Free Agency Tom De Koning - Joins St Kilda as an RFA, Carlton get Band 1 compensation (Pick 9)

[Jeremias]

This thread might be going for a while. Please respect board rules and each other.

As a starting point, let's leave any references to 'culture' at the door.

Thread bans and infractions will be handed out as necessary.

Thanks.

 

[The Devils detailer]

You wouldn't want to offer the biggest contract in history to a free agent only to have it matched, when you can now trade your first, future first and future future first round picks....

 

[stavro#4]

You wouldn't want to offer the biggest contract in history to a free agent only to have it matched, when you can now trade your first, future first and future future first round picks....

Wait until you blokes get to the trade table.

Your first 3 picks in year 1 2 and 3 for Ari Shoenmaker.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

I hope he chooses to go so we can really stress test the system and see what happens. Logically, St Kilda paying 1.7m a year AS WELL two likely decent first round picks is insanity but pulling out of the offer also is a very very bad idea for a club that historically struggles to attract big names.

Would be one of the spicier threads of all time I'd think

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

My god mate.

Your list isn’t worthy of contention this year. Who are you grabbing to get you there next once you retain TDK?

Why would he help Carlton? The simple fact is that he owes them no loyalty. They don’t want to pay him and he wants to stay. Why would he do anything but look after his own interest which is - get paid and aim for a flag.
Dsx
And free agency is going to get him paid at Carlton and you will lose players to accomodate this or it will get Carlton a band 1 compo. There isn’t some negotiation here. This is the entire reason for the astronomical offer of 1.7m. That is how we have played the system.

If he was worth that 1.7m deal - you and other clubs would be ponying up the same cash.

This is just typical Saints brain. Why would TDK not want to help Carlton on the way out if the only reason he's leaving is because the Saints are offering him an astronomical amount of cash. Has stated he loves the club and he wants to stay if we can get close to the offer.

Nobody is going to the Saints to try and win a flag, the single and only reason is for a truckload of $$$$$. No reason he'd be bitter enough to try and screw us on the way out or if he stays.

 

[stavro#4]

This is just typical Saints brain. Why would TDK not want to help Carlton on the way out if the only reason he's leaving is because the Saints are offering him an astronomical amount of cash. Has stated he loves the club and he wants to stay if we can get close to the offer.

Nobody is going to the Saints to try and win a flag, the single and only reason is for a truckload of $$$$$. No reason he'd be bitter enough to try and screw us on the way out or if he stays.

Yep that’s it mate.

Everyone wants to help Carlton and no one wants to come to the saints unless we pay them an entire salary cap and give the other club all our players and picks for allowing us the privilege of not matching our offer.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Yep that’s it mate.

Everyone wants to help Carlton and no one wants to come to the saints unless we pay them an entire salary cap and give the other club all our players and picks for allowing us the privilege of not matching our offer.

That's pretty accurate over the last 4-5 years.

TDK loves the Blues, Saints are just an annoying vermin that managers use as leverage for a bigger payday and happen to have a warchest saved up for this year.

 

[stavro#4]

That's pretty accurate over the last 4-5 years.

TDK loves the Blues, Saints are just an annoying vermin that managers use as leverage for a bigger payday and happen to have a warchest saved up for this year.

Well I look forward to TDK re-signing for 1.5m.

If it isn’t him. Someone will eventually come. Purely because we will get to the point where clubs won’t be matching these offers or unable to bridge the gap.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Well I look forward to TDK re-signing for 1.5m.

If it isn’t him. Someone will eventually come. Purely because we will get to the point where clubs won’t be matching these offers or unable to bridge the gap.

What a brilliant culture that will set the Saints up for! Good luck to you

 

[beside the seaside]

I hope he chooses to go so we can really stress test the system and see what happens. Logically, St Kilda paying 1.7m a year AS WELL two likely decent first round picks is insanity but pulling out of the offer also is a very very bad idea for a club that historically struggles to attract big names.

Would be one of the spicier threads of all time I'd think

The reason you go for free agents is that you don't have to pay draft capital. If they match of course we'd pull out and he'd stay at Carlton.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

The reason you go for free agents is that you don't have to pay draft capital. If they match of course we'd pull out and he'd stay at Carlton.

Once again, how do you think player managers and the AFLPA would look at that? Nobody seems to want to answer that.

 

[stavro#4]

What a brilliant culture that will set the Saints up for! Good luck to you

Boss does a good job of explaining our culture right here.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

The reason you go for free agents is that you don't have to pay draft capital. If they match of course we'd pull out and he'd stay at Carlton.

There's no of course about it, it has never happened before but I'm keen to see if a club ever does it, certainly a case where it might be justified. I'm more inclined to believe it would be a, you can match but it will be no more than this <insert amount here> which is like marginally better than what they'd get as FA compo.

I'd think if Carlton somehow save their season and make finals, there is no world they take that compo.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Midfielders the priority... Let's chuck the biggest contract in history at a 2nd ruck.

Sainters cultcha!

 

[beside the seaside]

Once again, how do you think player managers and the AFLPA would look at that? Nobody seems to want to answer that.

Why would they care, he's getting the same contract?

 

[projectv]

Why would they care, he's getting the same contract?

They'd probably thank St Kilda for inflating future contract deals.

 

[THE_GUN]

How is there not an obligation? The Saints would torn to shreds by the AFLPA and Player Managers mafia. They'd be lucky to make a trade for a player of Francis Evans caliber if they pulled a stunt like that.

They've courted him for a year, offered him the biggest contract in league history and then they refuse to stump up a trade if Carlton matched the offer? They'd be blacklisted by every manager going around for years afterwards.

