The VEGAN cuckoo-land that is infesting politics and which farmers are fighting daily.

[Power Raid]

It's somewhat difficult for meat consumers to sincerely state they care for animal welfare, unless picking and choosing which animals they care for, counts.
We marvel at life and how it all comes about, yet we're prepared to impose our will upon 'inferior' life for our seemingly 'superior' needs.

I'm not a vegan but I can't pretend for this not to be true.
It's OK as it's just where we are for now but it will change one day. It's changing already.

the premise of you're position is wrong.

 

[HARKER]

the premise of you're position is wrong.

I really don't think it is and as having previously been a meat eater, I found all sorts of ways and manners to justify my habit and even ridiculed vegans.
It's just what we do......I knew I was a hypocrite (and know I am now, as I'm not vegan), but it was easy to camouflage when society (along with Industry & Advertising) is telling you it's perfectly normal and even necessary to consume animal products.

 

[Power Raid]

I really don't think it is and as having previously been a meat eater, I found all sorts of ways and manners to justify my habit and even ridiculed vegans.
It's just what we do......I knew I was a hypocrite (and know I am now, as I'm not vegan), but it was easy to camouflage when society (along with Industry & Advertising) is telling you it's perfectly normal and even necessary to consume animal products.

so if you eat fruit and veg, you don't respect plant life? or an animal eating another animal?

just because an animal dies for food, it doesn't equate to the person eating as not respecting animal welfare.

 

[HARKER]

so if you eat fruit and veg, you don't respect plant life? or an animal eating another animal?

just because an animal dies for food, it doesn't equate to the person eating as not respecting animal welfare.

That makes no sense. Sorry.

We're talking about living beings that mostly share similar attributes to us.
To give birth, to tend to ones young, to see, feel, hear the earth and to feel pain. To be aware of the life around it.
To attribute plant life as being the same as animal life is simply a cop-out.

I'll say it again; We're mostly in awe of life itself, but it's just our human life that we're so much more in awe of.

 

[Power Raid]

That makes no sense. Sorry.

We're talking about living beings that mostly share similar attributes to us.
To give birth, to tend to ones young, to see, feel, hear the earth and to feel pain. To be aware of the life around it.
To attribute plant life as being the same as animal life is simply a cop-out.

I'll say it again; We're mostly in awe of life itself, but it's just our human life that we're so much more in awe of.

so how do you feel about all the animals slaughtered for farms that produce fruit, veg and grains?

animal welfare isn't about avoiding death. it is about humane treatment

 

[HARKER]

so how do you feel about all the animals slaughtered for farms that produce fruit, veg and grains?

animal welfare isn't about avoiding death. it is about humane treatment

Humane treatment? On which scale to we administer this humane treatment? Certainly on on the other beings' side.
Look, we're all somewhat locked into our views, mostly dependent on our bias, our habits, our upbringing and current-days societal standards.

Challenge - Next time a meat feast presents, watch hard without bias and consider what is going on.
It won't have the same effect on everyone, but watching children rip flesh from bone did it for me. Once I really thought about it, it was hard to ignore.

 

[Power Raid]

Humane treatment? On which scale to we administer this humane treatment? Certainly on on the other beings' side.
Look, we're all somewhat locked into our views, mostly dependent on our bias, our habits, our upbringing and current-days societal standards.

Challenge - Next time a meat feast presents, watch hard without bias and consider what is going on.
It won't have the same effect on everyone, but watching children rip flesh from bone did it for me. Once I really thought about it, it was hard to ignore.

meanwhile can you think about the horrendous outcomes you are delivering by eating vegetables from farms:

1) most farms are one species away from being deserts
2) the displacement of native animal species, as their habitat is destroyed
3) the herbicide and poisons killing countless animals
4) the soil segregation and de-carbonisation, due to the use of fungicides and the absence of animals. which as we know, results in mass extinctions.


Animal welfare is about humane treatment. However if you feel ripping meat of the bone by savage kids, is inhumane, then we have different definitions of animal welfare. but like I highlighted, being a vegan doesn't mean you don't have blood on your hands.

 

[yodellinhank]

It's somewhat difficult for meat consumers to sincerely state they care for animal welfare, unless picking and choosing which animals they care for, counts.
We marvel at life and how it all comes about, yet we're prepared to impose our will upon 'inferior' life for our seemingly 'superior' needs.

I'm not a vegan but I can't pretend for this not to be true.
It's OK as it's just where we are for now but it will change one day. It's changing already.

You're right about things changing. Across the world meat consumption is going up as cultures previously associated with vegetarianism are embracing the benefits of meat.

