MVP Tommy Boyd - The Grand Final Enigma

[Charlie Bucket]

Ok m8 just for shits and giggles. Max Gawn had played 39 games at the start of 2016 (his first full season). He was AA that yr. So Gawn was AA having played about the same amount of games that Boyd has.

Grundy was selected.in the U22 AA team twice by the time he was Boyds age...

How do you like them apples?

Gawn was a massive spud over the first few years of his career and struggled to get a game. Then everything clicked. Won AA in his breakout year.
Happens with most big men. Including Grundy, he showed plenty of potential but really only starting taking games after 4-5 years.

 

[Charlie Bucket]

Gawn is 26. Only began getting a regular spot in the Dees side at 22-23. Prior to that, massive spud. Showed less than Boyd at the same age.

 

[bobby2]

Far from insane to move out a $750k a yr player who is a projected liability. Just IMO.

You wouldn't be saving 750k a year, you'd only be saving the amount Carlton are willing to pay him. If we say to them "take him off our hands", they'll say "only if you pay a solid chunk of his salary". If they are willing to give him 500k a year, that would save us 1.5 million over the next three years.

In the meantime, we'd need to find an alternative forward/second ruck and pay them appropriately. Bevo doesn't like plodders, so we can't just pick up someone with a big body from the state leagues. To grab a second ruck that fits bevo's gameplan with an AFL ready body from another club, we'd probably need to pay them a pretty decent amount (for reference, Chris Dawes would've set us back 500k before the new bargaining agreement). I'd challenge you to name a player who we could realistically replace Boyd with who could perform at a similar level for significantly less than 500k or provide better value at a higher price. Also consider the picks that we may have to give up to acquire this player.

Also keep in mind that after three years, we can renegotiate a new deal with Boyd. He's not on 750k forever.

 

[VogonProsthetnic]

Why would you trade out your best ruck whose only 22? Who does that?

 

[BRWB]

Why would you trade out your best ruck whose only 22? Who does that?

Because he isnt that good? because English will overtake him next yr?

You wouldn't be saving 750k a year, you'd only be saving the amount Carlton are willing to pay him. If we say to them "take him off our hands", they'll say "only if you pay a solid chunk of his salary". If they are willing to give him 500k a year, that would save us 1.5 million over the next three years.

In the meantime, we'd need to find an alternative forward/second ruck and pay them appropriately. Bevo doesn't like plodders, so we can't just pick up someone with a big body from the state leagues. To grab a second ruck that fits bevo's gameplan with an AFL ready body from another club, we'd probably need to pay them a pretty decent amount (for reference, Chris Dawes would've set us back 500k before the new bargaining agreement). I'd challenge you to name a player who we could realistically replace Boyd with who could perform at a similar level for significantly less than 500k or provide better value at a higher price. Also consider the picks that we may have to give up to acquire this player.

Also keep in mind that after three years, we can renegotiate a new deal with Boyd. He's not on 750k forever.

I am certain Trengove could play fwd ruck and serve up 2.7 marks a game, no fwd pressure and get soundly beaten in the ruck for far less money...

And maybe Carlton would pay him the high amount if we virtually gave him away. Depends on our cap and the FAs we want to target.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Because he isnt that good? because English will overtake him next yr?

And if English has ongoing foot problems? Can't put on weight? Does his ACL? Doesn't develop nicely? And in any other case who's our second ruck for the future? Who are we replacing Boyd with and how?

With all due respect, I think what you're advocating is nonsensical and overzealous, even if you don't rate him.

 

[SteelF6]

I am certain Trengove could play fwd ruck and serve up 2.7 marks a game, no fwd pressure and get soundly beaten in the ruck for far less money...

And maybe Carlton would pay him the high amount if we virtually gave him away. Depends on our cap and the FAs we want to target.

Would you also be happy with what Trengrove would serve up around the ground over Boyd? Id think not.
Boyd is a decent ball user and link up player for big guy.

 

[Testekill]

The big concern for English is that we don't want to pull a Josh Fraser where he hold downs the ruck before he's physically developed and ends up broken down by the time he's in his mid-late 20's.

 

[Mofra]

You wouldn't be saving 750k a year, you'd only be saving the amount Carlton are willing to pay him. If we say to them "take him off our hands", they'll say "only if you pay a solid chunk of his salary". If they are willing to give him 500k a year, that would save us 1.5 million over the next three years.

Probably less, as it's likely his front loaded years are over with once 2018 is done.

 

[BRWB]

And if English has ongoing foot problems? Can't put on weight? Does his ACL? Doesn't develop nicely? And in any other case who's our second ruck for the future? Who are we replacing Boyd with and how?

With all due respect, I think what you're advocating is nonsensical and overzealous, even if you don't rate him.

