to get games into the young guys so when some of our older players retire we will have replacements for them.

 

[CAS79]

I don't think we'd ALL agree that at all. I certainly wouldn't.

What is wrong with continuing the recent record of getting younger players to earn a spot on their merits and play surrounded by experienced, quality players - something the Swans still have a good core of, despite the predictions of gloom amongst a few.

What is wrong with them learning that it is never good enough just to go out there and play, without caring about being competitive? Allow youngsters into the team with the expectation that they're going to lose and you'll turn the club into Richmond, or Carlton.

If the younger players are good enough they will earn their spots, just as Moore, Jack and Bird did last year.

Liz I agree with you.

The only exception I have to the rule is if a senior is declining and therefore about on a par with a kid than we promote the kid.

If Crouch is only playing the third string role in the team this year than I would remove him and expose a kid.

But there is no point playing kids if their still behind the mainstream team, promoting mediocrity is not the way to go.

 

[Corpuscles]

But there is no point playing kids if their still behind the mainstream team, promoting mediocrity is not the way to go.

There isn't a "right answer" except the one Roos impliments with an eye to the future and the present need to appease & entertain fans

But honestly consider Craig Birds first half dozen games in 08. I think they showed signs of nervousness and mistakes albeit small glimmer of genuine talent, but hardly worthy of best 22. They persisted & left him there and by seasons end there were games we all had him amongst BOG and was a different player!

Thats what giving game time does.

True no good throwing a pack of youngsters out there to be smashed and dispirited need structure and leadership etc

But for example

Someone has to take FF from MOL next year maybe Grundy? Ditto FB maybe ditto CHF.... there will be only a few options then anyway so they must get a ramp up like Bird ... in 09....to gain experience and confidence!

 

[CAS79]

There isn't a "right answer" except the one Roos impliments with an eye to the future and the present need to appease & entertain fans

But honestly consider Craig Birds first half dozen games in 08. I think they showed signs of nervousness and mistakes albeit small glimmer of genuine talent, but hardly worthy of best 22. They persisted & left him there and by seasons end there were games we all had him amongst BOG and was a different player!

Thats what giving game time does.

True no good throwing a pack of youngsters out there to be smashed and dispirited need structure and leadership etc

But for example

Someone has to take FF from MOL next year maybe Grundy? Ditto FB maybe ditto CHF.... there will be only a few options then anyway so they must get a ramp up like Bird ... in 09....to gain experience and confidence!

A good point.

However I don’t think Bird had anybody particularly queuing up behind greatly outperforming him either. Despite his errors you could see the ability to get hands on ball

As I said if the difference is only marginally in favour of the senior player you go with the kid. A Senior player should also hold their spot on merit and not past deeds, experience in big games is a factor but not above all others either.

I'm not anti regeneration of the team and I think your going to see a fair bit of it this year.

I think for example O'Dwyer needs to play as we need a forward pocket to pressure opposition defensive rebound as well as crumb on the ground.

Grundy should certainly be given a sustained time in the team and Schmidt also needs a long run, the sort that Bevan was given. Laidlaw to see his pace give running options. Obviously young guysm like Currie are going to get the shots at the second ruck.

Please don’t take my post as insinuating not to play the young guys as it most certainly is not, but to reward someone who perhaps has been lagging a little because they are talented alone is not enough.

 

[snappy]

I thought it was obvious that we will be seeing more kids playing this year.
I dont know what the hysteria is all about?

 

[disgruntled goat]

I thought it was obvious that we will be seeing more kids playing this year.
I dont know what the hysteria is all about?

Exactly. What's the big deal? Leo and MOL can barely walk right now, there'll be other injury concerns, why not play young, fit, enthusiastic players who are desperate to prove themselves, and we need to find out where they are development-wise.

 

[vonn]

Snappy your username reminds me of that annoying Schi Scha Schnappy.. or something..

It was a weird dragon.

Anyways if Roos doesn't want to bottom out (which he doesn't) he will have to play the kids now while the veterans are in to provide experience so we don't look like Melbourne II.

This will be his thinking.

 

[snappy]

Snappy your username reminds me of that annoying Schi Scha Schnappy.. or something..

It was a weird dragon.

Anyways if Roos doesn't want to bottom out (which he doesn't) he will have to play the kids now while the veterans are in to provide experience so we don't look like Melbourne II.

This will be his thinking.

Hey Vonn, got any better user names i can use?
BTW Im glad you know what Roos is thinkin..

 

[disgruntled goat]

Snappy your username reminds me of that annoying Schi Scha Schnappy.. or something..

It was a weird dragon.

Anyways if Roos doesn't want to bottom out (which he doesn't) he will have to play the kids now while the veterans are in to provide experience so we don't look like Melbourne II.

This will be his thinking.

Melbourne AND Essendon spring to mind as clubs who failed to regenerate when they should have, and I'd hate to see us go that way. I think Roos showed more inclination to play kids last season, so with Fossie and Tahg gone, Leo and MOL behind the eight ball, I can't see he's going to have much choice, especially if any more injuries crop up between now and the season start.