The Venting Thread - Do it here!

[Blur]

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Thoughts?

 

[soreplums]

Wasn't going to say anything because I'm pissed but really you cant blame him its the game plan going around the boundary Takes to long to get it in there

been saying the same thing for two years.... ur spot on. Need to bring it in far quicker. But if Buckley says something, you can guarantee Mick cracking the shits

 

[lethalburns]

Spot on larrikan

Finally someone who could actually see what was going on.

We always kick a lot of behinds against them. Their gameplan exposes our non-elite skill level and inability to hit targets confidently under pressure.

 

[bothfeetshanker]

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Thoughts?

I don't think this is a real photo. Micks shank isn't firmly and deeply insirted - otherwise I would have believed it!!!

 

[bucksisbest]

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Thoughts?

Doesn't ring true ,as Mick looks like he's wanting to go straight up the guts.

 

[Rustin Cohle]

Doesn't ring true ,as Mick looks like he's wanting to go straight up the guts.

Oh man... This comment is one of the greatest I've ever read on BF.

 

[Swan4Brownlow]

swan4brownlow great post with many valid points...

I just wanted to say one more thing to all those bad kicking posters - poor set shots from the boundary line are a result of our game plan....just because Buddy makes it look easy doesn't mean Cloke can. Many shots were under pressure and from the youngsters who may feel perceived pressure, and outside 50. How many shots on goal did Davis/Medhurst and Didak have?

So are we not giving the Saints enough credit for forcing us wide, putting us under constant pressure in our forward line, holding their structures solid and wearing us down? Possibly we were just beaten by a better side with defensive structures that are better than ours - both in the forward and backlines. I can't see how we can beat them this year.

The way we beat them is by taking our chances, by exactly what we did for the first 3 quarters tonight except we kick straight. We cannot and will not beat them if we play an open game, Riewoldt will cut us to ribbons. If we kicked straight tonight we win and Malthouse and they players are heros. I am definitely hearing what your saying about where and who took our shots, but really we had some howlers.

For all of those who want to go and cut up their memberships or dive off the Westgate, remember that in 2007, Geelong were either 2-3 or 3-3 and had just lost to North Melbourne down at Kardinia. People were calling for Thompson's head. Look what happened. Not saying the same will happen with us, but if you can't see that we are on the right track then your kidding yourself. We have a really good mix of youth and experience. All we need is our matchwinners, Jolly, Pendles, Swan, Cloke, Didak to fire when our youngsters do as well. If we win next week we are 3-1. If someone had come to me and said we'd be 3-1 after 4 rounds I would have taken it and run. Remember, the season is a marathon

 

[soreplums]

swan4brownlow great post with many valid points...

I just wanted to say one more thing to all those bad kicking posters - poor set shots from the boundary line are a result of our game plan....just because Buddy makes it look easy doesn't mean Cloke can. Many shots were under pressure and from the youngsters who may feel perceived pressure, and outside 50. How many shots on goal did Davis/Medhurst and Didak have?

So are we not giving the Saints enough credit for forcing us wide, putting us under constant pressure in our forward line, holding their structures solid and wearing us down? Possibly we were just beaten by a better side with defensive structures that are better than ours - both in the forward and backlines. I can't see how we can beat them this year.

I agree with this. When we kick big scores it's because we get the ball into the forward line quickly and goals are kicked from right in front.

However, we had quite a few set shots that should have been kicked. Caf, Steele, McCarthy all missed from about 30-35m out almost directly in front. Cloke missed one from about 35-40 in front of goal that he should have kicked. We kick any one of those and we are a chance to get the footy out of the middle and have another crack.

One positive out of Trav's misses is the fact that he only sprayed one shot on goal... at least he gave the other misses a chance.

One thing that was good for us was that their forwards didn't dominate and they didn't have many set shots on goal- most were scrappy scoring shots kicked in general play.

 

[wicksy]

Doesn't ring true ,as Mick looks like he's wanting to go straight up the guts.

Absolute Brilliance!!! LOL

 

[Pie eyed]

I am disappointed but lets not go overboard.

