Today I learned about capitalism

[Bunk Moreland]

I actually think everyone's share of the pie is increasing in value, just those that have more of the pie to begin with are ending up with more pie.

The quality and standard of living has improved in just my lifetime. To the point where it's all taken for granted now.

That depends when you were born. It’s not so rosy an outlook for the young, most of whom have next to no hope of buying a home - which was once taken for granted.

 

[kranky al]

I actually think everyone's share of the pie is increasing in value, just those that have more of the pie to begin with are ending up with more pie.

The quality and standard of living has improved in just my lifetime. To the point where it's all taken for granted now.

Yeah its just fuc}%# super now.

Theres a large percentage of the population will never be able to afford a house.

thats actually the lower and lower middle class’ way of saving for retirement. they buy a family home, pay it off, it appreciates, they sell it and downsize and use the money for retirement.

except they cant anymore. So the taxpayers going to have to pick up more of the bill.

but yeah as long as a few people can negativelygear ten properties everything is ok

 

[Taylor]

That depends when you were born. It’s not so rosy an outlook for the young, most of whom have next to no hope of buying a home - which was once taken for granted.

I'd consider myself young.

Just off the top of my head, looking around this room I see a TV that cost $4000 at the time that now costs $750 to replace with something far better, an air conditioner that is refrigeration reverse cycle that cost $1000 that was an evaporative machine in the past, a personal computer that makes phone calls and accesses the wealth of information on the internet that costs less than a personal computer did way back when. I say way back, it was this millennium and my brother wanted to play flight simulator.

24 hour convenience is something that reasonably common, especially if you don't care what you're eating.

What percentage of young people have traveled compared to the previous generation at the same age?

I think life is really, really good at the moment and that people are choosing to enjoy that over climbing the larger hurdle of getting into property with restrictive saving or sacrifice. Some still will, some will try really hard and not be able to but most will live at home longer, study longer, work a job that pays for their weekends out, their phone and puts fuel in their car.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

I'd consider myself young.

Just off the top of my head, looking around this room I see a TV that cost $4000 at the time that now costs $750 to replace with something far better, an air conditioner that is refrigeration reverse cycle that cost $1000 that was an evaporative machine in the past, a personal computer that makes phone calls and accesses the wealth of information on the internet that costs less than a personal computer did way back when. I say way back, it was this millennium and my brother wanted to play flight simulator.

24 hour convenience is something that reasonably common, especially if you don't care what you're eating.

What percentage of young people have traveled compared to the previous generation at the same age?

I think life is really, really good at the moment and that people are choosing to enjoy that over climbing the larger hurdle of getting into property with restrictive saving or sacrifice. Some still will, some will try really hard and not be able to but most will live at home longer, study longer, work a job that pays for their weekends out, their phone and puts fuel in their car.

Some things have definitely gotten cheaper, but the extreme concentration of wealth - and thus power - has consequences on the security of everybody’s livelihoods.

They’ll come for the min wage soon. They already have in many ways.

It’s also skewed in Australia as we’ve ridden a resources boom where most people’s major output - labour - was in high demand.

 

[kranky al]

Today i learned about capitalism that despite the events of the last few months with somewhere around a billion animals incinerated - thats just not enough.

 

[kranky al]

I'd consider myself young.

Just off the top of my head, looking around this room I see a TV that cost $4000 at the time that now costs $750 to replace with something far better, an air conditioner that is refrigeration reverse cycle that cost $1000 that was an evaporative machine in the past, a personal computer that makes phone calls and accesses the wealth of information on the internet that costs less than a personal computer did way back when. I say way back, it was this millennium and my brother wanted to play flight simulator.

24 hour convenience is something that reasonably common, especially if you don't care what you're eating.

What percentage of young people have traveled compared to the previous generation at the same age?

I think life is really, really good at the moment and that people are choosing to enjoy that over climbing the larger hurdle of getting into property with restrictive saving or sacrifice. Some still will, some will try really hard and not be able to but most will live at home longer, study longer, work a job that pays for their weekends out, their phone and puts fuel in their car.

