MVP Tommy Boyd - The Grand Final Enigma

[Monsieur Hulot]

Wills got to play next week with Tom playing deep forward - if not no other reason than to put some fear into Harry Taylor

 

[BRWB]

Boyd being gassed and buggered cost us the game against Hawks earlier this year. He had, from memory, 3 shots on goal in that last quarter including one while rucking, was looking like he could be a difference maker in a high intensity game... and proceeded to spend about the last 15 minutes on the bench where our forward structure completely fell away.

Part of me wants to hold off assessing him until we're fully aware of his physical capabilities. Last year he had to get his appendix removed after an emergency surgery and wasn't fully training until New Year. This year he looked very promising in two games (vs Hawks where he had a massive structural difference and vs Saints where he was leading goalkicker on the ground). He gets injured and now his fitness base gets ruined again.

I want to see Minson in and supporting Roughy in the ruck so we can see Boyd play 90% forward and be fresh, not 40% forward from rucking and completely buggered from having to effectively be a 1st ruck and a 1st key forward all at the same time. And then I want to see a full pre-season and then a season with no injuries next year so his lack of physical conditioning doesn't hold back his talent.

All good and well but right now do you think he is AFL standard? As IMO right now in his current role he is below standard.

Agree with you on Minson coming in and releasing Boyd to be pure fwd - not sure Bev does as he seems to dislike playing Minson. But from what I've seen it's hard to see Boyd doing much in the way of marks and goals irrespective of where he plays.

Hope I'm wrong.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

All good and well but right now do you think he is AFL standard? As IMO right now in his current role he is below standard.

Agree with you on Minson coming in and releasing Boyd to be pure fwd - not sure Bev does as he seems to dislike playing Minson. But from what I've seen it's hard to see Boyd doing much in the way of marks and goals irrespective of where he plays.

Hope I'm wrong.

Yes. He had 5 score involvements last night, for example, our equal second most after Bont.

 

[Bulldogs_6]

Best mates with Mitch Wallis. Interesting to see if the injury has any affect on Tom (whether that may be positive or otherwise).

 

[bresker]

Could really do with him stepping up now.

I think our coaching staff need to have the courage to change our gameplan and allow a full forward to do what he's born to. We aren't going to win a premiership this year playing with small semi-forwards.

 

[Syrah]

A pretty ordinary game, to be honest. I think having to spend so much time in the ruck found out his lack of fitness. He just wasn' t able to get to the right positions to be an option around the ground. One mark for the game is not good enough.

As for his forward work, it was probably inconclusive as he didn't spend enough time there and, when he was there, we either didn't kick to him or kicked badly. We should have tried to exploit his height/weight advantage over Roberton but we just refused to pull the trigger and get it in quickly - so much sideways kicking in that 50-70 meter range.

 

[Pannalstaroz]

 

[go the dogs]

People have to give Boyd a break. Franklin wouldn't get a kick with us the way we play. Was at the game and numerous times Boyd was 1 on 1 down the line. 1 stage he was opposed to Acres get it to him quick and give him a chance of building confidence. Instead of giving him a chance we look for other options. 8 seconds later nothing is on umpire calls play on and they kick it to him 1 on 3.
Then a couple of times he is clear on the lead and what do we do kick it 5 metres over his head. You watch any other team play and when there key forward is 1 on 1 they just go to him. Boyd still might not out mark them at this stage but he will rarely get out marked. With our other forwards not being overly tall we should be able to crumb at least 3 goals a week just form his contests.
Add to this they are playing him in the ruck and when he gets forward its after playing aorund the ground for 10 minutes. We have 5 games to go plus finals. Play Minson and let him play 90% forward for the season and lets see what he can do

 

[dergert]

Could be what time needs.

 

[Mofra]

I simply don't think he has the tank to play 40-50% ruck then be an effective target forward.
Maybe 20% giving a chop-out, but Boyd seems more comfortable forward. At best his ruckwork is "passable" but he does strangely have very quick hands, far better handballer than you'd expect from a KPF.

His best position is leading from the goalsquare, sadly with Red out he has to play his best position.

 

[boydsno1]

Boyd should be the number 1 target. Hope he stays FF for the rest of the year.

Too many times on Sat night he worked hard to be 1 out in the forward 50 only for our players to hold up the play waiting for another option. Once the Saints flooded back we went long to him in a pack situation.
Just stupid play. Atleast 3 or 4 occasions we should have just gone long to him quickly.