We stuck it to those bastards for 3 quarters and could have had the game sealed up had we kicked even moderately straight. For one reason or another our last quarter was just shocking - I think the continued misses up forward really deflated a few of our players.

I dont think Malthouse was to blame for this loss. If we had kicked straight he would be lauded amongst posters. We had the men and the pressure to win this game.

Biggest passengers in the game for me were Medhurst (always plays the man, play the bloody ball for once!), Davis, Leroy and Fraser. The same names keep cropping up, I hope MM has the balls to drop some of these generally regarded as 'best 22'.

First of all, I am sick of coming onto this forum and reading 12-16 year olds posting utterly useless garbage on this board and trying to act like know it all heros. If you can't put together a sentence that makes sense and all you have to add is dihorrea, then don't bother.

Now onto the game. I thought our endevour for the majority of the match was there. How many times did the Saints turn the ball over through skill errors in the first half because of the pressure we applied? We have not had that itnensity and tackling ferocity since the Geelong game a few years ago. Importantly, we showed that we can match it with the best team in the comp when the heat is really on.

Unfortunately, for all of you saying that we moved the ball too slow etc etc, when you play a heavy flooding style like we did, you can't just simply move the ball forward quickly through the corridoor because simply there isn't anyone to kick it to. Numerous times in the first half we got the ball on the wing and had to wait while another player ran forward of the ball, giving the Saints a chance to flood back and then forcing us to move the ball slowly. Do we think if we had of allowed the game to be an open, free-flowing game, that our defense would have been so ontop of the Saints forwards and able to deal with Riewoldt as well as we did? Of course not, the reason Riewoldt struggled was because we forced them to move the ball slowly. Unfortunately, its a catch 22, either play defensively and move the ball slowly or open it up and have a shoot out.

One real positive from tonights game was that our younger brigade of midfielders, namely Thomas, Wellingham, Beams and Sidebottom all looked very composed and worked really hard. Didak too showed that he can at least work hard against a tag and I was happy with the amount of chasing/harrassing/tackling he did, a massive improvement on his usual self. I think we need to bite the bullet and play Jolly as the sole ruckman, this was how he played his best footy with the Swans. Rucking, going to the bench, going forward, rucking again doesn't seem to be his go, perhaps he is a playerwho needs to really work into his game. Ball was also very good, did exactly what we recruited him for, anyone who is critical of him after tonights performance should just do themselves a favour and never watch a Pies game again.

However, we also had a few glaring negatives. Bad goal kicking is bad football, simple as that. Our set shot misses were very very poor for an AFL side, and it wasn't just confined to Cloke. In fact if Cloke is to be our CHF, tonights performance was encouraging. On numerous occassions he outmarked Dawson and Blake which is an improvement on his first 2 matches. The problem is if he is to play that role then he needs another key forward to kick it in to. We had many players miss very gettable goals. In reality, if we went in at half time 8.4 instead of 4.8 which really, considering some of our misses, isn't asking a lot, we win the game. Again in the third, we kick 3.3 instead of 0.6 we just about win the game.

As for our players. Davis has to learn to actually put his body over the ball rather than try and pick the ball up one handed to avoid contact. Unfortunately, until he puts his head over the ball he will not be of any great use in big games because in those games you just aren't allowed any time or space. Toovey for mine was also a major worry, could not pick the ball up and disposal was pretty ordinary. If Goldsack is fit then that change needs to happen asap. Some are calling for Maccaffer and McCarthy's heads, however one game is nowhere near a long enough run to determine whether or not they will be of use to us. Leigh Brown, other than flexibility and a bit of muscle, does not provide us with much more than Reid could. Reid is hopefully our future CHB and as such, time needs to be invested into him at AFL level. Admittedly we are aiming for a premiership so we can't carry players, but if Leigh Brown can't give us more than he did tonight then he can't stay for much longer.

