The Vent Thread

[Harris Specter]

If only Martin and Cornelius merged, you'd have the ultimate high-flying, athletic marking forward.

 

[Eons]

Was hard to watch North time after time spread when they had possession and our boys hardly even moving to get into space when we had the ball. Sure, some of our players would do it for a couple of minutes at a time, North would score a goal and then the same shit would happen over and over again. We need more attacking defenders prepared to take the game on. I understand it's hard to take the game on when the rest of the teams so stagnant but I'm sick of this kick, mark, stop, wait, ump calls play on, rushed kick to an outnumbered contest and the ball coming straight back into our defense again. We look good when we take the game on and work hard to create space. We have to do it for 4 quarters, not in 2 minute patches here and there. It's really not good enough and I'm sick of watching the same shit happen week after week. Something has to change. Lazy, lazy football. They don't look motivated at ALL. What the hell is going on?

 

[LionKing]

Was hard to watch North time after time spread when they had possession and our boys hardly even moving to get into space when we had the ball. Sure, some of our players would do it for a couple of minutes at a time, North would score a goal and then the same shit would happen over and over again. We need more attacking defenders prepared to take the game on. I understand it's hard to take the game on when the rest of the teams so stagnant but I'm sick of this kick, mark, stop, wait, ump calls play on, rushed kick to an outnumbered contest and the ball coming straight back into our defense again. We look good when we take the game on and work hard to create space. We have to do it for 4 quarters, not in 2 minute patches here and there. It's really not good enough and I'm sick of watching the same shit happen week after week. Something has to change. Lazy, lazy football. They don't look motivated at ALL. What the hell is going on?

Agree mate - we are playing some very DUMB football at the minute and the thing is we will probably come out and beat the demons this week at the Gabba and think everything is great again

 

[notliondown]

Gotta try and be logical about this and lose the emotion a bit so heres dot points after reading this thread.... sorry for the length of it

1. Voss
Are you serious? Sack Voss? What the hell is he supposed to do when players simply show no effort or desire make a contest? Ride them like a jockey with whip and spurs? Run out onto the field with them? Mic up each player an abuse them individually when they stuff up during play? What do you seriously think a coach can do once his team run onto the field? There's no injection for hunger, or passion or even pride - things sorely missing this year from a lot of our team.

And as to the calls that there's no game plan or style or fluency or strategy to his coaching... please tell me... at what point have you seen our group this year capable of following ANY plan? of ANY style? If you think that any coach sends his troops out to panic, be lazy or bomb long every time they get the ball your delusional. Yes there may be an issues with our coaching dynamic, but the problem lays mainly on the field, not the coaches box.

2. Captaincy
The weight and burden of responsibility just doesn't sit well with some people. For some its a spur and a call to rise above and go beyond, for others its a weight and millstone around their necks that simply cripples them. Both Adcock and Rich are two that are suffering from that burden, Adcock more so. There comes a time when your ego has to give way to reality. And despite the personal gain in being named a captain or vice, sometimes the bigger thing to do is simply say I don't want it - Simon Black anyone?

The petulance, laziness and unaccountability of Adcock this year over all 4 games is telling. His continual screaming and pointing at others and the distance from his own man simply points to a player more focused on the performance of others rather than his own. Leadership is setting an example, not demanding perfection from others while under performing yourself. As controversial as it would be, if we have to continue with these endless player rotations, its his ilk of player that needs time in the seconds. The message that no one is exempt from acceptable standards would be palpable.

As for Rich, well the number of touches may have risen of late but the quality has fallen. Bombing away, panic handle balls and putting team mates under the pump with poor disposal is more than just a tag. Its the weight of expectation as well. Despite Brisbane best intentions and desire to reward him, hes simply not ready to be in that position... and with out being dramatic I'm not sure hes the style of player that ever will be.

3. Pride
I've suffered through a lot poor games over the many many years of being a Lions supporter... and the good ones too... like a lot here. But I really am struggling to remember a time where the off field rhetoric has been so far removed from on field performance.

Just once, this week, I'd like to see every player that fronts a media conference stop talking about where they are at as a team, or that we know we are better or that we know the importance of this next game... and show some real accountability. Stand up and admit that the performance is unacceptable - and MEAN it. Admit that they got ahead of themselves... admit that there's only one solution and that's hard bloody work.

