Thoughts on the Carlton Game

[cro_Magnum]

A win is a win at this time of year. The least said about this game the better and oh my god, Carlton are woeful and deserve favourtism for the spoon.

The good is we are still winning games without great input from Macca (tagged again today). Roo is playing and leading from the front (his Brownlow odds will be shortened again).

Now for Essendon who 1) don't have a great midfield but do have Lloyd and Hird and 2) can't run out 4 quarters and finally 3) shocking away from the confines of Telstra Dome.

another "danger" game. We seem to beat sides we shouldn't and lose to sides we shouldn't this year, but most other teams are doing the same.

 

[ant]

One interesting thing about the game was Craig's coaching.

He allowed Pagan to dictate the style of game all day (heavy flooding) and was more re-active rather than pro-active.

He actually acknowledged this in one of his after game interviews. His attitude was that it was good experience for the players to work through this and learn how to overcome it.

He admitted that it was a risk, but believed that now the players will believe that they can win when faced with a similar set of circumatances in the future.

His attitude is that if we are going to consistently be a good side - and he thinks we are a long way off of that - then it was necessary for us to face - and beat - such challenges.

It's hard not to like our new coach.

Bit of the old Chicago Bulls' Phil Jackson there, who early in his tenure in particular, didn't call timeouts at certain crucial stages in games, just so the players could work through situations themselves, under pressure and without direction. Not a bad idea, as long as used in the right game, of which this was one.

Now most has been said already, but I actually thought Jericho was alright in the last quarter, he led really hard and used his speed to provide an option. Unfortunately, sometimes the kick to him wasn't ideal. Not getting much game time though, so as mentioned, may be rotated out.

We definitely over-possessed the ball, but I think it was with the desire to play the 'risky' game, running trough the lines, that Craigy wants, so he won't be too unhappy, it's just a matter of continually working at it in different situations.

Obviously, we just needed a big, tall marking forward to take a few grabs in the 50 and collapse the zone Carlton were employing, but of course, we don't have that and they utilized their loose man/men rather well.

Thankfully we were able to turn that around in the last and get Welshy free and on the lead into space. Phew.

Overall, as DT said, it was rather pleasing to win a tight, scrappy affair, especially one where we were favourites and were the subject of shut down tactics. The boys will learn something and be better for it.

 

[- PC -]

Didnt watch the game or listen on radio.. Margaret River wineries were more attractive. But I will make a few comments on comments..

I assume Reilly is not getting game time because Burton is playing wing?

If NC thinks slugging through a game like that( with the possibility of losing ) is ok..then why not play some youngsters?

Did NC initiate the huddle against the flood? Or is that a secret weapon for a finals campaign?

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

One interesting thing about the game was Craig's coaching.

He allowed Pagan to dictate the style of game all day (heavy flooding) and was more re-active rather than pro-active.

He actually acknowledged this in one of his after game interviews. His attitude was that it was good experience for the players to work through this and learn how to overcome it.

He admitted that it was a risk, but believed that now the players will believe that they can win when faced with a similar set of circumatances in the future.

His attitude is that if we are going to consistently be a good side - and he thinks we are a long way off of that - then it was necessary for us to face - and beat - such challenges.

It's hard not to like our new coach.

Yep, I agree

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

Agreed - I believe Perrie is avaluable "utility" to this club whose 100% efforts EVERY week should be applauded not ridiculed.

He will have a purple patch and hold onto every ball and kick 5-6 goals - next week drop sitters - but the fact is his effort does not vary at all week to week ;)

and therein lies the problem. He never changes. He has started the season off ordinary and continued on week by week. I have an idea, why don't the AFC put me at CHF, I will definitaley provide a contest. Mind you, it's about all I will provide, but apparently that's all we expect from a CHF at Adelaide.

If people at the AFC are happy with 12 goals in 10 games from our main focal point then I give up.

EDIT When Carey was still playing weren't we hearing reports that Perries game was suffereing becuase he wasn't being used as the main focal point. Now he is our primary forward his game is suffering because he should be used as our 2nd or 3rd forward. FFS, people have to stop making excuses for this guy, he just isn't up to the standard. I hope I am proven wrong but I have seen nothing this year to suggest otherwise.

 

[noddy]

I've been of this opinion so far this year......but at some point he needs to stop being just a target and actually take a mark

Same with me MD & some of those marks he dropped were pretty much standard at primary school level.

Still a wins a win & we have the 4 points.

 

[Mego Red]

FFS, people have to stop making excuses for this guy, he just isn't up to the standard. I hope I am proven wrong but I have seen nothing this year to suggest otherwise.

