Today I learned about capitalism

[Power Raid]

The inequality crisis is far bigger than we had feared

Inequality robs the poorest people of the support they need to improve their lives, and means that their voices go unheard.

www.oxfam.org.au

From Oxfam

In Australia the richest 1% (250,000 people) have more than double the wealth of 50% of our population (12.5 million people) and own nearly USD $1.6 trillion. That’s 22.2% of all of Australia’s wealth.

The wealthiest 1 per cent of people in the world have more than double the wealth of 6.9 billion people. This is not fair or sustainable. The vast gap between the few rich and many poor in the world can’t be resolved without deliberate policies aimed at tackling inequality, and too few governments are committed to implementing these – ours included.

Why is inequality a problem?
With extreme wealth comes the power to influence the rules.
That means that we end up with government policies that favour the super-rich, regardless of what would work best for the rest of us. These policies increase poverty and create economic instability (as we saw with the recent financial crisis).
So extreme inequality isn’t just unfair — it’s downright dangerous. In developed and developing countries alike, the lowest tax rates, the best health and education and the opportunity to influence are being given to the rich and their children.
The impact of extreme inequality is most keenly felt in developing countries where missing out means remaining trapped in the cycle of extreme poverty. It’s estimated that tax dodging by multinational companies costs the world’s poorest countries at least USD $100 billion every year.

yep

I'm personally in favour of a wealth tax as it not only collects taxes of the wealthiest, it negates the ability to avoid taxes so easily worked around such as revenue, expenditure and death taxes. By that I mean, we will not only collect wealth taxes but also increase revenue and expenditure taxes.

but it doesn't change the fact, life has never been so good for so many. we are definitely heading in the right direction.

One threat though, as highlighted in Oxfam's example is the centralisation of power. If social welfare needs to iprove, perhaps we need stronger states rather than an all powerful canberra? This is one area we are definitely heading in the wrong direction. Just last week Morrison proposed the ability to deploy the military without the safeguards of the states. Add to that AI surveillance, internet censorship and controls............worse our own ignorant citizens demanded this lunacy from Morrison.

 

[Power Raid]

Social Justice Warriors are too busy creep stalking instagram models, waging internet wars to defend the rights of gender fluid worm folk/pixiekin, and trying to get australia day changed to May 8 to worry about the tired and starving.

I fully expect kranky al next thread to be a rant about world peace.

everyone knows world peace is a threat to the economy, investment in technology and industry. This must be stopped.

 

[Power Raid]

Yeah nah i understand that apple et al sweatshops with zero workers rights have brought some money to places that didnt have any. At of course huge expense to the environment

and at the same time bought their cost of production down to a fraction of what it was.

But you also asserted that things were better in australia when we all know that manufacturing has disappeared - and our kids who dont have top end uni degrees face a life of poor gig economy jobs and never owning a house.

the family house is the cornerstone of having a decent retirement for low income earners - its a forced savings plan that tips a lot of money into their retirement when they downsize - it also makes their retirement more comfortable and affordable if not renting.

we are (as everything these days) killcking a can down the road for someone else to pay the bill)

you must be young?

 

[Scotland]

If anyone wants to learn about capitalism, Google AOC.

 

[Kram]

"Relative poverty"

I'm not against raising the dole at all but fmd, even on the current pittance how hard is it to put aside enough for a loaf of bread and some peanut butter.

 

[ferball]

I'm not against raising the dole at all but fmd, even on the current pittance how hard is it to put aside enough for a loaf of bread and some peanut butter.

A pack of rollies costs the best part of $100 bucks.

For s**t tobacco too most of the time.

You can bang on about the evils of smoking all you like but it's a neurotransmitter delivery system that helps people forget how s**t things are temporarily.

That's why do people it.

If you have kids and are on welfare (proper welfare, I'm sure we all get some family tax benefit if we're parents. You got to earn heaps to lose it all.) I imagine you need something like that regularly.

I don't understand how people can live on the dole. It's like $500 bucks a fortnight or something isn't it?

 

[Power Raid]

A pack of rollies costs the best part of $100 bucks.

For s**t tobacco too most of the time.

You can bang on about the evils of smoking all you like but it's a neurotransmitter delivery system that helps people forget how s**t things are temporarily.