Stop worrying about the off field show... stop worrying about social media. Stop having Merret DJ B105 on a Saturday afternoon 2 hours before a game and other such nonsense when the stakes are far higher than his next job. Get the players minds and focus on what the REALLY important things are... hunger, performance... pride. I'm not suggesting its these things in isolation that are the issue but its hard to escape the fact that the celebrity of being a Lions player has seemingly taken on more importance than ACTUALLY being a Lions player.

Its pointless naming player after player.... its pointless singling out mistakes or performances... this is a team issue. Its a mindset issue. Its a group issue. The insipid, unaccountable, lazy and panicky style of play that has pervaded us for the last month is unacceptable. The idea that you can stand back and someone else will do the work is an abomination and selfish. And the sheer lack of desire and pride to be better than you were last week is not only contagious it's dangerous.

4. Player changes
I hope now that after 4 weeks of people slavishly calling for this player to come in or this one to go out that people are finally starting to realise that Polks isn't the issue nor that Harwood is that savior... or that Brown is past it or whoever the flavour of the month is at the time.Continual player changes are destabilizing, unsuccessful in the main when the whole team is suffering not individuals, and that a single player alone will not make our current team a successful one.

The success of Mayes, Doc and Paps isnt about great debuts as much as it is about poor team mates. Yes its great that they look the goods right now... but their debuts shouldn't be necessary at this stage of their careers - especially when we have carried on about depth over and over this year.

Scott showed faith in the 0-3 beaten Roos that flogged us on the weekend. The changes to that team over that run were minimal. The players knew that had the chance and opportunity to turn things around... and they did. We could learn a lesson from that... Big time.


We have the talent. We have the skills. We have the ability and we have the plan.

What we haven't got is the self respect, commitment and pride in the club and Guernsey at the moment to prove it.

And there's only one group of people that can collectively change that... the players. It starts and ends with them.

 

[Hollow Knight]

good post NLD.

On Voss though, I think for a lot of people, it isn't their desire to see Voss sacked, but more just an understanding that he is in a pretty tough position, i.e.

- team has been playing terrible, dispirited football
- the fixture is one week away from taking a very nasty turn
- Voss is out of contract.

For a number of reasons, I think it is best that Voss sees out his contract... we can't really afford to be changing mid-contract and we look a more professional outfit by honouring commitments and contracts. But you have to admit, taking sacking out of the equation, at the very least it is going to be hard for the board to give him a new contract if the current situation doesn't improve.

 

[Haggis McHaggis]

There's no injection for hunger

AOD9604

Seriously though, outstanding post

 

[POBT]

Yeah, really good stuff notliondown

 

[notliondown]

good post NLD.

On Voss though, I think for a lot of people, it isn't their desire to see Voss sacked, but more just an understanding that he is in a pretty tough position, i.e.

- team has been playing terrible, dispirited football
- the fixture is one week away from taking a very nasty turn
- Voss is out of contract.

For a number of reasons, I think it is best that Voss sees out his contract... we can't really afford to be changing mid-contract and we look a more professional outfit by honouring commitments and contracts. But you have to admit, taking sacking out of the equation, at the very least it is going to be hard for the board to give him a new contract if the current situation doesn't improve.

No your right mate, I just replied to your post in the good bad and ugly thread along the same lines. I'd just like to see us all calm the f**k down... the hysteria and panic do no one any favours.Theres no doubt Vossy will be feeling the heat... and maybe some of that is justified... but like you I think over reaction is just crazy.

Football is a funny thing... we've all focused on the horror stretch, but who knows how that plays out? Maybe the players have too and they just penciled these games in for wins? A week really is a long time in footy and all we can hope for despite the start that all concerned find a way to salvage the rest of the season.

I'll say it. I like Vossy. And I'm having a hard time laying this entirely at his doorstep like a lot of others. What the players are dishing up can surely be in no way related to the way this guy plays the game, his passion for the club or his pride in its past.

I'm willing to give him the time and space to get it right. And if not, at the end of year like him, I'll take the kicks.

 

[Ceebee]

Maybe you could email that post to Vossy for all the players to read.
That was written by someone who loves his club very much Notliondown.
Some of our players could learn from your passion.
Wonderful post. thank you.

