Time to get with the times

[Merv]

Ok, really glad i started this thread, as it has enlightened me as to how our recruiting department has run and is now run.

Although i have doubts on Dodoro, i am not in a position to say whether he is good or bad as i think Sheeds has also had a lot, probably too much, say in our recruiting.

My question was more along the lines of what were his credentials when he first took over the job?
Did he come from a background of Junior football involvement, athletics etc?

My orginal post was not really about calling for Dodoro's head or to criticise our review process or the changes that were made.

It was about us moving with the times, spending some of the money that we are so regularly prepared to brag about on the MOST important area of football.

I don't want to see Essendon catch up to the opposition, i want us to be the leaders in the most important area of football.

Identify who is the best recruiting manager in the business and make him an offer he can not refuse.

This does not mean that Dodoro has to go, even better why not they work in tandem.

As for not paying these interstate guys more than just travel money...pfffttttttt.

I'm sure these guys do it as they either love the game, Essendon etc but why not either pay them on an incentive type fee.

A reward for successful identification.

Whether people will admit it or not, if you are given a monetary incentive to do your job to the best of your ability you will give it everything you have.

If you get a salary regardless of your results, or don't get paid at all, human nature will dictate that you will not do as well as if you were given an incentive/reward for when your good work comes to fruition.


The basis of my original post remain.

It is time for the Essendon Football Club to get with the times, spend the money and return us to the power we have been in the past.

 

[ant555]

Okay, I'll keep it simple for you.

You have four red apples.

You lose two of your red apples.

You then get two green apples.

You have two new apples, but you still have four apples.

Good one smart arse . So what you are basicly saying is you know everything and no one else can know anything or know people who might have an idea of what was going on becasue they work in the same area.
Well done one of you best condesending pieces of work.
And you wonder why you get people off side.

You made out that the opening post was misguided because a review has already been put in place.

That doesn't mean the review was right, or that people should be happy with it. There is no indication that we will add further full time recruiting resources and if we don't then we are kidding ourselves which in effect makes this thread 100% spot on.

Well forgive me for not knowing eaxctly what the board plan is and for not knowing what is planed in the future.
When the club comes out and identifies that we have bee sitting on our hands and spending a quarter of what the top clubs do on recruting i thought you know they might understand the problem. When they say they are going to expand and increase spending i think well maybe we are going in the right direction. This is why i said we didnt need another review. It looked like it was all there in balck and white.
Of cousre unlike you (who seems to be privvy to all our spending and who is working for us) i dont have the boards blue print for recruting . I can only asume that when they realised we where light years behind on spending and said they would be increasing size and spending that they meant they where going to do more than just hire one extra person and pay him $100,00 or whatever the amount is. Forgive me for thinking we could have identified the problem and where profesional enough to act on it.

Unless Harvey is coach next season, which looks unlikely, Dodoro is as good as gone

Well if that is the way the board and the new coach need to go then so be it. I am all for the new coach having a recruting team / list manager that he is confortable with.

 

[Daytripper]

FWIW the poor recruiting guy is usually just a scapegoat.

What selections has Dodoro made recently that anyone is upset with ? Last season it was generally agreed that Essendon along with Geelong had done the best out of the draft. Everyone here was raving about our selections and now all of a sudden he doesn't know what he's doing.

The key issue for me is player development. That is what differentiates the good clubs from the bad clubs.

Have a look at what Collingwood have been doing with getting their players to train in altitude during the off season. The benefits to this must be enormous. And what do we do ? We send 6 or 7 guys to Japan for leadership training. Sure it might help them out persoanlly but how does it improve their footy.

I can't remember who said it before but I want to see improvement on the footy field first and foremost.

 

[Bombs Away]

Agreed. I remember reading in Tim Watson's book about Sheeds where we picked Daniel McAlister at pick no.4 when everyone was expecting him to go much much later. The recuitment manager at the time (Noel Judkins I think?) had earmarked the pick for Max Hudghton who went on to play 200+ games with the Saints. Reason was that Sheeds wanted to "coach the first Maouri footballer in the AFL," not knowing that Wayne Schwass had already played over 100 games for the Kangaroos.