You see consumer goods that last a fraction of the time of old consumer goods

i mean i get that.

ive got a 4k tv and atmos surround sound system that is absolutely amazing.

but i also own a house on a large block and have disposable income to buy that s**t cheaper and cheaper it seems every year.

but it lasts less and less - even the good brands - bought a bosche dishwasher that lasted 3 years and was a pos. Bought a f and p french door water dispensing icemaking all singing and dancing fridge

its four years old and breaking down.

weve figured out a long time ago to sell this stuff at avout 2-3 years as thats when you still get some ok coin - and who knows how much longer its got - most stuff lasts 4-7 years - cheap stuff four and the better stuff about 7.

now all this stuff - is just stuff. its not security. Its not the enforced savings program that a house is.

its not an appreciating asset - that as i mentioned earlier and you studiously ignored, is the best pension plan for low middle class and lower class folk

You would replace that - with tvs - that they buy second hand and last for a year or two.

then they need to buy another.

They rent all their lives. Have no job security.

Yeah they are doing great

 

[Taylor]

You see consumer goods that last a fraction of the time of old consumer goods

i mean i get that.

ive got a 4k tv and atmos surround sound system that is absolutely amazing.

but i also own a house on a large block and have disposable income to buy that s**t cheaper and cheaper it seems every year.

but it lasts less and less - even the good brands - bought a bosche dishwasher that lasted 3 years and was a pos. Bought a f and p french door water dispensing icemaking all singing and dancing fridge

its four years old and breaking down.

weve figured out a long time ago to sell this stuff at avout 2-3 years as thats when you still get some ok coin - and who knows how much longer its got - most stuff lasts 4-7 years - cheap stuff four and the better stuff about 7.

now all this stuff - is just stuff. its not security. Its not the enforced savings program that a house is.

its not an appreciating asset - that as i mentioned earlier and you studiously ignored, is the best pension plan for low middle class and lower class folk

You would replace that - with tvs - that they buy second hand and last for a year or two.

then they need to buy another.

They rent all their lives. Have no job security.

Yeah they are doing great

I was thinking more that people would buy houses with three other friends and live an amazing lifestyle in that home.

 

[Kram]

You see consumer goods that last a fraction of the time of old consumer goods

i mean i get that.

ive got a 4k tv and atmos surround sound system that is absolutely amazing.

but i also own a house on a large block and have disposable income to buy that s**t cheaper and cheaper it seems every year.

but it lasts less and less - even the good brands - bought a bosche dishwasher that lasted 3 years and was a pos. Bought a f and p french door water dispensing icemaking all singing and dancing fridge

its four years old and breaking down.

weve figured out a long time ago to sell this stuff at avout 2-3 years as thats when you still get some ok coin - and who knows how much longer its got - most stuff lasts 4-7 years - cheap stuff four and the better stuff about 7.

now all this stuff - is just stuff. its not security. Its not the enforced savings program that a house is.

its not an appreciating asset - that as i mentioned earlier and you studiously ignored, is the best pension plan for low middle class and lower class folk

You would replace that - with tvs - that they buy second hand and last for a year or two.

then they need to buy another.

They rent all their lives. Have no job security.

Yeah they are doing great

Maybe people should consider the 'unthinkable' and not live in the city if they want to be a home owner, how much is reasonable house in say Gero?

 

[Doss]

Maybe people should consider the 'unthinkable' and not live in the city if they want to be a home owner, how much is reasonable house in say Gero?

Are people going to move without the confidence the jobs will be there to go for?

It can be a bit of a chicken and egg thing of course, but the reality is that there will be a sub-sect who will never consider a tree change even if the employment opportunities were demonstrably there, and there will be a further sub-sect who would only consider such a move if they had confidence in the career side of things. And really, you can't begrudge that second group.

 

[kranky al]

Maybe people should consider the 'unthinkable' and not live in the city if they want to be a home owner, how much is reasonable house in say Gero?

About $300000

in a town that nearly 10000 have left in the last 4 years - unemployment is high and jobs are scarce.

 

[kranky al]

I was thinking more that people would buy houses with three other friends and live an amazing lifestyle in that home.

Can you think of 3 friends you could live with.

I see 3 ex friends.

 

[ferball]

I think so. The idea of justice is very different in Australia than it is in Indonesia where you can pay money and avoid justice.

You can't buy off police here as if it were cultural. That matters.

I think what you mean is you (first person singular) can't buy off the police as if it were cultural.