That's why do people it.

If you have kids and are on welfare (proper welfare, I'm sure we all get some family tax benefit if we're parents. You got to earn heaps to lose it all.) I imagine you need something like that regularly.

I don't understand how people can live on the dole. It's like $500 bucks a fortnight or something isn't it?

Increase the dole for those that participate in society. Be that doing charity work, volunteering at the council or training courses.

Also reward people if they get a job.

 

[DAlembert]

yep

I'm personally in favour of a wealth tax as it not only collects taxes of the wealthiest, it negates the ability to avoid taxes so easily worked around such as revenue, expenditure and death taxes. By that I mean, we will not only collect wealth taxes but also increase revenue and expenditure taxes.

but it doesn't change the fact, life has never been so good for so many. we are definitely heading in the right direction.

One threat though, as highlighted in Oxfam's example is the centralisation of power. If social welfare needs to iprove, perhaps we need stronger states rather than an all powerful canberra? This is one area we are definitely heading in the wrong direction. Just last week Morrison proposed the ability to deploy the military without the safeguards of the states. Add to that AI surveillance, internet censorship and controls............worse our own ignorant citizens demanded this lunacy from Morrison.

People earning over $200000 already pay 80% of the income tax. Over $105,000 pay 52% of income tax collected. Wealth taxes are not going to change anything nor are death taxes..the amounts collected simply are not large enough to make a difference anywhere.
Life is good because we have social and financial mobility. The chances of becoming middle class if you are poor are good in this country. Studies show it can be achieved in 10 years. It is true some wealthy people influence Governments of all persuasions to create wealth but this is not as big a problem as suggested. Eg. I own a pub..I put pressure/influence on a local / state pollie and obtain a licence to have 30 pokie machines. My pub becomes successful I get rich and in the meantime employ 30 people in my pub to run the business...waiters,chefs.admin,bar tenders and security. All relatively low paying jobs but employment never the less. This happens. We spend already 160 Billion dollars on Welfare or distribution from rich to poor. We do not need stronger states we need one central Government and Councils. States should be abolished . No less than Bob Hawke and Paul Keating advocated this.
A true free market system no longer exists and Governments interfere in all segments of life. Some people seem to advocate that the Government of all persuasions should look after us from cradle to grave. This is complete nonsense. Even at the bottom end of the wealth scale...the poor you might call them they all have Big Tv's ...what might have been called luxuries 50 years ago. Inequality is a western world problem but you will not alleviate poverty by taxing the middle class and wealthy...they all pay there share. As I have stated before Capitalism is not the problem.

 

[DAlembert]

It's not uncommon for kids where I live get send to school without having had breakfast or given lunch, but that's most likely because the parents have spent their welfare money on booze/drugs/cigarettes.

At a school my wife worked..the school provided the Breakfast and Lunch. The parents were off their faces on meth and did no parenting at all. Some of these kids will prosper by sheer will...many are the next generation of crooks/criminals prison junkies. Pretty sad.

 

[DAlembert]

No doubt there are scores who should be prosecuted going back a decade, but the likelihood is there will be no action

Its a quirk that you can break into a house and steal $100 and get jailed for a few years but if you are a financial planner and steal $100,000 you will probably have no prosecution, or a suspended sentence

What a croc of. Young offenders are given many chances before they face a jail sentence. No adult offender who stole $100 has ever been given a jail sentence that is of course unless he used a knife or gun and threatened to kill the victim unless they handed over the cash and of course that is what many of these cowards get up to.
A financial planner who used forged documents to steal almost $5 million from his clients to fund his own salary, pay credit cards and for gambling has been sentenced to 10 years in prison. Yep they get jail.

