Tim Lane - Time for a Tasmanian Team

[The Majestic]

really ??? and here i was thinking those games were played on the tiny North Hobart mudpit

Tasmania played Queensland at Bellerive Oval in about 1994 or so, Dunstall was playing for Queensland on that day, and I think Lynch was playing for Tassie as well. I think Tassie may have just won it, I cannot remember the result.

But you are correct North Hobart has seen it's fair share of SOO games, Bellerive has hosted the one that I know of which was the Tasmania/Queensland game.

 

[RememberMe]

What are you on about? Seriously mate, that is all over the shop.. jiberish!!

As for the VFL side being the best Tas has to offer (with the kangas). Mate think long and hard about what you are saying.. Look at the talent from Tassie in the AFL as we speak.. ON VFL level of course it's the best but as far as the best actual players the state produces they are scattered around the nation in AFL clubs!!

Tassie one of the four great footy states of the country, and do deserve a team in the national competition.

I was only being sarcastic. If you would like to read my true opinion on this matter you could have a quick scan through the 20 odd pages in one of the other threads about an AFL side in Tasmania.
http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=292851&highlight=tasmania

 

[Rob]

I think the major advantage interstate clubs have is that they can pick and choose where they want to play, it helps a lot having their owners also own the stadium where they play. This is probably the biggest issue for clubs here, the cost of playing games.

We have a very large stadium in the MCG (100k) and a large stadium in TD (55k). MCG is owned by the MCC, they have no incentive to offer clubs a cheap and affordable venue to play games, they are still trying to pay off extensive upgrades to the stadium, none of which make any difference to most clubs who wont utilise the capacity.

TD is still owned by a third part organisation that is looking to make profits, they have no incentive to offer affordable games to clubs.

Like it or not, AFL forces us to play 2 home games at MCG, despite TD being our home ground. Like it or not, AFL would forces us to play 2 or 3 home games at TD even if MCG was our home ground. They wont let clubs play anywhere else.

We would be more profitable playing our home games from Arden Street just in front of our own members than it would be to play games at TD or MCG because they have horrendous overheads and are just not suited to a team of our supporter size. It would be like Eagles playing at MCG every week and getting 40k people to a 100k stadium. You would be lucky to break even on your home games.

What rot. While Victorian clubs pay running costs for venues, they don't pay rent. The WA clubs pay $3m in rent every year for a 3rd rate venue. That's not a horrendous overhead?

Realistically, if AFL is going to tell clubs where to play in Victoria then they need to do a collective barganing arrangement on behalf of all Victorian clubs with the stadium owners, otherwise free clubs up to play where they want to play.

This is really a hypothetical, because there's a zero chance of any Victorian club choosing to play at another Victorian venue, so it's never going to confront the AFL whether or not to approve it. But I would be surprised if a club made arrangements to play at another venue (assuming it met minimum requirements such as capacity, facilities and statutory requirements), the AFL would knock you back.
I think you're seriously underestimating how much it costs to build and maintain a sporting stadium. Not that you're the lone ranger there, Carlton made that mistake as well.
The problem isn't stadiums, it's lack of supporters. You've got the best stadiums in Australia to play out of, yet you're jealous of arrangements other clubs have to pay exorbidant rents for 3rd rate dungheaps? Imagine if you were paying $3m a year for the privilege of playing at Optus Oval? Then you'd have something to complain about.
Do better out of Arden St.....jeez, it would cost $50 million just to bring Arden St up to AFL standard! You're saying you'd rather see your club spend $50 million and play out of a far inferior stadium to the one you've got now? Interest alone would be more than your current stadium costs, and that doesn't include running costs of the 'new' Arden st.

 

[catman2006]

Sadly, there are too few companies in Tasmania of a size that would contribute significant financial support to a Tasmanian team. The reality is those companies cannot justify such an expenditure; they have been asked and have declined.
Secondly, there are too few corporates that would require of a local club corporate hospitality, which would add to the viability of a Tasmanian team.

Finding a major sponsor does not mean it has to be Tasmanian for a start.
Secondary sponsors all ready sponsor AFL Tasmania companies like the Federal Hotel Group, Jetstar,MBF,Auroa Energy,Toyota, Coca Cola there is a heap more.


All home games would have to be played in Tasmania and, assuming this means 11 home games, they could be split between Hobart and Launceston. Aurora Stadium accommodates 22,000, while Bellerive Oval would need considerable work done on it and accommodates only 15,000. The relocated club would never have a gate above 22,000 without there being substantial extra works conducted.


All games can be played at Auroa stadium, with a minor upgrade capacity could go to 30,000.



The third option is what is taking place now where a Melbourne club — Hawthorn — which has had a genuine attachment with Tasmania over many years, has entered into an arrangement to play four home games in Launceston.

Problem is not many Tasmanians want an existing team playing there for 15 million.

