Discussing 2004 to 2009 and only mentioning carlton in passing
The what if thread
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Whisper in the Wind
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The only Carlton note worth adding is that they get Cotchin and Richmond get Kreuzer.
Not sure what else you're wanting.
Hawthorn players were battered including Dipper, Dermie, Ayres, Pritchard & Platten.
Draw and cats would have won the replay.
Doubt, it. They would have folded quickly even without WW1. The University sides began in the late 1800s, in the days of strictly amateur sport. There were university sides in many sports and many countries. They started out pretty competetive - being almost exculsively young, reasonably fit blokes in their early 20s. But once teams turned into clubs that had winning as their aim and started paying players, the university teams just weren't a viable concept. With a huge player turnover, and those players not being fully committed to their sport, but rather their studies - they had no hope.
Even without WW1 their decline to uncompetetivemess would just have accelerated as more and more professionalism came into the game.
Thye only place University sports remain a viable financial concern is the US college system - and those are basically professional teams (but of course the players don't get paid- the good ones start getting paid in High school) and the players are at the college for one reason - to get a pro contract.
How is the situation with Sydney University? They played in a pretty high level in NEAFL. Do their players get paid?
yyou
Norm Smith Medallist
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Absolutely. North were also done by 150 points earlier that season by Fitzroy. Not sure Essendon would have found Hawthorn as easy as North were, but if they'd gotten through to the GF they might have stumbled there as they did in real life, just like everyone previously who'd made the GF from EF...Fitzroy would have been waiting...
And in hindsight, it's the only Hawk flag I'd happily sacrifice for another club...
Masotiger
All Australian
What if Judd and WCE accepted Richmond's 11th hour bid of picks 2 & 18 in the 2007 draft and a player for Judd?
Pick 2 Trent Cotchin
Pick 18 Alex Rance
Judd probably lifts Richmond beyond wooden spoon in 2009, therefore, no Dustin Martin with pick 3 (2009).
The sum of the above equals a 41 year premiership drought and counting for Richmond.
Thank you Good Lord!!
Pick 2 Trent Cotchin
Pick 18 Alex Rance
Judd probably lifts Richmond beyond wooden spoon in 2009, therefore, no Dustin Martin with pick 3 (2009).
The sum of the above equals a 41 year premiership drought and counting for Richmond.
Thank you Good Lord!!
Dewyyyyy
Norm Smith Medallist
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What if Freo never said yes to the deal that cost them Pick #1, #20 and #36 for Trent Croad and McPharlin with Trent Croad returning to Hawthorn not long later. Pick 1 was Hodge and 36 was Sam Mitchell.
Tiger_Of_Old
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What if Buckley stayed at Brisbane.
I have no doubt had the Lions defeated Hawthorn in that '83 QF.....(a free for a deliberate OOB that saw Tuck kick the go-ahead goal), that the Lions would have beaten North, which were a dead team walking as ladder leader that season. They'd have been in the Grand Final, something that would have been a huge fillip for the club. I reckon in the subsequent history of the Lions they'd have certainly stayed around longer and stronger than their ultimate sad demise in 1996 with a Flag or a GF appearance in 1983.
They would also met North at VFL Park where the Lions never lost a Finals match.
MCG was Fitzroy Finals grave yard at that time period.
AFL didn’t help by changing the venue in the Elimination Final later when they met Collingwood…
What if Fremantle never traded Andrew McLeod for Chris Groom?
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If he never got stripped of his Brownlow, Watson would be remembered on the Woewodin tier of Brownlow medalist.
This is a good one. Means we wouldn't have got a young Josh Kennedy from Carlton, who would go on to become our all-time leading goalkicker and a crucial part of our 2018 Premiership.
Who would the Tiges have offered up as the player component of that deal? Aaron Fiora?
RedmanWasHere
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By the time the 2007 AFL Draft was held, Aaron Fiora was entering his 4th season at St Kilda.
CakeEater
Brownlow Medallist
What if the umpires had of not #freekickhawthorn during the 13 GF, would freo have won, not Hawks
What if Adelaide had picked Matthew Pavlich over Ken McGregor as their 17 year old.
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Great one. Probably would've been a lose/lose in the end.
Richmond 2008 had 11 wins and a draw and finished 9th (lol). Add Judd to the mix and you probably play finals. You still had Richo, Bowden, Brown, Johnson, Simmonds towards the end of their careers but Deledio, Newman, Foley, Tuck, Riewoldt, Edwards with plenty of footy ahead of them. Dusty for an entire career trumps Judd for half, but the timeline would've been completely different.
If you're a top 8 side 2008/09/10 then you miss Vickery, Martin, Conca as your early picks to go with Cotchin and Rance. Best in your price range (10-15) in 2008 is Phil Davis or Sidebottom (or Shuey a bit later), then in 2009 Daniel Talia or Lewis Jetta (Fyfe a stretch at 20), 2010 Isaac Smith if you are lucky. Looking at players traded in those years maybe you would've gone after Chris Tarrant or Shaun Burgoyne or whoever. In the end you probably fare no better than Carlton did (peak a 5-8 side then fade) even though you had a quality key forward but the approach would've been very different.
From our perspective no Kennedy, no Masten. I believe we would've taken Cotchin at 2, not sure if we would've picked Rance at 18 or not and I believe we were keen on Callan Ward, either way a great pick to have. Regardless of who we take there's a good chance we are still garbage in 2008, 2009 and 2010. We were always going to take Naitanui or Rich in 2008, but without Kennedy maybe we would've take Tom Lynch over Gaff or tried to turn Rance into a forward or who knows what. If not having Kennedy in 2009 somehow made us bad enough to get pick 3 (unlikely, Kennedy hadn't hit his straps then) then Cotchin, Rance, Naitanui, Shuey, Dusty is some core to build from.
The real question is if you aren't s**t in 2009 who gets Dusty? Freo, North, Sydney, WC, Port had the next 5 picks. Maybe Freo still pick Morabito who is a local kid, but surely he doesn't slide any further than that.
Strapping Young Lad
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Hawthorn with their whopping 15 free kicks to Freo's 14, did all the damage eh.
It definitely wasn't the choking in front of goals.
CakeEater
Brownlow Medallist
Masotiger
All Australian
Neither Richmond nor Carlton needed Judd at the time. These 2 teams finished last and second last in 2007. How TF was Judd going to lift them into premiership contention alone?
St.Kilda or Collingwood needed Judd at the time. Judd gets St.Kilda over the line and at least 1 premiership. Collingwood may have won one earlier than 2010.
Not sure WCE take Cotchin with pick 2. I recall his father being very critical of the Eagles culture at the time and warned them against picking him. Whether that would've been the case is academic now.
As for who gets Dusty - obviously not Melbourne!! Sydney offered Richmond 2 picks inside 10 for our pick 3 at the 2009 draft fully aware of the player Dusty could become. And I'd say Sydney's culture would've developed Dusty equally. Thank God Richmond stood firm, and His nibs Sir My Sh!t Don't Stink Judd refused our 11th hour bid. Happy Days for Richmond and WCE, but no so for Carlton. F them!!