 

[Power Raid]

People earning over $200000 already pay 80% of the income tax. Over $105,000 pay 52% of income tax collected. Wealth taxes are not going to change anything nor are death taxes..the amounts collected simply are not large enough to make a difference anywhere.
Life is good because we have social and financial mobility. The chances of becoming middle class if you are poor are good in this country. Studies show it can be achieved in 10 years. It is true some wealthy people influence Governments of all persuasions to create wealth but this is not as big a problem as suggested. Eg. I own a pub..I put pressure/influence on a local / state pollie and obtain a licence to have 30 pokie machines. My pub becomes successful I get rich and in the meantime employ 30 people in my pub to run the business...waiters,chefs.admin,bar tenders and security. All relatively low paying jobs but employment never the less. This happens. We spend already 160 Billion dollars on Welfare or distribution from rich to poor. We do not need stronger states we need one central Government and Councils. States should be abolished . No less than Bob Hawke and Paul Keating advocated this.
A true free market system no longer exists and Governments interfere in all segments of life. Some people seem to advocate that the Government of all persuasions should look after us from cradle to grave. This is complete nonsense. Even at the bottom end of the wealth scale...the poor you might call them they all have Big Tv's ...what might have been called luxuries 50 years ago. Inequality is a western world problem but you will not alleviate poverty by taxing the middle class and wealthy...they all pay there share. As I have stated before Capitalism is not the problem.

Our tax system is broken relying too much on wealth creation taxes.......the exact thing we should be encouraging for the reasons you outlined in your post. In time income tax will decrease as we have seen over the last 40 years

We should scrap payroll taxes for the reason you highlight, the benefits of employment.

We have a GST and this will no doubt increase.

Wealth taxes will come, the debate will be in what form and how much. 0.5% over $10m is no big issue.



I also understand your feelings as I would have sympathy for peasants gambling, tattooing, smoking and swilling piss their life away. It must be soul destroying watching them fk up their lives, their families and ruin their kids chances in life.

 

[DAlembert]

Our tax system is broken relying too much on wealth creation taxes.......the exact thing we should be encouraging for the reasons you outlined in your post. In time income tax will decrease as we have seen over the last 40 years

We should scrap payroll taxes for the reason you highlight, the benefits of employment.

We have a GST and this will no doubt increase.

Wealth taxes will come, the debate will be in what form and how much. 0.5% over $10m is no big issue.



I also understand your feelings as I would have sympathy for peasants gambling, tattooing, smoking and swilling piss their life away. It must be soul destroying watching them fk up their lives, their families and ruin their kids chances in life.

A wealth tax as you describe would be meaningless. Sure their are plenty of people that have that amount but not enough to collect much. We spend 10 Billion on unemployment benefits now and this will no doubt increase...that wealth tax would not scratch the surface.
By the way 60% of people fortunes are lost by the 2nd generation...90% by the third generation. This idea that families once rich stay that way is a fallacy. Sure there are exceptions but most rich/wealthy people now are newly rich having made their money in recent decades.

 

[kranky al]

you must be young?

Im 50.

you must be an im rightjack kinda fella

 

[CheapCharlie]

What a croc of. Young offenders are given many chances before they face a jail sentence. No adult offender who stole $100 has ever been given a jail sentence that is of course unless he used a knife or gun and threatened to kill the victim unless they handed over the cash and of course that is what many of these cowards get up to.
A financial planner who used forged documents to steal almost $5 million from his clients to fund his own salary, pay credit cards and for gambling has been sentenced to 10 years in prison. Yep they get jail.

We read all the time of investors losing tens of millions to scam developments. The people behind those scams almost never go to jail.
Steal a trivial amount of money and you are more likely to go to jail

 

[kranky al]

What a croc of. Young offenders are given many chances before they face a jail sentence. No adult offender who stole $100 has ever been given a jail sentence that is of course unless he used a knife or gun and threatened to kill the victim unless they handed over the cash and of course that is what many of these cowards get up to.
A financial planner who used forged documents to steal almost $5 million from his clients to fund his own salary, pay credit cards and for gambling has been sentenced to 10 years in prison. Yep they get jail.

Well allow me to retort:

DARWIN — On May 12, an unemployed homeless man was sentenced to 12 months' jail for the theft of a baby towel valued at $15. Kevin Anthony Cook took the towel from the backyard of a house on April 15 to use for a blanket because he was cold.

Because it was Cook's third property offence since the introduction of the Northern Territory's 1997 mandatory sentencing laws, he had to serve an automatic jail term of 12 months. Cook's earlier property offences were mostly for the theft of food and other items necessary for survival.>>>

<<<
Jamie Wurramara looked bewildered as he was led down the steps of a Northern Territory courthouse earlier this week, and well he might. The 21-year-old Aboriginal man had just been jailed for a year for stealing £9 worth of biscuits.