There is know doubt that Tasmania is not ready to have an AFL team in, but 3-5 years is a long time and anything could happen during that time.


Between sponsors, social clubs and membership Tasmanian team would be able to achieve or get very close to the 25 million target.

 

[Rob]

Finding a major sponsor does not mean it has to be Tasmanian for a start.
Secondary sponsors all ready sponsor AFL Tasmania companies like the Federal Hotel Group, Jetstar,MBF,Auroa Energy,Toyota, Coca Cola there is a heap more.

More to it than just a major sponsor. It's the 100-200 other companies that are prepared to shell out between $10k and $250k each for the corporate boxes and facilities that footy clubs need.

 

[catman2006]

More to it than just a major sponsor. It's the 100-200 other companies that are prepared to shell out between $10k and $250k each for the corporate boxes and facilities that footy clubs need.

Know doubt a pricing structure will have to be drawn up outlining what they need to achieve from this, from how many companies.

 

[Rob]

Know doubt a pricing structure will have to be drawn up outlining what they need to achieve from this, from how many companies.

Wihtout question, but it doesn't look like anyone's got the drive now to do the legwork required anyway.
Like i've said before, the best chance of Tassie getting an AFL side is getting 10-15,000 bums on seats at Devils matches

 

[RememberMe]

Wihtout question, but it doesn't look like anyone's got the drive now to do the legwork required anyway.
Like i've said before, the best chance of Tassie getting an AFL side is getting 10-15,000 bums on seats at Devils matches

Nobody is going to get behind the Kangaroos reserves side.

 

[Hawkk]

Obviously Jeff doesn't know Peter Hudson's phone number. Because it is he, as head of the AFL Live Task Force, who has the business plan in place for such a move.

Peter Hudson was the driving force behind the Hawthorn-Tasmania relationship.

Around 6-7 years ago Peter Hudson headed an inquiry - issued by the then premier, the late Jim Bacon into the viablity of a Tasmanian based side in the AFL - hence Kennett's statement on if it was viable it would have happened years ago. The findings established that a Tasmanian side was not viable from an economic perspective both now and into the future and that the best way Tasmania could become involved in the AFL is via a Victorian based club playing 2-3 home games in the state - hence the Hawthorn and St.Kilda home games in the state.

Peter Hudson is also involved with the HFC through MBF - the clubs 3rd sponsor.

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

And Tasmania's population and economy are forecast to grow much less quickly than the rest of the nation. This means that anything borderline now will be completely unviable in 30 years. An AFL team isn't close to viable now, much less so then.

 

[Hawkk]

Finding a major sponsor does not mean it has to be Tasmanian for a start.
Secondary sponsors all ready sponsor AFL Tasmania companies like the Federal Hotel Group, Jetstar,MBF,Auroa Energy,Toyota, Coca Cola there is a heap more.

Sources, most of these companies were asked if they would become involved the last time an enquiry into the viablity of a Tasmanian side was conducted.

All games can be played at Auroa stadium, with a minor upgrade capacity could go to 30,000.

Tasmanian politics board

Problem is not many Tasmanians want an existing team playing there for 15 million.

Hawthorn have 3,000 Tasmanian members, so there has to be some interest....

I don't think you guys quite understand the point, if a Tasmanian side was remotely viable the AFL would be jumping all over Tasmania - ala Gold Coast, the fact that AFL Tasmania gets limited funding from the AFL and that the AFL isn't even involved in home game contracts anymore, proves that in the AFL's eyes at least a Tasmania is off the radar.

Its not even talked up in the media.

There is know doubt that Tasmania is not ready to have an AFL team in, but 3-5 years is a long time and anything could happen during that time.

Tasmania's population is growing slower then the rest of Australia and its economic growth is only a touch above the national average (as per the December 06 quarter) - and even then its after years of decline and expected to dip again, if it isn't viable now its certainly won't be in the future.

Between sponsors, social clubs and membership Tasmanian team would be able to achieve or get very close to the 25 million target.

Close doesn't crack it.

The revenue required to field a competitive football club is growing dramatically by the year, using the Hawks for example, they have grown their revenue streams from a touch over 20,000,000 to 30,000,000 in the space of 5 years....25,000,000 is only the bottom end of the table today.

There are big questions over whether the Tasmanian economy is large enough to constantly sustain an AFL club in an increasingly growing industry year in year out.

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

Tasmania played Queensland at Bellerive Oval in about 1994 or so, Dunstall was playing for Queensland on that day, and I think Lynch was playing for Tassie as well. I think Tassie may have just won it, I cannot remember the result.

But you are correct North Hobart has seen it's fair share of SOO games, Bellerive has hosted the one that I know of which was the Tasmania/Queensland game.