Yeah, I hate to say it - but I agree. We are carrying too much mediocrity. Perrie has proven he won't make it. Done. Eventually, we'll say the same of Skippy and Doughty - good solid triers who shouldn't be in a top-line side. Unfortunately - we still carry a few of those on our list.

Time for our three forwards to be Watts, Welsh and McGregor. Rotate Henschel, Bock, Bassett and Rutten as the key defenders.

 

[drakeyv2]

That's the 5th game I have been to this year & the only one that was a decent game was the Port game. 4 out of 5 have been absolute rubbish.

I didn't spend $250 to watch that crap all year.

 

[noddy]

That's the 5th game I have been to this year & the only one that was a decent game was the Port game. 4 out of 5 have been absolute rubbish.

I didn't spend $250 to watch that crap all year.

Guess you have never been to a real down in the mud dog fight scrap at a local SANFL ground where a 5 goal haul would be enough to win the game.

Let's take the 4 points with a smile whether or not it was an ugly game to watch.

What would we rather have 4 or 5 games won by participating in an ugly game or 4 or 5 lost by participating in a flashy game with plenty of skills on show ??

 

[GoSarge]

I'll just bring up a few points. I'd be interested to see what others think.

Point 1 - What does a team do when thew opposition is playing a loose man (or 2) in defence ? The crows opted to keep Bassett loose across half back, leaving Digby free to roam in our back half wherever he pleased. My thoughts - Damn, get Bassett down loose across half forward and try to make Digby more accountable. Too many times, we had the ball 60m out looking in to a crowded forward line with Bassett sitting at half back by himself.

Point 2 - Shame on Carlton for making that a pathetic ugly game! The AFL should make Carlton refund the price of the entry ticket to everyone that attended the game.

Point 3 - If it wasn't for Simon Goodwin, we could easily be 4-6 now and not 6-4. How good has this bloke been for us in recent weeks ?

Point 4 - Perrie didnt have a good game, but he has to learn to play within his limits. Just create a strong contest, and if you mark it - go back and kick it long quickly. Nothing cute, just play the percentages. It's when he tries to be creative, he gets himself in trouble (Although I did like it when he hit Bassett on the chest 40m out from goal with that mongrel punt ! )

 

[Jars458]

Against the Kangaroos the conditions were shoddy so skills were expected to be down- unlike the perfect conditions we experienced today;

While against Collingwood I thought that while it was tight we were the better of two poor sides still finding their feet in 2005, and the big difference was the silky skills of McLeod with 4 excellent goals. Today we didn't see anything out of the ordinary that told the difference, other than Welsh's 2 late ones he nabbed. Other than that we won via pure grunt, fighting fire with fire.

It's rare that we win like that, especially considering it was our second tier that did most of the damage.

I know what you mean but I can't be happy when our skills were so poor

Bassett made a couple of shockers.

We did seem to win more of the ball though.

 

[Mad Dog]

I'll just bring up a few points. I'd be interested to see what others think.

Point 1 - What does a team do when thew opposition is playing a loose man (or 2) in defence ? The crows opted to keep Bassett loose across half back, leaving Digby free to roam in our back half wherever he pleased. My thoughts - Damn, get Bassett down loose across half forward and try to make Digby more accountable. Too many times, we had the ball 60m out looking in to a crowded forward line with Bassett sitting at half back by himself.)

4/4 GS.....some excellent points.
I didn't hear NC's press conference yesterday, but I did hear the quick interview after the game with The Ferrett. NC admitted that he rolled the dice a bit by not manning up their loose defenders, but he said he used it as a learning experience and said to the players....let's try to maintain our structure, and practice beating the flood by being smarter and patient across HF with our entries.....especially since he said he couldn't see Carlton scoring with our loose men. He basically said....we know how to match up and play conventionally against the flood....let's try something different that we may need down the track.....Full marks to NC if that is the case....a good blend of the imperative to win, and a learning exercise.

Point 2 - Shame on Carlton for making that a pathetic ugly game! The AFL should make Carlton refund the price of the entry ticket to everyone that attended the game.)

Pagan said after the game....give me a few draft picks back and I wont flood.....

Point 3 - If it wasn't for Simon Goodwin, we could easily be 4-6 now and not 6-4. How good has this bloke been for us in recent weeks ?)