 

[Taylor]

Can you think of 3 friends you could live with.

I see 3 ex friends.

Plenty. I'm very accommodating

 

[DAlembert]

Today i learned about capitalism that despite the events of the last few months with somewhere around a billion animals incinerated - thats just not enough.

That has nothing to do with capitalism but an organisation of campaigners who did the wrong thing.

 

[DAlembert]

Oh I’m sorry, do international corporations have different rules in third world countries

Watch a few shows on Colombia and the culture there. Would be a lot more to the story than a London Economics School aka Fabian society journo could delve into. Sort of kills your argument about capitalism. Colombia has improved over the last decade but we all know what went on for 50 years before that.
Pure capitalism has not existed for a long time.

 

[kranky al]

Watch a few shows on Colombia and the culture there. Would be a lot more to the story than a London Economics School aka Fabian society journo could delve into. Sort of kills your argument about capitalism. Colombia has improved over the last decade but we all know what went on for 50 years before that.
Pure capitalism has not existed for a long time.

And communism never got a chance either - it was corrupted etc etc

bring it closer to home.

James Hardie - knew it was selling a product that killed. Continued mining it and selling it.

delayed trials so many of the afflicted died then moved countries to evade their liability.

Now if i made the rules - the people who made those decisions would be charged with murder. Anyone who knew what was going on would be charged as an accessory to murder.

Can you explain why this is a bad thing.

 

[DAlembert]

And communism never got a chance either - it was corrupted etc etc

bring it closer to home.

James Hardie - knew it was selling a product that killed. Continued mining it and selling it.

delayed trials so many of the afflicted died then moved countries to evade their liability.

Now if i made the rules - the people who made those decisions would be charged with murder. Anyone who knew what was going on would be charged as an accessory to murder.

Can you explain why this is a bad thing.

Your first assertion is false it admitted later that it's product may be dangerous. They developed a fibre free product that superseded fibro cement as a building product.
They changed the structure of their companies to set aside funds for the compensation claims they knew were coming.
Thank goodness you do not make the rules. They murdered know one. They produced a product that was later found to be dangerous to the health of persons that come into contact with it under certain circumstances. We have all had exposure to asbestos.
They have survived as an entity. They have provided compensation to victims since the 1980's
Once again capitalism is not to blame for a product that was later found to be potentially lethal.
I would wager that a lot of products invented/manufactured would have a similar profile.

 

[kranky al]

Your first assertion is false it admitted later that it's product may be dangerous. They developed a fibre free product that superseded fibro cement as a building product.
They changed the structure of their companies to set aside funds for the compensation claims they knew were coming.
Thank goodness you do not make the rules. They murdered know one. They produced a product that was later found to be dangerous to the health of persons that come into contact with it under certain circumstances. We have all had exposure to asbestos.
They have survived as an entity. They have provided compensation to victims since the 1980's
Once again capitalism is not to blame for a product that was later found to be potentially lethal.
I would wager that a lot of products invented/manufactured would have a similar profile.

James hardie continued to mine and sell their product despite knowing it was causing deaths.

not quite what you posted is it? The way you worded it was as if the very second they discovered the danger they stopped.

source: https://www.ohsrep.org.au/_killer_company_-_james_hardie_exposed

<<<<James Hardie pursued policies very similar to the tobacco companies when they realised that smoking had serious health problems. JH managers tried to cover-up the dangers of asbestos, failed to warn employees and the public of the dangers, concealed the health problems being suffered by their employees and the users of their products, dumped wastes in a very negligent and dangerous way, pressured governments and health authorities not to act, behaved extremely harshly towards its victims when they sought compensation and when the number of claims substantially increased, it sneakily transferred its parent company overseas to Holland and left a foundation behind to provide compensation for victims that was underfunded.>>>>


Afaic if you know your product is killing people - and you do all of the above to try to make a little bit more money - you are a murderer.

if lots of people die as a result of your greed you are a mass murderer and should die in jail.

 

[Doss]

Blue asbestos only 'potentially' lethal. I think I've read it all.

 

[Kram]

Blue asbestos only 'potentially' lethal. I think I've read it all.

I think we have found Julie Bishop's BF account.

 

[ferball]

I thought the Romans knew about asbestos. Why didn't James Hardie?