 

[HARKER]

meanwhile can you think about the horrendous outcomes you are delivering by eating vegetables from farms:

1) most farms are one species away from being deserts
2) the displacement of native animal species, as their habitat is destroyed
3) the herbicide and poisons killing countless animals
4) the soil segregation and de-carbonisation, due to the use of fungicides and the absence of animals. which as we know, results in mass extinctions.


Animal welfare is about humane treatment. However if you feel ripping meat of the bone by savage kids, is inhumane, then we have different definitions of animal welfare. but like I highlighted, being a vegan doesn't mean you don't have blood on your hands.

Your argument isn't about the moral decision though.
It's an argument that justifies your choices and has nothing to do with the best interests of the species we consume.

You're right about things changing. Across the world meat consumption is going up as cultures previously associated with vegetarianism are embracing the benefits of meat.

In the western world?
The latest Morgan poll had 12.1% of Australians to be vegetarian/vegan

The slow but steady rise of vegetarianism in Australia

Between 2012 and 2016, the number of Australian adults whose diet is all or almost all vegetarian has risen from 1.7 million people (or 9.7% of the population) to almost 2.1 million (11.2%), the latest findings from Roy Morgan Research reveal.

www.roymorgan.com

 

[Power Raid]

Your argument isn't about the moral decision though.
It's an argument that justifies your choices and has nothing to do with the best interests of the species we consume.




In the western world?
The latest Morgan poll had 12.1% of Australians to be vegetarian/vegan

The slow but steady rise of vegetarianism in Australia

Between 2012 and 2016, the number of Australian adults whose diet is all or almost all vegetarian has risen from 1.7 million people (or 9.7% of the population) to almost 2.1 million (11.2%), the latest findings from Roy Morgan Research reveal.

www.roymorgan.com

I’m fast becoming one of the 12.1%, as I age I prefer lighter food and the number of meat free dishes each week increases along with a shift to lighter meats such as fish .


But I will add, based on your views, don’t get a job in health, where you are forced to make decisions on life or death based on budgets and or resource constraints. Same said with farming, police, military, politics, law, engineering, cleaners, gardening, logistics etc etc. all of these professions make life and death decisions. It’s also why I suggest welfare and death are two different things.

I’ll also add, take a look at China as it tries to manage food shortages. You’ll see mans true nature, rather than the soft lives we enjoy.

 

[HARKER]

I’m fast becoming one of the 12.1%, as I age I prefer lighter food and the number of meat free dishes each week increases along with a shift to lighter meats such as fish .

But I will add, based on your views, don’t get a job in health, where you are forced to make decisions on life or death based on budgets and or resource constraints. Same said with farming, police, military, politics, law, engineering, cleaners, gardening, logistics etc etc. all of these professions make life and death decisions. It’s also why I suggest welfare and death are two different things.

I’ll also add, take a look at China as it tries to manage food shortages. You’ll see mans true nature, rather than the soft lives we enjoy.

I cannot see how that constitutes an argument and they're not my views.
Not one of those points engages the direct slaughter of a being and the consumption of that product.

As humans, we give ourselves licenses we would not to be party to, should the same act be performed on ourselves by a species relatively far superior to us.
I feel most 'thinking' meat eaters will know that what they're doing isn't quite right, but that alone simply won't stop them. I've asked the question one on one many times over and the the honest replies are usually quite similar. Try it and you may be surprised.

That's all from me for now. Thank you.

 

[yodellinhank]

Your argument isn't about the moral decision though.
It's an argument that justifies y
In the western world?
The latest Morgan poll had 12.1% of Australians to be vegetarian/vegan

The slow but steady rise of vegetarianism in Australia

Between 2012 and 2016, the number of Australian adults whose diet is all or almost all vegetarian has risen from 1.7 million people (or 9.7% of the population) to almost 2.1 million (11.2%), the latest findings from Roy Morgan Research reveal.

www.roymorgan.com

Haha. The vegetarians who eat "almost a vegetarian diet". That could even be me if I were to balance the amount of veges on my plate against the portion of juicy steak. Meat consumption in this country continues to rise with the popularity of "plant based" diets (that include a little meat).

Maybe go off the actual product being consumed and not the fibs people tell Roy Morgon?

 

[Bazzar]

Arnies new meatless vegan T-Bones look ok

 

[Upgrayedd]

Haha. The vegetarians who eat "almost a vegetarian diet". That could even be me if I were to balance the amount of veges on my plate against the portion of juicy steak. Meat consumption in this country continues to rise with the popularity of "plant based" diets (that include a little meat).