Goody has been fantastic....we've really missed him over he last 2 years

Point 4 - Perrie didnt have a good game, but he has to learn to play within his limits. Just create a strong contest, and if you mark it - go back and kick it long quickly. Nothing cute, just play the percentages. It's when he tries to be creative, he gets himself in trouble (Although I did like it when he hit Bassett on the chest 40m out from goal with that mongrel punt ! )

I think this is a good point.......Perrie can be a very good, solid AFL player. He needs to work to his strengths and not try to do the flairy stuff. Someone needs to tell him, lead up the ground, take the mark, go back and look for a lead....if nothing comes immeadiately....kick it 50 meters.....good percentage play.

 

[Mong]

I'll just bring up a few points. I'd be interested to see what others think.

Point 1 - What does a team do when thew opposition is playing a loose man (or 2) in defence ? The crows opted to keep Bassett loose across half back, leaving Digby free to roam in our back half wherever he pleased. My thoughts - Damn, get Bassett down loose across half forward and try to make Digby more accountable. Too many times, we had the ball 60m out looking in to a crowded forward line with Bassett sitting at half back by himself.

But doesn't that just crowd our forward line even more, while opening up Carlton's at the same time?

I believe Pagan would have been happy if we did send Bassett forward leaving Carlton with nice big open spaces up forward for them.

 

[ant]

Agreed ****, I think that's what Ayresy used to do and most of the times it creates more trouble that it solves.

The coach has to decide when it's beneficial to man up the loose man and when not to. If their spare defender is causing more problems than ours, then you have to re-assess the strategy.

Craig made the right decision yesterday.

 

[drakeyv2]

Guess you have never been to a real down in the mud dog fight scrap at a local SANFL ground where a 5 goal haul would be enough to win the game.

Let's take the 4 points with a smile whether or not it was an ugly game to watch.

What would we rather have 4 or 5 games won by participating in an ugly game or 4 or 5 lost by participating in a flashy game with plenty of skills on show ??

I've been to plenty of in the mud scap games blaa blaa blaa.

Where was the mud yesterday? Perfect day, perfect ground, wind advantage worth 1/2 a goal & that crap was served up.

 

[RooDog]

Rutten on Fevola as I said pre match was always a bad idea

im going to totally disagree with everyone on this one, i think we are all being fairly harsh on Benny here, Fevola kicked what, 4 goals. didnt see all the game just highlight but of those 4 goals, 3 were on a fast lead, which is pretty much impossible for the full back to stop, only way we can stop that is by stopping their midfield. I actually blame the ruckman/midfielders for these goals, no one was there to stand in the hole, someone shouldve beent here to help Benny out. the other one was from a terribly soft free kick, i thought benny did all right actually... just my opinion though

 

[Crowked]

My only thoughts on this game was thank Christ we won.

To lose a game of that poor quality is about as bad as it gets. To win however, at least we have the 4 points and now we can move on and forget about it.

At least now NC wont be the one all the some called experts want to attach the lack of quality of that game too. It seems we are involved in quite a few really crap games, but not all of them are our fault. Something the gurus in Melbourne have been pushing for while. I regularly go to Melbourne for work and it was really pi$$ing me off that NC constantly gets the blame for that sort of crap game on their radio programs. After all we surely arent to blame for opposition playing with 14 defenders like Pagan did and others have done before against us.

 

[GoSarge]

But doesn't that just crowd our forward line even more, while opening up Carlton's at the same time?

I believe Pagan would have been happy if we did send Bassett forward leaving Carlton with nice big open spaces up forward for them.

Having Bassett free across OUR half forward line (outside 50) would enable us to use him as a link man to go through and also, it may draw Digby outside of the 50m arc to try man him up if we used him often enough.

I am in no way condoning sending Bassett down deep inside our 50 to man him up, which would just cause more congestion as you suggest, thus playing in to Pagan's hands.

When we are 70m out from OUR goal and Bassett is loose in OUR defence - I just don't see the value.

 

[GoSarge]

Agreed ****, I think that's what Ayresy used to do and most of the times it creates more trouble that it solves.

The coach has to decide when it's beneficial to man up the loose man and when not to. If their spare defender is causing more problems than ours, then you have to re-assess the strategy.

Craig made the right decision yesterday.

Again, just to clarify, dont man him up, just sit the direct opponent 50--> 60m out from goal and direct a lot of the play through him. Try to draw the loose defender out from the defensive 50m. When a guy plays loose in defence like that - you HAVE to make him accountable, otherwise he will do it all day. The easiest gig in footy is to play a kick behind the play and pick up easy touches.

 

[drakeyv2]

My only thoughts on this game was thank Christ we won.

To lose a game of that poor quality is about as bad as it gets. To win however, at least we have the 4 points and now we can move on and forget about it.