 

[boydsno1]

People have to give Boyd a break. Franklin wouldn't get a kick with us the way we play. Was at the game and numerous times Boyd was 1 on 1 down the line. 1 stage he was opposed to Acres get it to him quick and give him a chance of building confidence. Instead of giving him a chance we look for other options. 8 seconds later nothing is on umpire calls play on and they kick it to him 1 on 3.
Then a couple of times he is clear on the lead and what do we do kick it 5 metres over his head. You watch any other team play and when there key forward is 1 on 1 they just go to him. Boyd still might not out mark them at this stage but he will rarely get out marked. With our other forwards not being overly tall we should be able to crumb at least 3 goals a week just form his contests.
Add to this they are playing him in the ruck and when he gets forward its after playing aorund the ground for 10 minutes. We have 5 games to go plus finals. Play Minson and let him play 90% forward for the season and lets see what he can do

This. 100 times this. Everyone around me kept yelling out we have a ******* forward KICK IT TO HIM!!!!!!!

 

[Unnamed1]

People have to give Boyd a break. Franklin wouldn't get a kick with us the way we play. Was at the game and numerous times Boyd was 1 on 1 down the line. 1 stage he was opposed to Acres get it to him quick and give him a chance of building confidence. Instead of giving him a chance we look for other options. 8 seconds later nothing is on umpire calls play on and they kick it to him 1 on 3.
Then a couple of times he is clear on the lead and what do we do kick it 5 metres over his head. You watch any other team play and when there key forward is 1 on 1 they just go to him. Boyd still might not out mark them at this stage but he will rarely get out marked. With our other forwards not being overly tall we should be able to crumb at least 3 goals a week just form his contests.
Add to this they are playing him in the ruck and when he gets forward its after playing aorund the ground for 10 minutes. We have 5 games to go plus finals. Play Minson and let him play 90% forward for the season and lets see what he can do

I'm totally with you on this. But I look at it this way - is he in the right spot and they don't trust him, or is he in the wrong spot until we decide we're going to bomb it long down the line?

Either way, he got into various good positions and wasn't fed the ball, especially when in the forward 50 when team mates looked for shorter options than Boyd one out long.

 

[Beasht]

People have to give Boyd a break. Franklin wouldn't get a kick with us the way we play. Was at the game and numerous times Boyd was 1 on 1 down the line. 1 stage he was opposed to Acres get it to him quick and give him a chance of building confidence. Instead of giving him a chance we look for other options. 8 seconds later nothing is on umpire calls play on and they kick it to him 1 on 3.
Then a couple of times he is clear on the lead and what do we do kick it 5 metres over his head. You watch any other team play and when there key forward is 1 on 1 they just go to him. Boyd still might not out mark them at this stage but he will rarely get out marked. With our other forwards not being overly tall we should be able to crumb at least 3 goals a week just form his contests.
Add to this they are playing him in the ruck and when he gets forward its after playing aorund the ground for 10 minutes. We have 5 games to go plus finals. Play Minson and let him play 90% forward for the season and lets see what he can do

This. 100 times this. Everyone around me kept yelling out we have a ******* forward KICK IT TO HIM!!!!!!!

It was infuriating watching the boys time and time again get out marked 1 on 1 without even making a contest and bringing it to ground. I don't know what everyone expects Toyd to do when the ball comes in that slowly he is triple teamed but is still able to at least bring it to ground.

 

[BRWB]

So we can now add it's the team's fault for not kicking it to Boyd enough or quickly or accurately, and that is why he can't kick a goal.

Never seen so many excuses for a player's mediocrity.

Next week it will be how we kicked it to Harry Taylor all night or Boyd played ruck too much.

Sorry, but if you are a competent KPF you should be demanding and then marking the ball. At present Boyd does neither.

If he was a competent KPF I have no doubt Bev plays him there.

While it's worrying that Boyd is showing so little. I can accept that he is still young and needs more time (although most of his tall contemporaries have shown far more).

But please don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining.

Boyd simply isn't very good right now - and no if you are a KPF you should be marking the ball and kicking goals. Last week (and for much of his senior career to date) Boyd did neither.

 

[Dogsman16]

My major concern is that Boyd simply doesn't have enough avenues in kicking goals.

Take Jack Riewoldt for example. He has kicked 50 goals plus every season for the past 7 years. He is able to do it because he can do a number of things. A) leap on top of the pack and take pack marks, b) use strength to out body his opponents, c) he's athletic enough to get hit up on the lead regularly, d) he can involve himself at ground level and kick goals through ground ball gets.

How many boxes does Boyd tick in those areas. Currently about one of them he can do competently enough, and that only happens when he doesn't.t get out outbodied and can fly unimpeded for the ball.

How many of those can Hogan and Cameron do, probably all of them.

This is where my major concern lies.