 

[Eons]

Gotta try and be logical about this and lose the emotion a bit so heres dot points after reading this thread.... sorry for the length of it

1. Voss
Are you serious? Sack Voss? What the hell is he supposed to do when players simply show no effort or desire make a contest? Ride them like a jockey with whip and spurs? Run out onto the field with them? Mic up each player an abuse them individually when they stuff up during play? What do you seriously think a coach can do once his team run onto the field? There's no injection for hunger, or passion or even pride - things sorely missing this year from a lot of our team.

And as to the calls that there's no game plan or style or fluency or strategy to his coaching... please tell me... at what point have you seen our group this year capable of following ANY plan? of ANY style? If you think that any coach sends his troops out to panic, be lazy or bomb long every time they get the ball your delusional. Yes there may be an issues with our coaching dynamic, but the problem lays mainly on the field, not the coaches box.

2. Captaincy
The weight and burden of responsibility just doesn't sit well with some people. For some its a spur and a call to rise above and go beyond, for others its a weight and millstone around their necks that simply cripples them. Both Adcock and Rich are two that are suffering from that burden, Adcock more so. There comes a time when your ego has to give way to reality. And despite the personal gain in being named a captain or vice, sometimes the bigger thing to do is simply say I don't want it - Simon Black anyone?

The petulance, laziness and unaccountability of Adcock this year over all 4 games is telling. His continual screaming and pointing at others and the distance from his own man simply points to a player more focused on the performance of others rather than his own. Leadership is setting an example, not demanding perfection from others while under performing yourself. As controversial as it would be, if we have to continue with these endless player rotations, its his ilk of player that needs time in the seconds. The message that no one is exempt from acceptable standards would be palpable.

As for Rich, well the number of touches may have risen of late but the quality has fallen. Bombing away, panic handle balls and putting team mates under the pump with poor disposal is more than just a tag. Its the weight of expectation as well. Despite Brisbane best intentions and desire to reward him, hes simply not ready to be in that position... and with out being dramatic I'm not sure hes the style of player that ever will be.

3. Pride
I've suffered through a lot poor games over the many many years of being a Lions supporter... and the good ones too... like a lot here. But I really am struggling to remember a time where the off field rhetoric has been so far removed from on field performance.

Just once, this week, I'd like to see every player that fronts a media conference stop talking about where they are at as a team, or that we know we are better or that we know the importance of this next game... and show some real accountability. Stand up and admit that the performance is unacceptable - and MEAN it. Admit that they got ahead of themselves... admit that there's only one solution and that's hard bloody work.

Stop worrying about the off field show... stop worrying about social media. Stop having Merret DJ B105 on a Saturday afternoon 2 hours before a game and other such nonsense when the stakes are far higher than his next job. Get the players minds and focus on what the REALLY important things are... hunger, performance... pride. I'm not suggesting its these things in isolation that are the issue but its hard to escape the fact that the celebrity of being a Lions player has seemingly taken on more importance than ACTUALLY being a Lions player.

Its pointless naming player after player.... its pointless singling out mistakes or performances... this is a team issue. Its a mindset issue. Its a group issue. The insipid, unaccountable, lazy and panicky style of play that has pervaded us for the last month is unacceptable. The idea that you can stand back and someone else will do the work is an abomination and selfish. And the sheer lack of desire and pride to be better than you were last week is not only contagious it's dangerous.

4. Player changes
I hope now that after 4 weeks of people slavishly calling for this player to come in or this one to go out that people are finally starting to realise that Polks isn't the issue nor that Harwood is that savior... or that Brown is past it or whoever the flavour of the month is at the time.Continual player changes are destabilizing, unsuccessful in the main when the whole team is suffering not individuals, and that a single player alone will not make our current team a successful one.

The success of Mayes, Doc and Paps isnt about great debuts as much as it is about poor team mates. Yes its great that they look the goods right now... but their debuts shouldn't be necessary at this stage of their careers - especially when we have carried on about depth over and over this year.

Scott showed faith in the 0-3 beaten Roos that flogged us on the weekend. The changes to that team over that run were minimal. The players knew that had the chance and opportunity to turn things around... and they did. We could learn a lesson from that... Big time.


We have the talent. We have the skills. We have the ability and we have the plan.

