Thread for supporters who feel lost

[geelong_crazy26]

4 finals campaigns in 5 years for 2 finals wins probably has something to do with it. It's the apparent inevitability of finals failure that instills the notion that Geelong has been competitive without having the capacity to challenge.

If we are factoring in 2012-14 then let's throw in 2011. He had the job of phasing out 11 AA players during that time and a lot of retiring premiership stars while maintaining a balanced and competitive list. He was cleaning up the post premiership era and snagged a flag while cleaning up bombers mess. The side we have now is completely different to the side those years ago and can't be compared in any way, just look at the sides for this obvious observation. We also made a prelim which is very competitive in itself.

If your going to say comments about those campaigns, then put the whole picture into context of the 11 AA players he lost along the way and the retiring of many other stars he has juggled. As well as the obvious that the team has changed a lot and never really settled much till now with all the talent lost.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

3.
2 to the Saints, the first of which got them to 3 Grand Finals the second which they're currently in the midst of but already seems promising. 1 to the Dogs who won a flag and will compete for many more (and by compete I actually genuinely mean compete not the 'compete' like some Geelong supporters on here think we have in the last 5 years).

Well isn't that impressive in all those years.

 

[BlightysCats]

Well isn't that impressive in all those years.

I would've thought 4 Grand finals for 1 win out of 2 and a half rebuilds in the last 17 years isn't too bad for clubs notoriously awful and devoid of success.

 

[BlightysCats]

Well isn't that impressive in all those years.

Why don't you head over here, https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/thre...rt-the-current-direction-of-the-club.1161218/
I think it's more your scene.

 

[Bobby_]

If we are factoring in 2012-14 then let's throw in 2011. He had the job of phasing out 11 AA players during that time and a lot of retiring premiership stars while maintaining a balanced and competitive list.

Again with this crap!
Ling, Ottens, Wojak, Mooney, Scarlett all retired on their own terms.

We even helped Wojak get to 200 games when he was barely VFL worthy and running on fumes.

The coach tried to get every last drop of energy out of Bartel, Stokes and Kelly and is doing so again with Lonergan given there is only three fit and viable key defenders, one of which has to play forward because the club failed with Brown, Walker, Kersten and Vardy.

The only blokes who were pushed out, and it showed, were Milburn and Johnson. The others were well over the hill and holding us back.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

The club didn't fail with them. They were duds.

 

[Bobby_]

The club didn't fail with them. They were duds.

You are in the wrong thread.
Go to the 'The club is heading in the right direction' thread.

 

[dazbroncos]

This thread just keeps on giving....

oh the joy....

Go Catters

 

[Art Vandelay_]

You are in the wrong thread.
Go to the 'The club is heading in the right direction' thread.

Nope. I don't agree with the two threads as it creates segregation when we should be striving for more inclusion. To that end I'll post where I want

 

[Gavin Excell]

People tend to talk like we just finished the season 7-8th and fell off the perch. We made a preliminary final and finished third. How finishing third and making a preliminary final falls into the "floating around and just competitive" bracket is quite incorrect and just rediculous to really say. Anyone who makes a prelim is only improvements away from a premiership and needs to throw everything at it while they are around.

Sides have and do go 50-70 years without winning premierships. Please go ask doggies and saints supporters how many "rebuilds" they have gone through combined for just 1 doggies flag. These so called easy as pie plans where you just drop down the ladder for 4-5 years and then walk back to a premiership is complete naive uneducated crap that distances so far from reality it isn't funny. St kilda Bulldogs have about a combined total of 100+ years of rebuilds for one premiership a piece, and Melbourne aren't much better, go ask them about this simple and straight forward method for a flag. They are just so hard and rare to win, while your up and about and in the top four you need to throw the kitchen sink at it, then once you drop down again you simply rebuild.

