Time to make a call on Johnson I think

[amer]

His wayward bowling against England was a huge factor in losing the ashes and with his performances so far in this ODI series against India, we're carrying him (and not very well). The signs were there immediately when he arrived in England and got smashed in that world T20 tournament. Don't get me wrong, I didn't think anything of that at the time either, but in hindsight it looks to be a fair sign that something was up even then.

Not at all saying that it's seeya later long term but for the first time since the beginning of his form slump, I am thinking an omission might be on the cards.

 

[fraser25]

Equal leading wicket taker in the series 6 @ 36

Siddle has two wickets @ 83

But at least he's accurate says Kasper

 

[amer]

What about series economy rates?

 

[fraser25]

What about series economy rates?

Economy rates win matches do they?

 

[amer]

Economy rates win matches do they?

In ODIs quite clearly yes! And in literal terms test matches too - dry the runs up, pressure builds, batsmen feel compelled to play at shots they wouldn't normally and wickets fall.

I don't even dislike the bloke, I just don't know if we can continue with him getting smacked around for runs like this and totally snuffing out any pressure we're building at the other end. His job is to make important strikes and he's not even doing that.

 

[fraser25]

In ODIs quite clearly yes!

Is that why Brett Lee has been our best bowler in Odi's for the last decade?

Wickets choke run-rates. Johnson has a good career eco-rate because he's a wicket taker.

Choking run rates alone does nothing and we're seeing that with Siddle's bowling in this series.

 

[whats_at_stake]

I think people miss the point with Johnson. He can bowl crap but has the knack for picking up wickets. It is what makes the decision really hard. I think he and Sharma are incredibly similar. Both immensly talented, both pick up wickets but both also are erratic and have a tendency to go for runs.

Personally I would drop Sharma and tell him to work on consistency. Likewise Johnson as well. He may not neccessarily deserve it but it will be good for him in the long run. Sure they could still play now and still probably be amongst the best in the series...but I think both can become the best the world and they need a clear message sent that even though you may be taking wickets, even though you have tonnes of talent, you need consistency in order to become the best.

 

[mattymac]

AB wanted to drop him after the second test iirc, before they pulled the watson shuffle to save him and burn hughes. to be fair he came good in the fourth i think (then lost it again). he's always been erratic though and always will be. he's got an element of the shaun tait about him. very little natural control in his action. he's a confidence bowler. when he's on it he's lethal but when pressure builds and he doubts himself he sprays it wildly which is why he needs to be cushioned with more experienced bowlers aka clark/lee, not surrounded by younger even less experienced kids aka siddle/hilf. i'd still have him over siddle cos he's a wicket taker.

 

[crowsarethebest]

I think people miss the point with Johnson. He can bowl crap but has the knack for picking up wickets. It is what makes the decision really hard. I think he and Sharma are incredibly similar. Both immensly talented, both pick up wickets but both also are erratic and have a tendency to go for runs.

Personally I would drop Sharma and tell him to work on consistency. Likewise Johnson as well. He may not neccessarily deserve it but it will be good for him in the long run. Sure they could still play now and still probably be amongst the best in the series...but I think both can become the best the world and they need a clear message sent that even though you may be taking wickets, even though you have tonnes of talent, you need consistency in order to become the best.

Agree that he is too eratic at the moment but you can't drop Johnson at this stage. He's got the runs on the board and deserves a few more chances.

 

[whats_at_stake]

Agree that he is too eratic at the moment but you can't drop Johnson at this stage. He's got the runs on the board and deserves a few more chances.

I also agree he does not deserve to be dropped but still think he should be to benefit him in the longer term.

I remember reading about Irfan Pathan saying that even when he took that hattrick against Pakistan he knew his bowling had issues but since he kept on taking wickets he kept on playing and did not have time to work on his bowling action. Unfortunately eventually he lost it. I still hope he makes it back. Was an amazing bowler when he started (with late swing) and a good bat.

This is what I do not want to happen to Johnson or Sharma.

 

[Russian]

It is time to make a call - the one to never give him the new ball again. They keep working that out then something happens and they go back to him because he's 'the leader'. It's not like we ever play with less than 3 quicks, he doesn't have to be in the first two used.

 

[Bradesmaen]

He keeps taking wickets and that keeps you in the team. Mind you the majority of those wickets are from short and wide balls that deserve to go for 6.

 

[Subaru Impreza]

mj is a poor player and poor man. he was blaming his mother for all his problems - which i found quite low tbh.

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

Agree that he is too eratic at the moment but you can't drop Johnson at this stage. He's got the runs on the board and deserves a few more chances.