 

[kranky al]

I thought the Romans knew about asbestos. Why didn't James Hardie?

Be fair

they did asbestos they could.....

 

[Doss]

Be fair

they did asbestos they could.....

Mate.

 

[DAlembert]

James hardie continued to mine and sell their product despite knowing it was causing deaths.

not quite what you posted is it? The way you worded it was as if the very second they discovered the danger they stopped.

source: https://www.ohsrep.org.au/_killer_company_-_james_hardie_exposed

<<<<James Hardie pursued policies very similar to the tobacco companies when they realised that smoking had serious health problems. JH managers tried to cover-up the dangers of asbestos, failed to warn employees and the public of the dangers, concealed the health problems being suffered by their employees and the users of their products, dumped wastes in a very negligent and dangerous way, pressured governments and health authorities not to act, behaved extremely harshly towards its victims when they sought compensation and when the number of claims substantially increased, it sneakily transferred its parent company overseas to Holland and left a foundation behind to provide compensation for victims that was underfunded.>>>>


Afaic if you know your product is killing people - and you do all of the above to try to make a little bit more money - you are a murderer.

if lots of people die as a result of your greed you are a mass murderer and should die in jail.

Nice emotional outburst...

James hardie continued to mine and sell their product despite knowing it was causing deaths.

not quite what you posted is it? The way you worded it was as if the very second they discovered the danger they stopped.

source: https://www.ohsrep.org.au/_killer_company_-_james_hardie_exposed

<<<<James Hardie pursued policies very similar to the tobacco companies when they realised that smoking had serious health problems. JH managers tried to cover-up the dangers of asbestos, failed to warn employees and the public of the dangers, concealed the health problems being suffered by their employees and the users of their products, dumped wastes in a very negligent and dangerous way, pressured governments and health authorities not to act, behaved extremely harshly towards its victims when they sought compensation and when the number of claims substantially increased, it sneakily transferred its parent company overseas to Holland and left a foundation behind to provide compensation for victims that was underfunded.>>>>


Afaic if you know your product is killing people - and you do all of the above to try to make a little bit more money - you are a murderer.

if lots of people die as a result of your greed you are a mass murderer and should die in jail.

Today what I learned about Capitalism was your heading. If you want to argue about James Hardie the compensation the products the court cases open up a new thread. No one me included will try and justify the product or the outcomes. But your language and arguments do not reflect reality...just your anger at the whole situation. It's understandable but....

 

[kranky al]

Nice emotional outburst...

Today what I learned about Capitalism was your heading. If you want to argue about James Hardie the compensation the products the court cases open up a new thread. No one me included will try and justify the product or the outcomes. But your language and arguments do not reflect reality...just your anger at the whole situation. It's understandable but....

What i learn about capitalism from this - is that these greedy sons of bitches value the dollar more than human life and the horrendous suffering a victim of asbestos dies with.

they use their wealth as a shield from the consequences of their actions and indeed resist stopping their behaviour as it has no consequences aside from monetary.

I would submit that if the leadership of james hardie at the time knew they could face criminal proceedings and go to jail for knowingly mining and supplying a lethal product - they are a lot more likely to pull the pin.

Asbestos Related Disease facts and figures Australia 2018 | GARDS

Dr Tim Driscoll – University of Sydney – School of Public Health spoke at the Asbestos Safety and Eradication Agency Summit in Nov 2017. It was enlightening to hear Tim give the statistics on asbestos related disease. The shocking truth of how many good Australians are dying of a preventable...

gards.org

Dr Tim Driscoll – University of Sydney – School of Public Health spoke at the Asbestos Safety and Eradication Agency Summit in Nov 2017. It was enlightening to hear Tim give the statistics on asbestos related disease. The shocking truth of how many good Australians are dying of a preventable disease.

Mesothelioma accounts for over 700 deaths per year in Australia – The true burden of asbestos related disease is over 4,000 Australian lives every year.

Australian Asbestos Related deaths per year –

766 Mesothelioma’s

3,017 Asbestos Related Lung Cancer

140 Asbestos Related Ovarian Cancers

48 Laryngeal Cancers

77 Asbestosis>>>


thousands of people continue to die as a result of this product.

there was a point where they knew it was a killer - and continued to mine it.

i dont know how much of a moral vacuum one has to be to defend this.

lets find out.