The "what-ifs" thread

[Power Raid]

We'd probably still have international ODIs and T20s on FTA if it wasn't for Murdoch and the Libs being in bed with him and allowing Foxtel to bypass the anti siphoning laws where all home tests and limited overs matches are supposed to be on FTA.

It was also one of the reasons the NBN was nobbled under the Libs as high speed internet would have negatively impacted Foxtel's market share, Kevin Rudd basically said as much in an interview a few years ago. Under Labor the plan for the NBN was fibre to the premises but then under the Liberals that got scaled back to fibre to the node under the guise of cutting costs but fibre to the node is not much better than the broadband we had previously.

That's why we see so many ads for 5G internet now as that offers the high speed internet that the NBN should have provided, if the NBN was implemented properly we wouldn't need 5G.

whispers are NBN will be sold be 5G is given the green light for for scale roll out (source telstra)

 

[Hawk Dork]

whispers are NBN will be sold be 5G is given the green light for for scale roll out (source telstra)

FTTN made the NBN useless

 

[Power Raid]

I think the solution needs to be a permanent sustainable solution with lots of storage, be it pumped hydro and hydrogen or any other form of sustainable storage, not a permanent stockpile of nuclear waste left for our great grand children to deal with.

So far we don’t have anywhere on the planet where this model has proven successful

Which highlights the power of propaganda, where normal people support hope to tackle climate change.

Big gas companies love this!

 

[Power Raid]

FTTN made the NBN useless

Even if it was fibre to the premise, what speeds could we expect?

5g delivering 250 to my office and nbn 29 to my home.

The nbn doesn’t exist in West Perth yet, thank F. Otherwise I wouldn’t have 5g offered at a cheaper price than NBN. Meanwhile my home is on HFC which delivered 17 at half the price.

 

[Hawk Dork]

Even if it was fibre to the premise, what speeds could we expect?

5g delivering 250 to my office and nbn 29 to my home.

The nbn doesn’t exist in West Perth yet, thank F. Otherwise I wouldn’t have 5g offered at a cheaper price than NBN. Meanwhile my home is on HFC which delivered 17 at half the price.

Kiwis get 1 gbps with their real NBN

 

[Gough]

Kiwis get 1 gbps with their real NBN

We're the can't do country.

 

[Plugger35]

It was easier for NZ to roll out their version of the NBN as they're a smaller country but Australia still butchered the NBN roll out with govt incompetence wilful or otherwise.

Turnbull should have known better as that was supposed to be his area of expertise, he wasn't a Murdoch/Trump lapdog like Morrison though which is probably why he was knifed while he still had a good popularity rating. He probably did know better but he wasn't prepared to toe the party/company line.

Have a look at the Bushfire crisis, you can't tell me Turnbull wouldn't have handled that better than Scomo, he at least wouldn't have handled it worse.

 

[Power Raid]

It was easier for NZ to roll out their version of the NBN as they're a smaller country but Australia still butchered the NBN roll out with govt incompetence wilful or otherwise.

Turnbull should have known better as that was supposed to be his area of expertise, he wasn't a Murdoch/Trump lapdog like Morrison though which is probably why he was knifed while he still had a good popularity rating. He probably did know better but he wasn't prepared to toe the party/company line.

Have a look at the Bushfire crisis, you can't tell me Turnbull wouldn't have handled that better than Scomo, he at least wouldn't have handled it worse.

Australia Fd it up from start to finish.

A $4.7b investment worked out on the back of the envelope, on a plane, by two guys with no experience other than winning votes.

Then dumping all potential partners with telecommunications experience and projects, to go it alone.

What was the final cost? I guess we won’t know until the right offs, as the numbers quoted are net not cost. My guess is $93b based off engineering companies who built it.

 

[Procrastinator35]

Australia Fd it up from start to finish.

A $4.7b investment worked out on the back of the envelope, on a plane, by two guys with no experience other than winning votes.

Then dumping all potential partners with telecommunications experience and projects, to go it alone.

What was the final cost? I guess we won’t know until the right offs, as the numbers quoted are net not cost. My guess is $93b based off engineering companies who built it.

It was going to cut into uncle Ruprect's profits....We all know the reason for why it was abandoned to the cost & detriment of every Aussie household & business.

 

[Power Raid]

It was going to cut into uncle Ruprect's profits....We all know the reason for why it was abandoned to the cost & detriment of every Aussie household & business.