The penalty was the result of harsh mandatory sentencing laws which were also blamed for the death last week of a 15-year-old Aboriginal boy. The boy hanged himself after he was imprisoned for stealing pencils and paint.>>>>

 

[kranky al]

A wealth tax as you describe would be meaningless. Sure their are plenty of people that have that amount but not enough to collect much. We spend 10 Billion on unemployment benefits now and this will no doubt increase...that wealth tax would not scratch the surface.
By the way 60% of people fortunes are lost by the 2nd generation...90% by the third generation. This idea that families once rich stay that way is a fallacy. Sure there are exceptions but most rich/wealthy people now are newly rich having made their money in recent decades.

Just
Tax
Corporates

 

[DAlembert]

We read all the time of investors losing tens of millions to scam developments. The people behind those scams almost never go to jail.
Steal a trivial amount of money and you are more likely to go to jail

Evidence Please of what is a trivial amount of money and the jail sentences given. Just does not happen in the land of Oz.

 

[DAlembert]

Well allow me to retort:

DARWIN — On May 12, an unemployed homeless man was sentenced to 12 months' jail for the theft of a baby towel valued at $15. Kevin Anthony Cook took the towel from the backyard of a house on April 15 to use for a blanket because he was cold.

Because it was Cook's third property offence since the introduction of the Northern Territory's 1997 mandatory sentencing laws, he had to serve an automatic jail term of 12 months. Cook's earlier property offences were mostly for the theft of food and other items necessary for survival.>>>

<<<
Jamie Wurramara looked bewildered as he was led down the steps of a Northern Territory courthouse earlier this week, and well he might. The 21-year-old Aboriginal man had just been jailed for a year for stealing £9 worth of biscuits.

The penalty was the result of harsh mandatory sentencing laws which were also blamed for the death last week of a 15-year-old Aboriginal boy. The boy hanged himself after he was imprisoned for stealing pencils and paint.>>>>

By the way the subject is What I learnt about capitalism your off subject and deflecting. But of course you know that.

 

[DAlembert]

Just
Tax
Corporates

100 Billion comes from Corporates every year.

 

[kranky al]

100 Billion comes from Corporates every year.

Aaaand apple and google ....

<<<About one third of large companies have once again failed to pay a cent of tax, according to the Tax Office's latest corporate tax transparency report released on Thursday.

Key points:

• The ATO's corporate tax transparency data again shows that hundreds of companies have been able to reduce their tax bills to zero
• ATO deputy commissioner Rebecca Saint said the agency was still seeing some companies avoid tax by shifting profits offshore>>>

 

[Kram]

Give us all the background on these cases. Because I am not buying it. By the way the subject is What I learnt about capitalism your off subject and deflecting.

Must have had like 20 prior offenses or something.

edit - 3? Gotta be more to it than that

 

[kranky al]

Give us all the background on these cases. Because I am not buying it. By the way the subject is What I learnt about capitalism your off subject and deflecting.

When aboriginal men go to jail for fa and we have a royal commission that finds all sorts of #uckery and to this date none are in jail

itsquite obvious where the link to crapitalism is: the system is rigged

 

[DAlembert]

Aaaand apple and google ....

<<<About one third of large companies have once again failed to pay a cent of tax, according to the Tax Office's latest corporate tax transparency report released on Thursday.

Key points:

• The ATO's corporate tax transparency data again shows that hundreds of companies have been able to reduce their tax bills to zero
• ATO deputy commissioner Rebecca Saint said the agency was still seeing some companies avoid tax by shifting profits offshore>>>

Once again nothing to do with capitalism.

 

[kranky al]

Must have had like 20 prior offenses or something.

Read it - the nt came out with a 3 strikes law

do you know what that is?

3 strikes - get caught stealing 3 times and you go to jail - the judge gets no leeway - thats the whole point of 3 strikes legislation

back to

 

[DAlembert]

When aboriginal men go to jail for fa and we have a royal commission that finds all sorts of #uckery and to this date none are in jail

itsquite obvious where the link to crapitalism is: the system is rigged

Thread is about capitalism. I am sure there is a thread on aboriginals but I am not getting sucked into that discussion by you.