Having runs on the board is not necessarily a good thing for a bowler. (Does that get me the prize for worst comment ever?)


I would be dropping him for the first Test, and if he start getting a bit more consistency - at Sheffield Shied level, limited overs stuff means virtually nothing for Test cricket - bring him back. Its not just about his wickets, having loose bowling at one end makes it tougher for the guy at the other end as well.
The problem is, he is one of about one genuine wicket takers Australia has; but he was just too erratic in England.

 

[Cousin Jed]

It is time to make a call - the one to never give him the new ball again. They keep working that out then something happens and they go back to him because he's 'the leader'. It's not like we ever play with less than 3 quicks, he doesn't have to be in the first two used.

Bingo.

mj is a poor player and poor man. he was blaming his mother for all his problems - which i found quite low tbh.

Nonsense. Never said that at any stage

Some of you may want to look at his series by series stats. God forbid an Australian player has a couple of really poor games after bowling 1000 overs for Australia in the last 12 months

http://www.howstat.com/cricket/Statistics/Players/PlayerSeries_ODI.asp?PlayerID=3334

 

[aussie1st]

We should give him a break and let him work on his action. No one is going to remember this ODI series in a few years and we may as well see if McKay/Holland have what it takes.

 

[King Elvis]

AB wanted to drop him after the second test iirc, before they pulled the watson shuffle to save him and burn hughes. to be fair he came good in the fourth i think (then lost it again). he's always been erratic though and always will be. he's got an element of the shaun tait about him. very little natural control in his action. he's a confidence bowler. when he's on it he's lethal but when pressure builds and he doubts himself he sprays it wildly which is why he needs to be cushioned with more experienced bowlers aka clark/lee, not surrounded by younger even less experienced kids aka siddle/hilf. i'd still have him over siddle cos he's a wicket taker.

His bowling against the South Africans included a couple of spells that were amongst the best I've ever seen. That one in SAth where he knocked 3 or 4 of them over and hospitalised Smith and Kallis was incredible, absolutely brutal and basically unplayable, and he bowled a similar spell here in Perth I think?

It's amazing that he can perform so incredibly well, and then just lose his mojo completely.

He shouldn't be a new ball bowler though; I don't think he's ever actually done it well - and when he starts poorly it destroys his confidence and then he's shot for the rest of the day.

 

[legend166]

He's pretty much been rubbish since the matches against South Africa, where he actually finally came good and lived up to the hype.

If he struggles against the Windies he could be out of by the time we get into the Pakistanis.

 

[courtjester]

He's pretty much been rubbish since the matches against South Africa, where he actually finally came good and lived up to the hype.

If he struggles against the Windies he could be out of by the time we get into the Pakistanis.

He'll probably do well against the WIs in Australian conditions. He needs to be quick and intimidate early, otherwise he's very hittable, and when that happens he makes it hard for the other bowlers to build pressure.

His job in the team is to strike, intimidate and and get the batsman hopping around. That's why it's vital Siddle in particular holds his line and length from the other end.

 

[fraser25]

That's why it's vital Siddle in particular holds his line and length from the other end.

No Bollinger can do that job, AND take wickets.

Basically a ready made replacement opening bowler for Bracken.

Siddle is a bit redundant in ODI's I'm afraid.

 

[King Elvis]

No Bollinger can do that job, AND take wickets.

Basically a ready made replacement opening bowler for Bracken.

Siddle is a bit redundant in ODI's I'm afraid.

I think he was talking about the upcoming WI Tests..

 

[Cleavy]

if it was 4-0 or 3-1, I'd think they would consider resting him. No chance of that since it's 2 all.

 

[aussie1st]

Siddle bowls with good pace in ODIs, he just needs a reverse swinging yorker and he'll be in the team for a long time.

 

[King Elvis]

Siddle bowls with good pace in ODIs, he just needs a reverse swinging yorker and he'll be in the team for a long time.

He just needs a reverse swinging yorker?

 

[amer]

His bowling against the South Africans included a couple of spells that were amongst the best I've ever seen. That one in SAth where he knocked 3 or 4 of them over and hospitalised Smith and Kallis was incredible, absolutely brutal and basically unplayable, and he bowled a similar spell here in Perth I think?

It's amazing that he can perform so incredibly well, and then just lose his mojo completely.

He shouldn't be a new ball bowler though; I don't think he's ever actually done it well - and when he starts poorly it destroys his confidence and then he's shot for the rest of the day.

South African cricketers have a history of struggling against left armers, or so they say. There is a belief amongst the South African people that Johnson's "great" bowling performances against them were more a result of that than significant improvement from Johnson.

In my view though his current bowling is career worst. Real worry.