I guess the thing is while we made a preliminary final, on reflection the form around it wasnt great. Fell in v Hawks who then got exposed in their next final and then flogged and uncompetitive v Swans. I could come at your thinking if we gave more in the prelim but it seemed a depressingly similar finals performance

 

[Partridge]

I guess the thing is while we made a preliminary final, on reflection the form around it wasnt great. Fell in v Hawks who then got exposed in their next final and then flogged and uncompetitive v Swans. I could come at your thinking if we gave more in the prelim but it seemed a depressingly similar finals performance

Yep. The only way we'll know if there is genuine improvement is if they perform better at the same stage this year. Rightly or wrongly the question marks will remain until finals. If they make it.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

I would've thought 4 Grand finals for 1 win out of 2 and a half rebuilds in the last 17 years isn't too bad for clubs notoriously awful and devoid of success.

The draft has been around for 31 years and they have combined between them st kilda Melbourne Bulldogs only 1 premiership which took them all 31 years of rebuilding. That's terrible figures for a so called easy and simple rebuild that has you competing for a flag. Why have these clubs won 1 between them in 31 years of these easy rebuilds? The way you portray just bottoming out and drafting and then competing for a premiership is the most naive simpleton concepts that clearly have a lot more to it. While your competing for a premiership in the top four you need to give it everything to win a flag, which is what the club is doing while it's contending now. Then after we will begin looking to build again.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

I guess the thing is while we made a preliminary final, on reflection the form around it wasnt great. Fell in v Hawks who then got exposed in their next final and then flogged and uncompetitive v Swans. I could come at your thinking if we gave more in the prelim but it seemed a depressingly similar finals performance

Your whole logic is that we only won a final by a small margin, hawthorn where the reigning triple premiership team and a very good side. A final win is a final win, stop the nonsense of we didn't win a final well enough. A final win is always impressive and especially against the hawks at the MCG. all of the mark Thompson coached finals sides had close scares in finals series, we almost lost the 07 prelim by a kick.

 

[TheWoodenSlug]

I heard Damien Barrett last night on The Footy Show mention that Hawthorn are trying to lure Steven May over at the end of the year. Since they gave up a million picks, including this years first round pick, to get O'Meara, I assume they would have to part with next years first round pick (at least) to get it done. The deal may not get done, but (if true) it shows to me that they are at least willing to again part with next years first rounder.

I've seen Hawthorn referred to many times on this board as a club that is smart with is list management decisions, and a club that we should be looking to emulate (hard to argue against, given their success). Seems to me, though, that they are following a very similar path to us after a long period of success in prioritising bringing in ready made players over hitting the draft. Are they still smart operators and just adapting to the times, or have they too lost their marbles?

Interested in peoples thoughts on this.

 

[BlightysCats]

I heard Damien Barrett last night on The Footy Show mention that Hawthorn are trying to lure Steven May over at the end of the year. Since they gave up a million picks, including this years first round pick, to get O'Meara, I assume they would have to part with next years first round pick (at least) to get it done. The deal may not get done, but (if true) it shows to me that they are at least willing to again part with next years first rounder.

I've seen Hawthorn referred to many times on this board as a club that is smart with is list management decisions, and a club that we should be looking to emulate (hard to argue against, given their success). Seems to me, though, that they are following a very similar path to us after a long period of success in prioritising bringing in ready made players over hitting the draft. Are they still smart operators and just adapting to the times, or have they too lost their marbles?

Interested in peoples thoughts on this.

Hawthorn's ready made players they're recruiting recently are kids including and if they get May, they are recruiting for the future not the now, all the guys we're getting in are the wrong side of 26 we're desperately trying to win a flag in the next few years while Selwood and Hawkins are still close to their prime, we wont, but that's what the club expects us to believe.

 

[Partridge]

I've seen Hawthorn referred to many times on this board as a club that is smart with is list management decisions, and a club that we should be looking to emulate (hard to argue against, given their success). Seems to me, though, that they are following a very similar path to us after a long period of success in prioritising bringing in ready made players over hitting the draft. Are they still smart operators and just adapting to the times, or have they too lost their marbles?

Interested in peoples thoughts on this.

Historically, there's nothing new about Hawthorn trading out premiership players. They've done this a lot. As for bringing in ready made players now, I'd be against it, but it's not my club so don't really care.