It is great to come up with conspiracy theories.

However when have you heard of a $100+b project commencing from a back of the envelope economic study by two people with no experience. Then one of the two turkeys, say “we don’t need experience or expertise, we can do it ourselves”.

For the records, I don’t think the Libs managed it well either. It should have been a partnership with one or more private enterprises.

Did NZ go it alone or have partnership expertise?

 

[Procrastinator35]

It is great to come up with conspiracy theories.

However when have you heard of a $100+b project commencing from a back of the envelope economic study by two people with no experience. Then one of the two turkeys, say “we don’t need experience or expertise, we can do it ourselves”.

For the records, I don’t think the Libs managed it well either. It should have been a partnership with one or more private enterprises.

Did NZ go it alone or have partnership expertise?

Sounds like a piece of made-up Murdoch propagnda.

I'm aware of Turnbulls' accusation in labelling Rudd's opinions on Murdoch's scuppering of the NBN as 'Conspiracy theory'....But that label isn't helpful in analysing the facts; & merely reeks of yet more smearing propaganda tactics, in order to silence the debate....Conspiring happens at corporate level quite often. It's cut-throat business after-all.

Rudd: Here's proof Murdoch ruined me to sink NBN

Kevin Rudd believes he has "key evidence" media mogul Ruper Murdoch was determined to kill off Labor's National Broadband Network (NBN).

thenewdaily.com.au

 

[Hawk Dork]

It is great to come up with conspiracy theories.

However when have you heard of a $100+b project commencing from a back of the envelope economic study by two people with no experience. Then one of the two turkeys, say “we don’t need experience or expertise, we can do it ourselves”.

For the records, I don’t think the Libs managed it well either. It should have been a partnership with one or more private enterprises.

Did NZ go it alone or have partnership expertise?

The NBN would have been built by Telstra for free (with Telstras profit) if Howard didnt privatise it

 

[Power Raid]

The NBN would have been built by Telstra for free (with Telstras profit) if Howard didnt privatise it

The Telstra privatisation was a failure in structure

The infrastructure arm should have been spun out separate from the retail

That may finally be remedied with the sale of the NBN. The 5G network should be wrapped up in the infrastructure spin out.

 

[Dav]

We'd probably still have international ODIs and T20s on FTA if it wasn't for Murdoch and the Libs being in bed with him and allowing Foxtel to bypass the anti siphoning laws where all home tests and limited overs matches are supposed to be on FTA.

It was also one of the reasons the NBN was nobbled under the Libs as high speed internet would have negatively impacted Foxtel's market share, Kevin Rudd basically said as much in an interview a few years ago. Under Labor the plan for the NBN was fibre to the premises but then under the Liberals that got scaled back to fibre to the node under the guise of cutting costs but fibre to the node is not much better than the broadband we had previously.

That's why we see so many ads for 5G internet now as that offers the high speed internet that the NBN should have provided, if the NBN was implemented properly we wouldn't need 5G.

I love listening to or reading Big Kev's opinions in the last few years. He brings up the NBN thing all the time and I can't believe the Libs haven't been held accountable.

 

[Plugger35]

There was a tech expert on the radio here that said Huawei were going to build a great 5G network in Australia but that got axed due to all the paranoia a few years ago about Huawei being a front for China to spy on Western countries, America banned Huawei from operating there and Australia followed suit.

He was very critical of the Australian govt's decision to knock back Huawei and go with a hodgepodge of telcos building the 5G network including Telstra.

I've never heard a tech expert say a good thing about Telstra in regards to anything, they're always critical of them, slow, expensive, inept etc.

Guess who is in charge of the AFL's website, Telstra, and it's one of the worst websites on the internet, there were better websites back in the 90s.

 

[Plugger35]

I love listening to or reading Big Kev's opinions in the last few years. He brings up the NBN thing all the time and I can't believe the Libs haven't been held accountable.

You won't see much criticism in the Australian media of the NBN debacle or Cricket Australia selling ODIs and T20s to Foxtel as most of the media outlets are run by Murdoch, you will see a lot of ads on those media outlets for Kayo though which is part of Foxtel.

 

[Bomberboyokay]

You won't see much criticism in the Australian media of the NBN debacle or Cricket Australia selling ODIs and T20s to Foxtel as most of the media outlets are run by Murdoch, you will see a lot of ads on those media outlets for Kayo though which is part of Foxtel.