Queensland-Northern Territory gave us quite a touch-up. I think that's the only AFL recognised game to have been at bellerive. All other Origin games, Fitzroy games, pre-season and practice matches were at North Hobart; with some practice matches at York Park (this is prior to Hawthorn choosing Launceston as their base) and West Park, maybe Devonport Oval.

 

[catman2006]

Sources, most of these companies were asked if they would become involved the last time an enquiry into the viablity of a Tasmanian side was conducted.



Tasmanian politics board



Hawthorn have 3,000 Tasmanian members, so there has to be some interest....

I don't think you guys quite understand the point, if a Tasmanian side was remotely viable the AFL would be jumping all over Tasmania - ala Gold Coast, the fact that AFL Tasmania gets limited funding from the AFL and that the AFL isn't even involved in home game contracts anymore, proves that in the AFL's eyes at least a Tasmania is off the radar.

Its not even talked up in the media.



Tasmania's population is growing slower then the rest of Australia and its economic growth is only a touch above the national average (as per the December 06 quarter) - and even then its after years of decline and expected to dip again, if it isn't viable now its certainly won't be in the future.



Close doesn't crack it.

The revenue required to field a competitive football club is growing dramatically by the year, using the Hawks for example, they have grown their revenue streams from a touch over 20,000,000 to 30,000,000 in the space of 5 years....25,000,000 is only the bottom end of the table today.

There are big questions over whether the Tasmanian economy is large enough to constantly sustain an AFL club in an increasingly growing industry year in year out.

1. They all ready sponsor AFL tasmania which is the governing body in Tasmania.
2. 3,000 members is not enough to pump 15 million into when the state has 500,000 people.
3. Tasmanian population has been growing now for a few years not by a huge amount but it's still growing and the economy has been doing well for last 5 years.
4. Unless they have done a study who knows how many members they will get, could be 45,000 and their is no problem or it could be 15,000 and they would be in trouble.
5. If Geelong and Port Adelaide can sustain a side, Tasmania could.

 

[fishmonger]

Interesting to see Kennett's rebutal in today's 'The Final Word'

http://www.realfooty.theage.com.au/realfooty/articles/2007/03/07/1173166799495.html

Finances make push for team on Apple Isle fruitless

Jeff Kennett
March 8, 2007

Jeff has a very short memory:

The case for the Melbourne Hawks

Melbourne was in a relatively strong financial position
In contrast, Hawthorn was suffering from mounting debts, and financial losses. It had struggled to obtain and maintain corporate sponsorship; at one point in 1992 not having a corporate sponsor in spite of having won the previous Grand Final.

 

[fishmonger]

Wihtout question, but it doesn't look like anyone's got the drive now to do the legwork required anyway.
Like i've said before, the best chance of Tassie getting an AFL side is getting 10-15,000 bums on seats at Devils matches

bigger crowds to VFL matches than AFL matches ?
I'd like to see that.

Do you think they'd expect 15,000 to a Devils match when they see that the threepeat premiers Sandringham get less than 1,000 to a game ?
I don't really blame them. People know where the action is at, and it is not VFL.

national competition = team from every state.

 

[Satchmo]

Jeff Kennett Vs Tim Lane......

Jeff winner . Tim Loser ....take your emotional BS somewhere else.!!

*waving Tim Goodbye*

 

[Tas]

Where there is a will there is a way.. It has been out of the news for far too long now! To make progress people need to beleive it is possible. All it takes is a few of the "big boys" in tas to come to the table together and there are all of a sudden options.

True, at the moment Tassie still has a way to go, but putting it on the backburnner and out of the limelight helps no one.

Nobody is doubting that, in time there will be a team in Tasmania, in Canberra, on the Gold Coast, etc. It just wont be in the near future, not unless someone finds a huge pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

4. Unless they have done a study who knows how many members they will get, could be 45,000 and their is no problem or it could be 15,000 and they would be in trouble.

Not a study, but The Mercury (Hobart's newspaper, widely read in the south; unknown in the north) ran a Tassie Ten Thousand push in the mid-90s and either didn't reach or only just reached 5,000 people. That was with no money required.
How many people would swap allegiances from their current AFL club to a Tasmanian one? Nobody I knew, though I was in the north and the team being proposed at the time would have played in the south (at a revamped KG5/Showgrounds site). Undoubtedly some would get membership and adopt the side as a second team, and of course kids would grow up following the Tas team - but even 15,000 seems highly unlikely.

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

Nobody is doubting that, in time there will be a team in Tasmania, in Canberra, on the Gold Coast, etc. It just wont be in the near future, not unless someone finds a huge pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.

I am. As time goes on, and Tasmania continues to grow slower than the rest of the nation the situation gets and more unlikely. Gold Coast eventually, maybe there could be three teams in Sydney in 50 years, Canberra unlikely but possible if growth considerably outpaces the rest of the nation. Tassie, impossible without a major reversal of every socio-economic trend of the last 80 years.