At least now NC wont be the one all the some called experts want to attach the lack of quality of that game too. It seems we are involved in quite a few really crap games, but not all of them are our fault. Something the gurus in Melbourne have been pushing for while. I regularly go to Melbourne for work and it was really pi$$ing me off that NC constantly gets the blame for that sort of crap game on their radio programs. After all we surely arent to blame for opposition playing with 14 defenders like Pagan did and others have done before against us.

I agree, I was very happy we won.

I'm not having a go at Craig specificaly or blaiming him for Sunday. I am just sick of watching this flooding, floating scrum crap, AFL footy has become.

You used to laugh when you watched the mini league coz they had 30 kids around the ball. Now the closest thing you get to open footy IS the mini league.

 

[ant]

Having Bassett free across OUR half forward line (outside 50) would enable us to use him as a link man to go through and also, it may draw Digby outside of the 50m arc to try man him up if we used him often enough.

I am in no way condoning sending Bassett down deep inside our 50 to man him up, which would just cause more congestion as you suggest, thus playing in to Pagan's hands.

When we are 70m out from OUR goal and Bassett is loose in OUR defence - I just don't see the value.

Well, Carlton was always going to struggle to score more than us with Bass loose in defence. And with Fevola a danger in space on the lead, the last thing we wanted was the Blues to have an open forward line.

Of course, you make a salient point, making Whitnall/Morell accountable was an option and maybe that could have caused the Blues a few problems.

Still, unless the Hound actually played as a forward, I'm not sure he would have been of much value around half forward, 50-60m out. I think Carlton would have just dropped another back and persisted with Morell/Lance loose.

 

[Crowked]

I agree, I was very happy we won.

I'm not having a go at Craig specificaly or blaiming him for Sunday. I am just sick of watching this flooding, floating scrum crap, AFL footy has become.

You used to laugh when you watched the mini league coz they had 30 kids around the ball. Now the closest thing you get to open footy IS the mini league.

Yeh, I know, its shiit. Unfortunately its here for the long term I think. Unless they introduce zones on the ground and limit the number of players in them, there will always be flooding from here on. Some clubs recognise its the only way they can win some games. Pagan on the weekend was a prime example. He knows he hasnt got the team to take us on in a free flowing game, and so the flooding was his only chance to win. I know it was ugly but would you rather an ugly but fairly even, competative game or a free flowing blowout? I think its here to stay, and we need to develop better ways to counter it.

Oh, and I am by no means suggesting it was all Pagans fault or that it isnt ever our fault, we have definately played our fair share of flooding crappy football too.

 

[Stiffy_18]

Excellent summary there Bockchoy.

Thommos' goalkicking has to head the negatives. 4 shots on goal, and they were missing by more and more with each shot.

That last one from a gimme set shot that went out of bounds on the full was as bad as it gets. if you watch how he was holding the ball, all you could say was WTF?? Work has to be done there.

Bring back Darren Jarman as a kicking coach.

Our kicking at goals has been ********house and players that you thought were good set shots in the last couple of years are the ones that are missing.

We need a kicking coach because our players have no routine when taking set shots.

 

[Stiffy_18]

this makes no sense. the point remains he is good for an honest contest, he shouldn't be our key forward. that we have no one else, to allow him to play his proper role of 3rd tall, is no reason to drop him altogether. this damning of almost everyone but him.

I do not beleive you can say perrie is the reason for our malfunctional forward line, rather he is one of few holding it together with a bit of effort and guts.

Well said

 

[Stiffy_18]

Bit of the old Chicago Bulls' Phil Jackson there, who early in his tenure in particular, didn't call timeouts at certain crucial stages in games, just so the players could work through situations themselves, under pressure and without direction. Not a bad idea, as long as used in the right game, of which this was one.

Good old zen master .

Biggest ego going around but still a pretty good coach and has 9 rings to prove it.

Now most has been said already, but I actually thought Jericho was alright in the last quarter, he led really hard and used his speed to provide an option. Unfortunately, sometimes the kick to him wasn't ideal. Not getting much game time though, so as mentioned, may be rotated out.

I actually agree. His first contest in the 4th quarter on the outer HFF was a bit soft. I didn't think he went at it hard enough in the air. He dropped a mark, Carlton player got the footy and they went on and kicked a gaol. To the lad's credit he knuckled down after that and actually set up a scoring shot to Thommo and set up another goal. From memory he had 4 touches and spent sweet ******** all time on the ground. I thought he did OK for the time he spent on the ground and the same goes for Reilly.