One final word. For all of those out there that are calling for Malthouses head and want Buckley to take over the reigns asap, do you really think that he would make that much of a difference? People seem to think that just because he was an amazing player, that somehow his talent will be passed onto the players and make us a 10 goal better side. Please, I have never heard anything more absurd. Sure he may turn out to be a fine coach, perhaps even our next premiership coach, but Bucks can't get out on the ground and win the game for us. Malthouse provided the players with a gameplan tonight that, if executed properly through accurate kicking, would have won us the game. He is not to blame for the players errors.

In all reality I expected us to lose tonight. Like many of you, I am guttered that given the circumstances we couldn't win. St Kilda proved that they are an amazing outfit. So disciplined and they do not carry anyone. They are so good at retaining possession, something we should take note of because countless times we bombed away to a 3 on 1 contest rather than just maintaining possession. This is the way to play modern footy. The Saints were able to weather the storm simply by denying us the footy by chipping it around. The accuracy of their short passing once they get a clean kick away is astounding. Hats off to them

Both excellent posts.

I thought we showed we do have the game plan to beat the Saints.
This was a very big game for both sides regardless of what coaches or camps say. The Ball issue made it so and it showed.

Accuracy cruelled us and by not having a lead at 3/4 time the Saints ha nothing to lose just thumping it forward at every contest no matter what.

Mark my words. the Collingwood players lost the game. Mick put the right things in place to win it but the players inaccuracy blew it.

They'll pay and learn from it.

Go Pies.

ps. That is the game plan which will beat the Hawks too.......if we can kick a goal to save our souls.

 

[didaka]

Why is it so, that when Jolly man handles a player he is penalized, yet when he cops the same it's play on.

 

[richo24]

Mick - last premiership 1994.

I can't see how he will win another with team.

He needs to dump his pets; McCarthy, O'Bree, Toovey, Macaffer & Fraser or Jolly- there is NOT room for 2 useless talls in this team.

Bring on Buckley and I don't mean that Melbourne reject!

 

[Rustin Cohle]

Why is it so, that when Jolly man handles a player he is penalized, yet when he cops the same it's play on.

I agree. Why is it that the ruckman in front position is allowed to grab the player behind him, yet Jolly gets penalized for holding.

He gets penalized for outmuscling his opponent as well. If the other ruckman goaes to ground they pay an automatic free kick, even if the contest is fair.

 

[Ickirus]

The coaching was terrible tonight by MM. The Saints once again flooded our forward line, and once again we struggled due to our slow ball movement up the lines.

A lot of our players are also constantly being played out of position.
- Lockyer needs to stay forward,and only forward.
- Pendles needs to be in the guts, not the wings or flanks.
-Davis needs to spend between 50 to 70% of his time on ground in the midfield or wings so we can use his kicking. He provided a spark for the brief moments he ventured up in the midfield, and he is being wasted being used up forward for the whole match, especially when we had no forward bringing the ball down and instead relied on Davis attempting a pack mark over 3 Saints players.

MM should have also manned up the Saints spare defender after Roo went down as there was no need any more, yet he was happy to let them keep taking mark after mark in our forward 50.

 

[Muse]

Anybody think we've got a chance in hell of trading Leigh Brown, Fraser, Davis, McCarthy, O'Bree & Malthouse to Freo for Pavlich, Ballantyne & Barlow? Please say yes, please say yes, please say yes.

 

[Frankie23]

Our structure absolutley killed us. Baker, Blake, Fisher and Gilbert all had double figure marks, and they all have soemthing in common, they are defenders?

I don't know how to combat it, but they are allowed way too much space when they are coming out for their D50 and when we enter our 50 it's always these same players loose.

 

[BringThePressure]

TBH I think blaming it on kicking is taking the easy way out.

The problem runs deeper - mental toughness.

You lack it.

 

[Nardz]

i'll join in.

I am so sick of the following players giving us NOTHING far too often.

Alan Didak
Leon Davis
Paul Medhurst
Travis Cloke
Tarkyn Lockyer


If we lose a game, you can bet your bottom dollar that the above 5 players let us down.

Other players i would add to this list - except they gave us little (which is slightly more than nothing)
Shane O'bree
Josh Fraser
Leigh Brown
Alan Toovey


Also playing macaffer and mccarthy for this game was probably a mistake - they both didn't give us much either, but i'll go easy on them because they're young.