Point being, you can have the greatest recruiting manager in the world, but their effectiveness in large part can be significantly restricted if the coach is given ultimate say in all drafting decisions. In my experience, you bring out the best in people when you empower them to make decisions. Therefore the coach should say, "we need a midfielder with this pick" and then give the recruiting manager (and his team) the opportunity to make the pick and live/die by their choices.

... My two cents anyway

Your two cents makes absolute sense to me and probably most other people. That is the way I thought it would have run. One thing we need is a full time list development person and propper skills coaches. I would like hird to do this next season (one of the most skillful players I have seen in my time and he could still be around the place)

 

[foj1]

Perception means a lot sometimes.
A friend of mine went for the position that Mervyn Keane got. He sat the interview and was given encouraging feedback during and immediately after the interview. Two weeks later he hadnt heard back from Essendon. He rang the club confused. Adrian Dodoro got back to him another week later.
"Yeah, weve given the job to Merv Keane. He rang Sheeds asking if there were any jobs going at the club and Sheeds said there was one in recruiting. Sorry about that pal, maybe next time bye"
Essendon has a reputation for organising jobs for the boys and this is just an example I know of. Now Merv Keane may be excellent at the job but he received the job without an interview, without doing the preparation, without analysing our list- without sharing his knowledge of promising U/16 and U/18 players with a panel. No transperency- Sheedys mate gets the job.
We are only starting to get our recruiting in order. I dont think you can use last years draft as an example of improvement because Blind Freddy could have drafted well with the picks we had. Furthermore Sheedy stated a week before the draft that Essendon were not considering Joel Selwood- strange?
Furthermore was drafting Gumbleton in front of Leuenberger an astute move?
It makes me think that at that stage Essendon saw Ryder as a ruckman. How much time has he spent rucking. At 197cm will he predominantly be a ruckman?
I suggested last year that CHB was his position similar to Michael Johnson from Freo. (I get a lot wrong) So we passed on a extremely talented ruckman because of a lack of planning and communication between the coaches and the recruiting department.

 

[Longy413]

My question was more along the lines of what were his credentials when he first took over the job?
Did he come from a background of Junior football involvement, athletics etc?

He didn't have any.

He played Under 19's at Essendon in the early 80's.
He went for the Football Manager position that eventually went to Matthew Drain at the end of 1997.

When he missed out on that, Sheedy appointed him in the vacant position in recruiting.

Good one smart arse . So what you are basicly saying is you know everything and no one else can know anything or know people who might have an idea of what was going on becasue they work in the same area.
Well done one of you best condesending pieces of work.
And you wonder why you get people off side.

It's black and white.

We didn't have any more resources on the 2006 ND than we did for the 2005.
Different people, but not more resources.

We in fact had less, given Ports current Recruiting Manager left Essendon at the start of 2005 and he was heavily involved in recruiting at Essendon. He still hasn't been replaced.

I'm not saying I know everything and that other people know nothing. You're making the assumption.

I know what I know and I know that we didn't have additional resources working on the 2006 draft.

Well forgive me for not knowing eaxctly what the board plan is and for not knowing what is planed in the future.
When the club comes out and identifies that we have bee sitting on our hands and spending a quarter of what the top clubs do on recruting i thought you know they might understand the problem. When they say they are going to expand and increase spending i think well maybe we are going in the right direction. This is why i said we didnt need another review. It looked like it was all there in balck and white.
Of cousre unlike you (who seems to be privvy to all our spending and who is working for us) i dont have the boards blue print for recruting . I can only asume that when they realised we where light years behind on spending and said they would be increasing size and spending that they meant they where going to do more than just hire one extra person and pay him $100,00 or whatever the amount is. Forgive me for thinking we could have identified the problem and where profesional enough to act on it.

If the plan is in place, we sure as hell haven't acted on it.

No point having a plan if it isn't put into place. We all know there is a plan, none of us know what that is. But were are the results?

We know that Keane has been added and we all know that is it. It's not good enough.

FWIW the poor recruiting guy is usually just a scapegoat.

For me, it isn't so much a Dodoro thing, but rather the resources that are afforded to him.

The key issue for me is player development. That is what differentiates the good clubs from the bad clubs.