Thats why you have back ups. With all due respect $750k is overpaying for a backup. Continuing down that path is nonsensical. Pay McKernan $150k a yr to be a backup or Rough.

Seriously, unless Boyd learns to mark, he won't hold a spot fwd and will only play if English is injured. Move him on before everyone wakes up to Boyd being nothing more than a non marking, non tap follower.

 

[The Slitherin' Snake]

Thats why you have back ups. With all due respect $750k is overpaying for a backup. Continuing down that path is nonsensical. Pay McKernan $150k a yr to be a backup or Rough.

Seriously, unless Boyd learns to mark, he won't hold a spot fwd and will only play if English is injured. Move him on before everyone wakes up to Boyd being nothing more than a non marking, non tap follower.

I don't agree with moving him, but if you wanted to do it now you'd be moving him on at his lowest value. Contract is still large which would scare away other teams

 

[BRWB]

I don't agree with moving him, but if you wanted to do it now you'd be moving him on at his lowest value. Contract is still large which would scare away other teams

His value won't get any better in the VFL which is where I think he will be if English progresses as well as I expect. Lets face it English's numbers are already better than Boyd. Is already more mobile, a better user, and taller.

The only way Boyd plays is if he can justify 60-70% fwd. 12 contested marks in his last 20 and 2.7 marks game says he can't. You simply cant be as slow as he is and not mark the pill. Not in the AFL.

I really hope I'm wrong but unless his marking somehow dramatically improves I dont see an AFL fwd. Guys he was initially compared to development wise like Kennedy and Hawkins were marking it 5 or 6 times a game from their second or third yrs.

People will say playing ruck somehow stops him developing or marking jt. Wrong. Playing in the weakest ruck division in the league is only the way he plays at all. His marking is that poor, Bev simply cant play him fwd (even in one of the weakest marking fwd lines in the league).

 

[The Slitherin' Snake]

His value won't get any better in the VFL which is where I think he will be if English progresses as well as I expect. Lets face it English's numbers are already better than Boyd. Is already more mobile, a better user, and taller.

The only way Boyd plays is if he can justify 60-70% fwd. 12 contested marks in his last 20 and 2.7 marks game says he can't. You simply cant be as slow as he is and not mark the pill. Not in the AFL.

I really hope I'm wrong but unless his marking somehow dramatically improves I dont see an AFL fwd. Guys he was initially compared to development wise like Kennedy and Hawkins were marking it 5 or 6 times a game from their second or third yrs.

People will say playing ruck somehow stops him developing or marking jt. Wrong. Playing in the weakest ruck division in the league is only the way he plays at all. His marking is that poor, Bev simply cant play him fwd (even in one of the weakest marking fwd lines in the league).

Even if his ability doesnt increase, his value will as his contract become less onerous

 

[Johnny_Dogg4]

give tom an extended period of time before making judgments
ive been a critic of boyd, but i always believed he needs a full season and confidence

= his marking is crap i know. but so is the whole team excluding adams.

 

[maddog37]

There seems to be a broken record in here.

 

[BRWB]

There seems to be a broken record in here.

Point taken m8, I'm done.

But while we are delivering unsolicited feedback, you might try taking your own advice and stop being a negative smart arse with many of your posts - FYI you are rarely amusing or informative.

 

[maddog37]

Point taken m8, I'm done.

But while we are delivering unsolicited feedback, you might try taking your own advice and stop being a negative smart arse with many of your posts - FYI you are rarely amusing or informative.

As long as my point is taken and we no longer have to read your incessant harping on players negative attributes then I’m happy.

You and I have very different views which is fine but making the same argument 100 times with differing words becomes tedious very quickly.

 

[BRWB]

As long as my point is taken and we no longer have to read your incessant harping on players negative attributes then I’m happy.

You and I have very different views which is fine but making the same argument 100 times with differing words becomes tedious very quickly.

Glad we understand each other

 

[maddog37]

Glad we understand each other

All good my end Brwb. Life is boring if we all agree and whilst we seem to annoy each other at times, we are both obviously footy tragics.

I will endeavour to be less pithy.

 

[Tommycash]

Thats why you have back ups. With all due respect $750k is overpaying for a backup.

Could be worse. "It is understood Tippett has signed a four-year contract worth $3.55 million" (and that was way back in 2012!)

 

[doggies ftw]

English showed very promising signs but theres no way his overall games were better than Boyds as number 1 ruck.

 

[yebiga]

* my brumby
How old is Boyd?

 

[ossie_21]

**** my brumby
How old is Boyd?

Turns 23 in about 7 weeks

 

[True Dog]

All good my end Brwb. Life is boring if we all agree and whilst we seem to annoy each other at times, we are both obviously footy tragics.

I will endeavour to be less pithy.

You two get a room....

 

[True Dog]

**** my brumby
How old is Boyd?

This..... The Boyd we see now will be unrecognizable in 2 years.