It's a coincidence the big newspapers are owned by News Corp (Foxtel), Nine (Nine) and Seven West Media (Seven)

Brands Archive - NewsCorp Australia

www.newscorpaustralia.com

Brands of Nine

We are a leading multi-platform media network, engaging audiences across news, business & finance, lifestyle, entertainment & sport.

www.nineforbrands.com.au

About | Seven West Media

www.sevenwestmedia.com.au

 

[Billy ray]

I personally like the nbn. Ive gone from an adsl connection (yes adsl not adsl2) to getting 49 down and 22 up (maximum i can get) and it is great for everything i need.

 

[Hawk Dork]

The Telstra privatisation was a failure in structure

The infrastructure arm should have been spun out separate from the retail

That may finally be remedied with the sale of the NBN. The 5G network should be wrapped up in the infrastructure spin out.

It was a failure because we cut it up before they built the "real" NBN for free (the one NZ has )

 

[Power Raid]

It was a failure because we cut it up before they built the "real" NBN for free (the one NZ has )

again the NZ govt did the right thing and partnered with industry rather than starting from scratch. they may have also completed a feasibility and scoped the works.

what a difference planning and expertise has.

 

[Hawk Dork]

again the NZ govt did the right thing and partnered with industry rather than starting from scratch. they may have also completed a feasibility and scoped the works.

what a difference planning and expertise has.

There was plenty of planning in Australias NBN but the plan was for sabotage

 

[Gough]

again the NZ govt did the right thing and partnered with industry rather than starting from scratch. they may have also completed a feasibility and scoped the works.

what a difference planning and expertise has.

If a remember correctly your objection to the ALP NBN plan was the sophisticated and reasoned opinion that people want "free shit" and you didn't think that was right.

 

[Hawk Dork]

What if Australia taxed its resources like Norway ?

 

[Power Raid]

If a remember correctly your objection to the ALP NBN plan was the sophisticated and reasoned opinion that people want "free shit" and you didn't think that was right.

Rudd was quick to learn that "free shit" was popular with the electorate; be it the wheel of fortune $1k cash give away, the NBN or giving away tax payers money to African nations in an attempt to buy a job heading up the UN. Howard is also guilty of this being the middle class welfare and Scomo with sports grants. "Free shit" can be replaced by pork barreling if you prefer a more traditional terminology.





Rudd came up with a $4.3b NBN program working in partnership with industry like NZ. On announcing this, he realised how popular it was but there was one major issue.......industry said his back of the envelope numbers were not accurate and it would cost way more. Now Rudd was in a political pickle, after promising something he couldn't retract it and he also couldn't be seen having cost blow outs before it began.

No one was getting in the way of his ego or his vote, so in line with his "Rat Fckrs" and "Pay Back" comments against Chinese and the mining industry, he told the industry experts they were wrong and he didn't need expertise and experience to build the NBN. After all, he didn't need expertise or experience to complete the back of the envelope scoping and feasibility on the plane.

To camouflage his original mistake he expanded the projectto a $40b-50b project which he understood would win even more "free shit" votes.






A sensible person, like NZ, would have worked with industry to secure expertise and experience. Properly scope and cost a project and then launch.

One area I have always been in favour, is just like power, water, sewerage, underground power projects etc, the cost burden includes a fee to the property owner. This ensures that the wealthy property owners pay for the infrastructure that increases the utility of their property. I feel wealthy property owners shouldn't be leaning on the tax payer for subsidies......especially to young tax payers desperately saving to enter the property market.

Further, by charging an on-cost to property owners, it creates accountability. As people will hold the project and the managers to account in terms of quality, timing, reliability and price if they incurred a free. But of course, accountability is exactly what the government didn't want as that would be contrary to the need for vote buying.

Regardless of a fee on-costed to property owners, just look at the difference between nations that partnered with industry experts vs those that put votes ahead of sensible project management.





Lastly, if the full cost of the project ($90b-100b or even the current $50+b) was placed onto property owners (representing a $5k-$10k charge); would the project have been rolled out as it has been done?

A project of this scale deserved better than to be treated as a "free shit" pork barrel for votes.

 

[Gough]

That was quite literally a rehash of every single lie you've ever told about the NBN in one convnient post.