 

[kevind]

TBH I think blaming it on kicking is taking the easy way out.

The problem runs deeper - mental toughness.

You lack it.

In certain players such as Didak, you are probably right. As a team, it is one of our strengths.

What we lack is talent. Outside of a very good defence we lack good KFs and pace and kicking skills in the midfield. We also carry a lot of very ordinary footballers such as L Brown and Toovey who have heaps of mental toughness but lack ability.

Great win by the Saints, but Collingwood has been seriously overrated by many this year, caught out not because of lack of mental toughness, but because of a lack of talent.

 

[Nardz]

In certain players such as Didak, you are probably right. As a team, it is one of our strengths.

you're kidding yourself. mental toughness is not a strength of ours.

mentally tough teams handle pressure when it is thrown at them.

we lift for games where we are the underdogs - because there is no pressure.

 

[kevind]

you're kidding yourself. mental toughness is not a strength of ours.

mentally tough teams handle pressure when it is thrown at them.

we lift for games where we are the underdogs - because there is no pressure.

And you are kidding yourself if you think we have the talent to be a contender against the likes of the Saints.

Teams that lack talent don't handle pressure when it is thrown at them because their skills come undone due to the pressure. You could make Travis Cloke the most mentally tough guy in the world, but he is still going to be a poor shot on goal.

Leigh brown is mentally tough....but look at the skill level!!!!!

 

[Nardz]

And you are kidding yourself if you think we have the talent to be a contender against the likes of the Saints.

Teams that lack talent don't handle pressure when it is thrown at them because their skills come undone due to the pressure. You could make Travis Cloke the most mentally tough guy in the world, but he is still going to be a poor shot on goal.

Leigh brown is mentally tough....but look at the skill level!!!!!

yes we do have the ability to be a contender against the saints.

they are a better side than us - so if they're playing at their best we won't beat them - but we had chances to beat them and we didnt.

when we player weaker sides we are susceptible to being "hunted" so to speak - see the essendon game from last year.. or the year before.. or either of the carlton games in 08. and many other games im sure.

even see the hawthorn game last year. hawthorn were pretty much down and out when we came up against them and we threw em a lifeline

we have way too many downhill skiers in this team to be considered mentally tough.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

Were you there tonight mate?
To be honest, I thought J-Mac was actually quite good tonight considering.
He needs to get another few games in a row to pick up the pace of senior footy. Give the kid a break

Give him games against lesser teams than St Kilda and Hawthorn. He was shocking tonight.

 

[kevind]

yes we do have the ability to be a contender against the saints.

they are a better side than us - so if they're playing at their best we won't beat them - but we had chances to beat them and we didnt.

when we player weaker sides we are susceptible to being "hunted" so to speak - see the essendon game from last year.. or the year before.. or either of the carlton games in 08. and many other games im sure.

even see the hawthorn game last year. hawthorn were pretty much down and out when we came up against them and we threw em a lifeline

we have way too many downhill skiers in this team to be considered mentally tough.

Hawthorn are a good example. We lack the skills by foot and by hand to penetrate their zone.

I know a lot of posters on here really rate our list. I don't. I think we have skill weaknesses all over the ground. In fact there seems to a general consesus amongst many football supporters that Collingwood have, over the last few years, achieved above our ability.

I think this is true and probably due to mental strength as a team. I wouldn't think we have any players in the the top 20 of the AFL, yet last year we finished in the top 4.

Sure certain players such as Didak and Davis have mental fragility but all sides carry such players.

In the first half of tonight's game it looked like St Kilda were more mentally fragile as they got sucked in by our targeting of Jones. When the game settled, it was players like Goddard who nailed their shots at goal when we missed. Their skill level, IMO, was far superior and that's what decided the game.

 

[THATSGOLD]

Why is it so, that when Jolly man handles a player he is penalized, yet when he cops the same it's play on.

i said that two weeks ago and last week.. i've never seen a player get so crusified by the umpires. Do they hate him? Saw him having a chat with one of them at half time while waiting for the third quarter to begin.. the umpire looked so dismissive.