 

[Senor Ed]

People have to give Boyd a break. Franklin wouldn't get a kick with us the way we play. Was at the game and numerous times Boyd was 1 on 1 down the line. 1 stage he was opposed to Acres get it to him quick and give him a chance of building confidence. Instead of giving him a chance we look for other options. 8 seconds later nothing is on umpire calls play on and they kick it to him 1 on 3.
Then a couple of times he is clear on the lead and what do we do kick it 5 metres over his head. You watch any other team play and when there key forward is 1 on 1 they just go to him. Boyd still might not out mark them at this stage but he will rarely get out marked. With our other forwards not being overly tall we should be able to crumb at least 3 goals a week just form his contests.
Add to this they are playing him in the ruck and when he gets forward its after playing aorund the ground for 10 minutes. We have 5 games to go plus finals. Play Minson and let him play 90% forward for the season and lets see what he can do

Agree with this completely.... Easton Wood absolutely torched two kicks to him that should have been easy uncontested marks where he worked himself into dangerous position with potential scoring range. There's not much anyone can do when it sails 5-10m over your head.

 

[immortalmike]

My major concern is that Boyd simply doesn't have enough avenues in kicking goals.

Take Jack Riewoldt for example. He has kicked 50 goals plus every season for the past 7 years. He is able to do it because he can do a number of things. A) leap on top of the pack and take pack marks, b) use strength to out body his opponents, c) he's athletic enough to get hit up on the lead regularly, d) he can involve himself at ground level and kick goals through ground ball gets.

How many boxes does Boyd tick in those areas. Currently about one of them he can do competently enough, and that only happens when he doesn't.t get out outbodied and can fly unimpeded for the ball.

How many of those can Hogan and Cameron do, probably all of them.

This is where my major concern lies.

In time he will bully players in general play like Hawkins, we've actually just seen evidence of this when he ripped the ball loose on the weekend winning about a three on one to set up a shot for a teammate.
At 200cm he'll never be as good as Cameron below his knees but at 200cm he doesn't have to be, his size will bring others into the game and therein lies his value. At this point I just want him to get a clear run at it.

 

[Dogsman16]

In time he will bully players in general play like Hawkins, we've actually just seen evidence of this when he ripped the ball loose on the weekend winning about a three on one to set up a shot for a teammate.
At 200cm he'll never be as good as Cameron below his knees but at 200cm he doesn't have to be, his size will bring others into the game and therein lies his value. At this point I just want him to get a clear run at it.

We need to start seeing this over the next 5 - 7 games.

I expect at very minimum come seasons end at least two goals a game from this period.

 

[Senor Ed]

Boyd should be the number 1 target. Hope he stays FF for the rest of the year.

Too many times on Sat night he worked hard to be 1 out in the forward 50 only for our players to hold up the play waiting for another option. Once the Saints flooded back we went long to him in a pack situation.
Just stupid play. Atleast 3 or 4 occasions we should have just gone long to him quickly.

I lost count how many times we decided to switch play from one wing / half forward flank to the other and then kick it long. The saints had already set up defensively once we wasted that time switching it. I'm all for switching it but you do it open up the other side to create space for the forwards to lead into. We moved the ball so slow from one wing to the other and then bombed it in when it would have been more productive to go long first time so we had genuine one on ones.

Switching it with 45 degree kicks open up the game. Switching it with sideways and backwards dont do anything but let the opposition set up. That tells me that:
A) saints were very good in getting back blocking space
b) we didnt work hard enough to create options
c) our decisions making and skill excution were poor

 

[immortalmike]

Agree with this completely.... Easton Wood absolutely torched two kicks to him that should have been easy uncontested marks where he worked himself into dangerous position with potential scoring range. There's not much anyone can do when it sails 5-10m over your head.

Was extremely frustrated at the game, several times he was in advantageous one on ones and his teammates absolutely ignored him in favour of chipping sideways. Directive this week should be to actually kick to him quickly. I think they only used him a grand total of 4-7 times all game by my count. This is disgraceful.

 

[immortalmike]

We need to start seeing this over the next 5 - 7 games.

I expect at very minimum come seasons end at least two goals a game from this period.

Only if he exclusively plays forward. If he plays half the game in the ruck don't expect anything.

 

[Pannalstaroz]

The peaks and troughs of people's expectations on him are ridiculous. Guess what guys? The way he plays and the way he is going to play, you guys are going to be really disappointed for another 2 seasons if you want him to be dominant. He won't be. HE'S NOT STRONG ENOUGH YET!!!!

 

[boydsno1]

That's it. Kick it long to him quickly one out. If he doesn't mark it he brings it to ground. Smith/Dickson should be hovering around him to get the scraps.

 

[Dogsman16]

Only if he exclusively plays forward. If he plays half the game in the ruck don't expect anything.

Yeah of course.

He has to play exclusively forward though. We can't have The hawthorn and North situation early this year when we bombed in on stringers head every single time.