What we haven't got is the self respect, commitment and pride in the club and Guernsey at the moment to prove it.

And there's only one group of people that can collectively change that... the players. It starts and ends with them.

Excellent post

On Voss, we only seem to have one game plan and if we can't execute it then we will keep seeing exactly what happened yesterday. We need to have plan a, b, c, d etc. Put numbers back when we are getting smashed in the centre. If they keep getting players loose, play man on man. I'd like to see a lot more from the coaching group though on having different plans to stop getting absolutely flogged though. If the players can't play to plan a, then change it up.

 

[greendiesel]

What the hell were the coaches doing during that first quarter.
The coaches should always have a feeling whether the players are flat or not.
The first few minutes of a match should confirm or deny that.
I could see and feel from level three, at the 5 minute mark, that if we didn't slow down the play, bolster our backline, or do something to change the flow , we'd be 10 goals down at qtr time. This is what the top teams do. They prevent rather than cure. History shows North had 16 shots at goal in that first quarter. McKeever went to Majak at the start. I thought..OH NO. Brad Scott immediately isolated Majak with McKeever in our last line of defence and thought how good is this. What the hell was McKeever doing alone in our last line of defence on Majak. Eventually Patful was moved onto Daw. Good. But that was it. For an opposition team to have 16 shots at goal in the first quarter...something, or lots of things are very very wrong.

 

[Cousin Jed]

From what I can see we were putting numbers in the back half. We had so many that every time we tried to get it out we had nobody up field.

Patfull was next to Daw at the 2nd marking contest so not sure about him being moved eventually...

 

[Dylan12]

I'll say it. I like Vossy. And I'm having a hard time laying this entirely at his doorstep like a lot of others. What the players are dishing up can surely be in no way related to the way this guy plays the game, his passion for the club or his pride in its past.

I'd be surprised if there are any Lions fans who do not like Voss. I agree that a lot of blame should be attributed to the players, however, if for whatever reason, the message is either not getting through, he is unable to motivate the players or the players aren't playing for him, which really is the case at the moment, then what other alternatives are there if things don't improve? Sack the majority of the playing list.

I agree that it is way too early to be making any sort of call on Voss's future, however I would like to think, irrespective of how the season pans out, that Voss will remain in the job until the end of the season. I reckon he deserves that much.

 

[Jorgo]

Way too much reasoned discussion, not enough venting

 

[greendiesel]

From what I can see we were putting numbers in the back half. We had so many that every time we tried to get it out we had nobody up field.

Patfull was next to Daw at the 2nd marking contest so not sure about him being moved eventually...

I didn't see numbers back in the first 15 minutes. 16 shots at goal don't happen with numbers back.
Patful on Daw at 3rd marking contest. Semantics. I said it was a good move. Should've been done earlier regardless. You're suggesting we did well in the coaching box first quarter ?

 

[Slax]

I'm trying to work out how people can be defending a coach who has been at the helm for 5 years and has a winning percentage of 38%. Take out the first year and it drops to a pathetic 31%, this is not acceptable for a bloke who has been at the helm for this long.

Can people please get the idea of love of the club and his playing career out of their heads, footy is business and its a business that revolves around winning, which we're not doing. You need to win to bring in the crowds and the sponsor which in turn feeds the football department. Brisbane is in financial trouble and without changes it won't improve. Voss has had enough time and its pretty clear things aren't improving, I say sack him now and give Harvey the reigns until the end of the season.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Can people please get the idea of love of the club and his playing career out of their heads

I think it is a bit insulting to suggest that everyone backing Voss is blinded by manlove.

While I am personally approaching a tipping point, some people may be a little more patient during a rebuild for example and still wanting to see some more evidence either way.

 

[carnthemlions]

I'm trying to work out how people can be defending a coach who has been at the helm for 5 years and has a winning percentage of 38%. Take out the first year and it drops to a pathetic 31%, this is not acceptable for a bloke who has been at the helm for this long.

Can people please get the idea of love of the club and his playing career out of their heads, footy is business and its a business that revolves around winning, which we're not doing. You need to win to bring in the crowds and the sponsor which in turn feeds the football department. Brisbane is in financial trouble and without changes it won't improve. Voss has had enough time and its pretty clear things aren't improving, I say sack him now and give Harvey the reigns until the end of the season.