 

[fishmonger]

Not a study, but The Mercury (Hobart's newspaper, widely read in the south; unknown in the north) ran a Tassie Ten Thousand push in the mid-90s and either didn't reach or only just reached 5,000 people. That was with no money required.
How many people would swap allegiances from their current AFL club to a Tasmanian one? Nobody I knew, though I was in the north and the team being proposed at the time would have played in the south (at a revamped KG5/Showgrounds site). Undoubtedly some would get membership and adopt the side as a second team, and of course kids would grow up following the Tas team - but even 15,000 seems highly unlikely.

So who on the Gold Coast is going to drop their allegiances to their rugby league or AFL team in favour of your Shinboners ???

Nice try sonny jim.

I travelled over 100 kilometres to Brisbane Bears games even despite their fugly pink jumpers and ****y koalas. If you want a success story, then there is one. Carrara wasn't even in Brisbane. They could have at least called them the Queensland Bears.

 

[Eagle87]

1. They all ready sponsor AFL tasmania which is the governing body in Tasmania.
2. 3,000 members is not enough to pump 15 million into when the state has 500,000 people.
3. Tasmanian population has been growing now for a few years not by a huge amount but it's still growing and the economy has been doing well for last 5 years.
4. Unless they have done a study who knows how many members they will get, could be 45,000 and their is no problem or it could be 15,000 and they would be in trouble.
5. If Geelong and Port Adelaide can sustain a side, Tasmania could.

Has anyone on here ever heard of a business plan?

Wild, emotive statements (see point 5) are not getting anyone a team. At the last ABS census, Tassie had a population of 484,000, the ABS projections show at best a VERY modest population growth in Tassie and at worst a decline in population over the next 50 years. The best case scenarios has births and deaths cancelling each other out and net growth of around 1000 - 4000 per annum based on net migration in.

The population growth in WA & Qld (by comparison) is growing at more than the entire population of Tassie every 10 years. Perth alone (i.e. not WA) is projected (by the ABS) to grow by 700,000 by 2021.

Corporate sponsors have previously indicated a lack of interest in sponsoring an AFL side out of Tassie and there is nothing to date that indicates anything else. Relying entirely on Government support + AFL handouts seems a pretty ordinary (and risky) business strategy and that would be to jsut scrape by the $25 million that gets you a poor Melbourne club type scenario. You need $10m more than that to go with the bigger clubs.

Tassie is not a viable option. Frankly, Geelong, North and a series of other teams wouldnt be viable if they applied now for a licence but they are in already and thats the way it is. If the best business plan you have is that you can match some "bottom" ranked financial sides that alreadye exist then your struggling. In addition you wouldnt match Port anyway - thats just an unsustainable argument.

The wonderful thing about posts like this one are that regardless of logic, regardless of accuracy you get attacked as a negative nelly or a heartless corporate bastard for posting them. FWIW, the decision to include a team from Tassie would be made by negative nellys and heartless corporate bastards - so you wont get a team!

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

No, I don't think that at all. Nor did I say it.
But the GC will have 800k in 30 years (so the projected estimates say) and is expected to have a much stronger economy than Tas as well. The point is a team on the GC, while it would take time, at least has some eventual chance of success after a few decades; while one in Tasmania has none.

 

[catman2006]

Not a study, but The Mercury (Hobart's newspaper, widely read in the south; unknown in the north) ran a Tassie Ten Thousand push in the mid-90s and either didn't reach or only just reached 5,000 people. That was with no money required.
How many people would swap allegiances from their current AFL club to a Tasmanian one? Nobody I knew, though I was in the north and the team being proposed at the time would have played in the south (at a revamped KG5/Showgrounds site). Undoubtedly some would get membership and adopt the side as a second team, and of course kids would grow up following the Tas team - but even 15,000 seems highly unlikely.

There is a lot of people who follow AFL teams because there was not a tasmanian team to go for but would go for Tasmanian side.

Still some issues to resolve mainly around AFL Tasmania and the public with transparency of AFL Tasmania.

 

[Eagle87]

Nobody is doubting that, in time there will be a team in Tasmania, in Canberra, on the Gold Coast, etc. It just wont be in the near future, not unless someone finds a huge pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.

Wrong, wrong and right.

Tassie wont get a team, Canberra wont get a team (corporate support is a big issue there even for the Brumbies) and the Gold Coast will get a team.

I think many would doubt that your "nobody is doubting" statement is even remotely right.

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

There is a lot of people who follow AFL teams because there was not a tasmanian team to go for but would go for Tasmanian side.

Still some issues to resolve mainly around AFL Tasmania and the public with transparency of AFL Tasmania.

As I said, in the 26 years I lived in Tasmania I met precisely 0 of these people.
Obviously very different circles to yourself.