Maybe go off the actual product being consumed and not the fibs people tell Roy Morgon?

What the * are you ranting about

 

[Engimal v3]

Meat consumption in this country continues to rise with the popularity of "plant based" diets (that include a little meat).

Source? From what I can find through the ABS data sources, we seem to be at a 10 year low for red meat consumption, with Australians consuming ~6kg per person less red meat than in 2010.

 

[yodellinhank]

Source? From what I can find through the ABS data sources, we seem to be at a 10 year low for red meat consumption, with Australians consuming ~6kg per person less red meat than in 2010.

View attachment 969391

Red meat. Chicken and pork have gone up. Most likely a price thing.

 

[Engimal v3]

Red meat. Chicken and pork have gone up. Most likely a price thing.

I should have clarified, pork was included in the dataset. We're at an 8 year low for pork, but more fluctuations than red meat overall.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

I should have clarified, pork was included in the dataset. We're at an 8 year low for pork, but more fluctuations than red meat overall.

View attachment 969405

this is older, but shows the change over the longer period of time

remember meat can rise/fall based upon how good a season it was, and demand from export (if they are paying premiums)

 

[Hawk Dork]

Can we mention The AFL Vegan Poster Boy, Ben Brown here ?
Got offered 3 years at $750 K and said no
Thats not clear thinking maybe a lack of Vit B ?

 

[Bazzar]

Can we mention The AFL Vegan Poster Boy, Ben Brown here ?
Got offered 3 years at $750 K and said no
Thats not clear thinking maybe a lack of Vit B ?

Will join Siddle as a great athlete not to fulfill his potential because of an inferior diet.

Apart from both being vegans, the other common denominator is their wives were the ones who converted them. What a waste.

 

[Engimal v3]

this is older, but shows the change over the longer period of time

remember meat can rise/fall based upon how good a season it was, and demand from export (if they are paying premiums)

View attachment 969489

Sure, but that's essentially the period before genuine meat alternatives existed. About 5 years ago, you'd be lucky to pick up anything better than corn nuggets. Now you can buy product that is indistinguishable from the real thing.

I looked for ABS data on meat alternative consumption over time, but they only had current snapshots. It'll be interesting to monitor over the next decade.

 

[Hawk Dork]

Sure, but that's essentially the period before genuine meat alternatives existed. About 5 years ago, you'd be lucky to pick up anything better than corn nuggets. Now you can buy product that is indistinguishable from the real thing.

I looked for ABS data on meat alternative consumption over time, but they only had current snapshots. It'll be interesting to monitor over the next decade.

No doubt fake meat consumption will increase
Its starting from a low base and will capture a fair % pretty quickly amongst certain demographics and then expand beyond that

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Sure, but that's essentially the period before genuine meat alternatives existed. About 5 years ago, you'd be lucky to pick up anything better than corn nuggets. Now you can buy product that is indistinguishable from the real thing.

I looked for ABS data on meat alternative consumption over time, but they only had current snapshots. It'll be interesting to monitor over the next decade.

over the decade, I agree. The decline in recent years however may be more related to the ongoing fall in demand for beef than spike in alternatives

 

[Engimal v3]

over the decade, I agree. The decline in recent years however may be more related to the ongoing fall in demand for beef than spike in alternatives

I agree, but I think it's all underpinned by changing attitudes towards nutrition over time. Even a decade ago, if a movie had a vegetarian/vegan character, you could predict with fairly high accuracy what the writers would have them eat in a scene: Steamed vegetables or a salad.

Only 10 years ago, it was unfathomable to many western people that you could do stuff to vegetables other than steaming, boiling or baking. Now you can eat jackfruit that somehow tastes exactly like beef. I think the demand for beef could be falling due to people being educated on nutrition, and people now understanding that you won't become anaemic if you don't eat a steak at every meal.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

I agree, but I think it's all underpinned by changing attitudes towards nutrition over time. Even a decade ago, if a movie had a vegetarian/vegan character, you could predict with fairly high accuracy what the writers would have them eat in a scene: Steamed vegetables or a salad.

Only 10 years ago, it was unfathomable to many western people that you could do stuff to vegetables other than steaming, boiling or baking. Now you can eat jackfruit that somehow tastes exactly like beef. I think the demand for beef could be falling due to people being educated on nutrition, and people now understanding that you won't become anaemic if you don't eat a steak at every meal.

you're ignoring the massive increase in chook

beef and lamb have become much more expensive, while chicken is dirt cheap

to do the math, look how many sku's there are in woolies for chicken, then for pork, and so on. for meat alternatives, until the last year or two you were lucky to have three skus - they have that just for chicken stirfry