I can't remember who said it before but I want to see improvement on the footy field first and foremost.

It was me and you're spot on.

We have Knights who also has the responsibility of coaching a side 2 hours away and Misiti who is part time. Then there is Berry on the scientific side of things.

Not good enough, we need to address this area dramatically.

We seem to be all huff and no puff.

 

[ant555]

It's black and white.

We didn't have any more resources on the 2006 ND than we did for the 2005.
Different people, but not more resources.

We in fact had less, given Ports current Recruiting Manager left Essendon at the start of 2005 and he was heavily involved in recruiting at Essendon. He still hasn't been replaced.

I'm not saying I know everything and that other people know nothing. You're making the assumption.

I know what I know and I know that we didn't have additional resources working on the 2006 draft.

Well given i do actually know some people who work in the area and had been with them watching under18's footy last year when it was pointed out then i guess you a pretty much calling me a liar.
Anyway i have pretty much had enough , you can have the board to yourself.

 

[marcuz]

It was me and you're spot on.

We have Knights who also has the responsibility of coaching a side 2 hours away and Misiti who is part time. Then there is Berry on the scientific side of things.

Not good enough, we need to address this area dramatically.

We seem to be all huff and no puff.

Any chance of appointing knights as a full time development coach? Any peanut can coach bendigo. I would have thought having your development coach spend all his time at the club with no distractions would be a no brainer.

 

[stander]

Well given i do actually know some people who work in the area and had been with them watching under18's footy last year when it was pointed out then i guess you a pretty much calling me a liar.
Anyway i have pretty much had enough , you can have the board to yourself.

I hope you mean " have the thread to yourself " Oracle.

Thats just the terse and surly and impertinent way he communicates- which I have, on many occasions, reprimanded him, but to not much avail.

At least you don't have to stand with him at the footy or training.

 

[Longy413]

Well given i do actually know some people who work in the area and had been with them watching under18's footy last year when it was pointed out then i guess you a pretty much calling me a liar.
Anyway i have pretty much had enough , you can have the board to yourself.

Again with the assumptions.

I'm not calling you a liar at all, just suggesting you have been given misinformation.

We didn't have a greater number of resources at the last draft, we simply did not.

Re-shuffling occured, people were appointed to replace those that left, but we didn't have a greater number of resources. And from a back office analystic perspective we had less.

Sook all you like, but you're wrong.

 

[ant555]

Again with the assumptions.

I'm not calling you a liar at all, just suggesting you have been given misinformation.

We didn't have a greater number of resources at the last draft, we simply did not.

Re-shuffling occured, people were appointed to replace those that left, but we didn't have a greater number of resources. And from a back office analystic perspective we had less.

Sook all you like, but you're wrong.

OK so i have to belive you . Can i ask why i have to belive someone who simply says i know what i know ?
Lets just say im happy with what i know. You can call it misinformation or whatever you want. You obviously have inside running on everything that happens at the footy club so good for you.Must be good to have the insdie running of every department in th EFC and know absolutly everything that goes on throughout the club.
All i can say is i know dossier's where done for the club on TAC Cup players and Victorian high school kids . They where done by people who where outside our club and not tied strictly to another AFL club.I know they contained players for last years draft and a report on the 16 year old kids eligable for this years draft. I dont know how much was paid for them or if Dodoro read them once and chucked them in the bin. I would presume it would have been to get a comparsion of with the info they where already going on.

Anway i am going to sook now and i couldnt really give a toss anymore . As i am the king of misinformation and asumptions i will bid your all a good bye.This is my last word on this or any topic.
Please feel free to refer any questions related to the EFC to our resdient expert in absolutly everything.Im sure he will be able to give you all the answers you are looking for because he knows what he knows!

 

[Tambu]

Won't somebody please think of the children!?!?

 

[kelvin_sheedy]

Easy boys...

Not easy to clearly articulate your thoughts in a forum without rubbing someone up the wrong way.

 

[Boris_Bewick]

Easy boys...

Not easy to clearly articulate your thoughts in a forum without rubbing someone up the wrong way.

I think it's very easy. You can easily disagree someone without belittling them. It's whether you want to or not.