Given that his contract expires at the end of the season, what would be the value in sacking him now?
I think he'd be well aware that he's unlikely to get another one if the season continues on its current trajectory.

 

[BigBadBrisbaneBears]

Re: the kick ins - the first quarter in particular (10 kick ins) it was the same recipe.

- Take eternity to get the ball in.
- End up kicking to the exact same spot every time anyway despite taking eternity.
- Make sure - and this is important - both our marking players and flanker fly for the same ball, ensuring spillage.
- Ensure no crumbing players are in vicinity of said spillage.
- Repeat 10 or so times before realising it's a shit strategy.

Absolutely. Infuriating.

Agreed - I spoke to one of the Assistant Coaches after the game and he admitted that kicking to the interchange gate side of the ground was a set routine "to make interchanges more easily" ...... that just shows how bereft of footy smarts our club has become!

 

[kylegee28]

Was hard to watch North time after time spread when they had possession and our boys hardly even moving to get into space when we had the ball. Sure, some of our players would do it for a couple of minutes at a time, North would score a goal and then the same shit would happen over and over again. We need more attacking defenders prepared to take the game on. I understand it's hard to take the game on when the rest of the teams so stagnant but I'm sick of this kick, mark, stop, wait, ump calls play on, rushed kick to an outnumbered contest and the ball coming straight back into our defense again. We look good when we take the game on and work hard to create space. We have to do it for 4 quarters, not in 2 minute patches here and there. It's really not good enough and I'm sick of watching the same shit happen week after week. Something has to change. Lazy, lazy football. They don't look motivated at ALL. What the hell is going on?

Agreed. I'm wondering why this is though? It's either we're not fit enough, we don't have a game plan or the players just have no confidence at all. Not good.

 

[Bucking Beads]

I am so sick of the gutless and weak efforts from the majority of the team. We aren't playing as a team. Too many blokes waiting for someone else to do the work. So frustrating because we aren't this bad of a football side. It is how we are losing which makes to so much harder. Not even competitive in round 1 or 4 which is embarrassing.

 

[TheBiz]

Agreed - I spoke to one of the Assistant Coaches after the game and he admitted that kicking to the interchange gate side of the ground was a set routine "to make interchanges more easily" ...... that just shows how bereft of footy smarts our club has become!

WHAT?? as opposed to getting the ball down our end of the ground, our main concern is ease of interchanges?

 

[Dylan12]

I don't think any of us have really underestimated how much of a loss Ben Hudson has been and how much it impacted our team. IMO, it was just a bad decision to 'retire' him.

Having seen some of Hudson's recent games at Collingwood, I'm still struggling to come to grips as to why we let Hudson go. Such a statement is not in hindsight either. Hudson's work ethic and attitude were first class last year and there was no reason to suggest that was going to change. It appeared to me that he made the boys certainly walk that bit taller. He just should have been kept around until Longer was ready to replace him.

I'm still not sure what Martin is supposed to offer. He will never be that second ruckman / forward that consistently impacts the scoreboard and when he is in the ruck, hell, Dylan McLaren had just as much impact. Fortunately we didn't have to give up anything to get him, but god damn, I wish we still had Ben Hudson in our side leading from the front and getting his knees do. If our players actually played with that same desperation he played with last year and still does, our fortunate would be remotely different.

 

[Bucking Beads]

Martin has no footy smarts. Either does Maloney actually.

 

[Gibbo_88]

Excellent post

On Voss, we only seem to have one game plan and if we can't execute it then we will keep seeing exactly what happened yesterday. We need to have plan a, b, c, d etc. Put numbers back when we are getting smashed in the centre. If they keep getting players loose, play man on man. I'd like to see a lot more from the coaching group though on having different plans to stop getting absolutely flogged though. If the players can't play to plan a, then change it up.

Every game plan depends on your players winning the one on one contests. We're not going to see any game plan this season until we have majority of the team do that.

My vent after the weekend is how badly we were killed on the turnover, especially in our forward line. A typical play for this year of the team is when we win a clearance in the centre square is kick it really high forward, seconds later the opposition have the numbers and are running it out of defence, none of the midfield is set up to slow them down even when they go out on the wings so they're at the half forward line before we look capable of defending.