Now you are being delusional

Managers are after the best deal possible for the player they represent and wont change a thing
they will continually do what they always do and negotiate and use St Kilda & Carlton to get better deals

Nobody is black listing anybody

 

[stavro#4]

There's no of course about it, it has never happened before but I'm keen to see if a club ever does it, certainly a case where it might be justified. I'm more inclined to believe it would be a, you can match but it will be no more than this <insert amount here> which is like marginally better than what they'd get as FA compo.

I'd think if Carlton somehow save their season and make finals, there is no world they take that compo.

So then they would move players on to create room in their cap to retain and the current issue is that they just aren’t good enough to win the flag as assembled. How does retaining make that happen?

The honest answer here is that Carlton have to let someone go - for unders.

Be it Walsh. McKay or TDK.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

So then they would move players on to create room in their cap to retain and the current issue is that they just aren’t good enough to win the flag as assembled. How does retaining make that happen?

The honest answer here is that Carlton have to let someone go - for unders.

Be it Walsh. McKay or TDK.

As mentioned by Forty3 the rules are cooked enough it doesnt matter. They can say they'll match a bid and pay him his match payments and like 3m in the final year when none of their list is contracted. It's set up so that you can basically always match if you want to.

If you're referring to actually having to pay him the contract I dont think it matters because they are only "matching" to get better compensation.

Having said that, like I hope he leaves because the system wont have seen a greater stress test than this. We could some first time things happen if either side is stubborn enough. I am also not opposed to Carlton getting shafted on compo, it works fine for me.

stavro#4 edited slightly to make my point more accurate

 

[stavro#4]

As mentioned by Forty3 the rules are cooked enough it doesnt matter. They can say they'll match a bid and pay him his match payments and like 3m in the final year when none of their list is contracted. It's set up so that you can basically always match if you want to.

If you're referring to actually having to pay him the contract I dont think it matters because they are only "matching" to get better compensation.

Having said that, like I hope he leaves because the system wont have seen a greater stress test than this. We could some first time things happen if either side is stubborn enough. I am also not opposed to Carlton getting shafted on compo, it works fine for me.

stavro#4 edited slightly to make my point more accurate

The middle point is the biggest point of contention. Because based off EVERYTHING that has been mentioned. The one constant is that he wants to remain a blue.

Why is he leaving if they create the space to match (just to better compensation) that’s his gateway to staying. The scenario isn’t that he wants to leave. It’s that the money is too good to turn down.

If the money is the same. He stays. The saints won’t be paying what it considers overs and Ross literally gave the example of Kemp half an hour ago.

Right player. Wanted to come. Money was there. But we didn’t want to give more than a third round pick - it was disciplined.

Apply it to TDK. The man has literally just told the AFL world how we will handle ourselves.

1.05

 

[DT_35]

Midfielders the priority... Let's chuck the biggest contract in history at a 2nd ruck.

Sainters cultcha!

Why are you so b*tthurt? Lmao

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

The middle point is the biggest point of contention. Because based off EVERYTHING that has been mentioned. The one constant is that he wants to remain a blue.

Why is he leaving if they create the space to match (just to better compensation) that’s his gateway to staying. The scenario isn’t that he wants to leave. It’s that the money is too good to turn down.

If the money is the same. He stays. The saints won’t be paying what it considers overs and Ross literally gave the example of Kemp half an hour ago.

Right player. Wanted to come. Money was there. But we didn’t want to give more than a third round pick - it was disciplined.

Apply it to TDK. The man has literally just told the AFL world how we will handle ourselves.

1.05

Because TDK would know Carlton can't actually afford to pay the full contract with the other names they have signed up long term. They'd just be shuffling cash to make sure they can match the offer to force a trade without ever having an intention of keeping him on that much $ because both TDK and Carlton know they can't afford it without destroying their list.

I'm not sure how many more times it needs to be explained to you. Forty3 works for the club and he laid it out in pretty simple terms.

 

[stavro#4]

Because TDK would know Carlton can't actually afford to pay the full contract with the other names they have signed up long term. They'd just be shuffling cash to make sure they can match the offer to force a trade without ever having an intention of keeping him on that much $ because both TDK and Carlton know they can't afford it without destroying their list.

I'm not sure how many more times it needs to be explained to you. Forty3 works for the club and he laid it out in pretty simple terms.

So if TDK knows Carlton can’t actually pay. Why wouldn’t the saints ?

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

So if TDK knows Carlton can’t actually pay. Why wouldn’t the saints ?

Like talking to a brick wall. Hopeless.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

The middle point is the biggest point of contention. Because based off EVERYTHING that has been mentioned. The one constant is that he wants to remain a blue.

Why is he leaving if they create the space to match (just to better compensation) that’s his gateway to staying. The scenario isn’t that he wants to leave. It’s that the money is too good to turn down.

If the money is the same. He stays. The saints won’t be paying what it considers overs and Ross literally gave the example of Kemp half an hour ago.

Right player. Wanted to come. Money was there. But we didn’t want to give more than a third round pick - it was disciplined.

Apply it to TDK. The man has literally just told the AFL world how we will handle ourselves.

1.05

 

[stavro#4]

Like talking to a brick wall. Hopeless.

It really isn’t. What you are saying makes no sense and is make believe.

Fact is that there is nothing that says we have to trade or agree to your terms.

We could say, sure here is our third round pick. Take it or leave it.

Lyon literally just said that what we value a player at asset wise drives the conversation. Not the need or the money on offer.

We value TDK at 1.7m because it’s to bring him across as a free agent.

We don’t value him at 1.7m a year and draft assets.

That is the part none of you Carlton supporters understand.

So if you match - he will stay.