 

[BlightysCats]

The draft has been around for 31 years and they have combined between them st kilda Melbourne Bulldogs only 1 premiership which took them all 31 years of rebuilding. That's terrible figures for a so called easy and simple rebuild that has you competing for a flag. Why have these clubs won 1 between them in 31 years of these easy rebuilds? The way you portray just bottoming out and drafting and then competing for a premiership is the most naive simpleton concepts that clearly have a lot more to it. While your competing for a premiership in the top four you need to give it everything to win a flag, which is what the club is doing while it's contending now. Then after we will begin looking to build again.

Bomber Thompson's Geelong created the blueprint for how a full rebuild was/is done, before then no team had rebuilt as comprehensively or in such a methodical planned way. That began in the year 2000 and since then The Bulldogs and Saints combined have done 2 and a half of such rebuilds with 4 GF's and a flag the result. Geelong's current system of list management has returned 2 finals wins from 8 finals in 5 years. In short traditional rebuilds are proven to have had success, building your team, rather than topping it off, with mercenaries has delivered absolutely nothing.

 

[dazbroncos]

Hawthorn's ready made players they're recruiting recently are kids including and if they get May, they are recruiting for the future not the now, all the guys we're getting in are the wrong side of 26 we're desperately trying to win a flag in the next few years while Selwood and Hawkins are still close to their prime, we wont, but that's what the club expects us to believe.

MERCINARIES I smell a GIANT double standard.

Mercs for GFC, they are kid recruits for the future at Hawthorn.

GPS 101.

GO Catters

 

[BlightysCats]

MERCINARIES I smell a GIANT double standard.

Mercs for GFC, they are kid recruits for the future at Hawthorn.

GPS 101.

GO Catters

They're mercenaries at Hawthorn too, but at least they're kids so Hawthorn have years to incorporate them in to their systems and mould them in to the players they want them to be, as I said they've recruited for the future we're recruiting for the now.

 

[BlightysCats]

MERCINARIES I smell a GIANT double standard.

Mercs for GFC, they are kid recruits for the future at Hawthorn.

GPS 101.

GO Catters

Also why aren't you in the other thread I created for supporters like yourself?

 

[dazbroncos]

They're mercenaries at Hawthorn too, but at least they're kids so Hawthorn have years to incorporate them in to their systems and mould them in to the players they want them to be, as I said they've recruited for the future we're recruiting for the now.

Id say that PFD, Hendo and 2E on exposed form have fitted pretty well into our systems.

Go Catters

 

[Partridge]

They're mercenaries at Hawthorn too, but at least they're kids so Hawthorn have years to incorporate them in to their systems and mould them in to the players they want them to be, as I said they've recruited for the future we're recruiting for the now.

I doubt it's going to work for either.

 

[dazbroncos]

Also why aren't you in the other thread I created for supporters like yourself?

"Supporters like myself?"

You mean a GFC supporter. A supporter that supports the club but also does not mind looking at it critically when the occasion calls for it but is not myopic in that criticism. Thats what we all are isn't it? Or you prefer some other moniker? Im not sure what you think of yourself but im a GFC member and supporter. Plain and true. Just the same as everyone most everyone else on here. By your comment you seem to feel otherwise.


That thread you speak of got locked. Was unnecessary. We have plenty of threads to discuss GFC already in existence on a variety of topics.

You have no issue shitfighting/ramming your POV down peoples throats to the detriment of the overall attitude of the board itself in a broader sense ( not the opinion but the persistent, argumentative combative presentation of it) on one hand but then on the other hand you want to keep people out of your own conversations.

Cant have it both ways.

After all, we are all GFC supporters here right?

oh.. and GFC supporters will post where ever the hell we want. You get zero say in that.

Carry on.

Go Catters

 

[Catman]

Id say that PFD, Hendo and 2E on exposed form have fitted pretty well into our systems.

I'd hardly say they were on the wrong side of 26 also.

I'm curious, what actually is the wrong side of 26?

 

[Partridge]

Id say that PFD, Hendo and 2E on exposed form have fitted pretty well into our systems.

They have, certainly the first two (one game for Tuohy is not quite sufficient sample size). But you have to include all the others too. When you include everyone - a partial success in Rivers, complete disasters in McIntosh and Clark, jury still out on Scott Selwood and Smith - I'd say it's not proven as successful just yet.