Mega Thread Trade and List Management discussion

[maddog37]

My big thing is take people for what they are and exploit their strengths. Don't try and make them something they're not.

Fair enough but Libba had no spread and now he is working on getting outside a bit. Griff became a more complete player by working on his inside game. Same thing as Jones working on his strength in the contest rather than trying to avoid contact all the time so he can get a free jump.

 

[GrandBlue]

This thread's entertaining as usual, as far as trades go.

Also:
-Cooney will not be a part of our Premiership Challenging Team.
-Stringer will never be a full-time forward; more likely to play in defense full-time than up forward, although he should really become a midfielder.

Bookmark it.

 

[Doggies_13]

No way Sydney trade Reid for pick 20, and I can't see gws giving up jaksch AND orourke as well as their picks for pick 5. Like the aggressive thinking though.

Draftwatchers, how do you rate the late first/early 2nd round of the draft?? The picks 12-25 tier???

I agree they may not go for both but my thinking was Gws may need to start trimming their list as Gold Coast had to but i may be wrong there, but if they are going to be pushed out anyway gws may just go for it as they would end up with two top 5 picks to go after someone or 2 top five talents again, Gws may look at it but agree Reid for 20 is wishful thinking

 

[Pannalstaroz]

Fair enough but Libba had no spread and now he is working on getting outside a bit. Griff became a more complete player by working on his inside game. Same thing as Jones working on his strength in the contest rather than trying to avoid contact all the time so he can get a free jump.

You're talking about players adding slightly to their core strength to bring more to the table. Jones CAN take a contested mark standing under it the way Libba can get outside, but it's not their core game- turning Libba into an outside runner would be very difficult, like taking Jones' core ability of running, jumping and marking and trying to turn him into Cloke.

 

[Pannalstaroz]

This thread's entertaining as usual, as far as trades go.

Also:
-Cooney will not be a part of our Premiership Challenging Team.
-Stringer will never be a full-time forward; more likely to play in defense full-time than up forward, although he should really become a midfielder.

Bookmark it.

I agree with this. Cooney's class will be instrumental in the development of the group to get to the premiership however.

 

[Dav1d]

I think Jaksch is a lot like Roberts to be honest
I hope if we do start trading picks, we keep some live picks for the draft

I know I'm dreaming but,
our first + Talia for Patton and GWSs end of first round pick
Pick up Duggan with that pick, trade our second rounder for Henry Schade and Gold Coasts second rounder
Pick up another classy mid at that pick or best KPP and probably get Cordy in the third round

 

[womble54]

I'll have a go:

Smith, JJ and 2nd round upgrade for Carlisle and 2nd round downgrade - he's AA and that's what we would demand

1st and 2nd round for Patton and a young player at GWS who isn't a name or early pick but needs a chance somewhere else.

If Higgins gets a decent hit from melbourne, dawks or similar and wants it we use the second round on Jesse Watchman so we have a very good plan B coming up behind Patton who can be given time in the 2's to develop.

Pull all that off and its trade period of the century.

Use first rounders thereafter to draft speed and tighten the backline for when Murph and Glove move into the stands with us.

 

[House_of_Dahl]

If we could land Patton and Carlisle for our 1st and 2nd rounders plus JJ and Smith I would absolutely take it. Seems unlikely though.

 

[Dav1d]

I think this year go for Patton, next year our first rounder + a player for Carlisle

GWS don't want a load of picks, they'll want players and I think Talia fills an immediate need and could be a good match with Phil Davis (once he gets back)

GWSs second pick probably doesn't get us Duggan but still a few classy players around this area with a lot of the KPP prospects, Schade fills the temporary void of Talia until we can get Carlisle and gives us added depth in the KPD area

So in two years with a lot of luck I'm hoping we could have Patton up forward and Carlisle down back, that would excite a lot of members and help a lot towards putting bums in seats, I'm dreaming big but hoping we really take a shot ...

 

[Pannalstaroz]

I think this year go for Patton, next year our first rounder + a player for Carlisle

GWS don't want a load of picks, they'll want players and I think Talia fills an immediate need and could be a good match with Phil Davis (once he gets back)

GWSs second pick probably doesn't get us Duggan but still a few classy players around this area with a lot of the KPP prospects, Schade fills the temporary void of Talia until we can get Carlisle and gives us added depth in the KPD area

So in two years with a lot of luck I'm hoping we could have Patton up forward and Carlisle down back, that would excite a lot of members and help a lot towards putting bums in seats, I'm dreaming big but hoping we really take a shot ...

The issue is getting Carlisle while he's possibly not in love with Essendon. Don't give him a chance to play well and fall back in love with them. Hold out your hand, ask him to take it, tell him you love him and lead him to a premiership at the kennel.

 

[fronkalicious]

Trading for players that are contacted = having to shell out massive overs via trade (why else would their clubs let them go?).

Trading for players that are off-contract = getting them at market rates or slight unders (Crameri).

Soooo, given that cameron, Patton, Tomlinson, Carlisle and Boyd are all contracted for next season........surely we use our trade chips in other areas this off-season and load up in the summer of 2015 to land one, possibly 2, KPP.

 

[Dav1d]

Trading for players that are contacted = having to shell out massive overs via trade (why else would their clubs let them go?).

Trading for players that are off-contract = getting them at market rates or slight unders (Crameri).

Soooo, given that cameron, Patton, Tomlinson, Carlisle and Boyd are all contracted for next season........surely we use our trade chips in other areas this off-season and load up in the summer of 2015 to land one, possibly 2, KPP.

What did you have in mind for the end of this season and the trade period? don't think we'll honestly get one of Mackay or Rosa unfortunately

 

[fronkalicious]

What did you have in mind for the end of this season and the trade period? don't think we'll honestly get one of Mackay or Rosa unfortunately

Posted some initial thoughts a few hours back dav1d. I wonder if we should look at trading down with gold coast (picks 13 and 14) or gws (picks 20 and 22) to pick up multiple picks and a young prospect, if that part of the draft is considered strong (as it was 2 years ago for example with Grundy, kennedy, hrovat etc still on the board).

If we did something like that I'd be happy to put our second round pick on the table for the right player via trade. Then take Cordy with our 3rd rounder.

 

[Dav1d]

Posted some initial thoughts a few hours back dav1d. I wonder if we should look at trading down with gold coast (picks 13 and 14) or gws (picks 20 and 22) to pick up multiple picks and a young prospect, if that part of the draft is considered strong (as it was 2 years ago for example with Grundy, kennedy, hrovat etc still on the board).

If we did something like that I'd be happy to put our second round pick on the table for the right player via trade. Then take Cordy with our 3rd rounder.

that could work,

I do want a player like Patton and don't really think we would be able to compete with the other clubs, frankly I think they'd find the other clubs a far more attractive destination; I mean young players generally like to clubs that have success and we have been pretty close, but near enough isn't good enough

racking my brain thinking of players we could get from these clubs if a trade like that was to go down, got to get lots of young talent and mature talent on the list or the crowd attendances might just continue to dip down

 

[paulveed]

There is no doubt we need a forward who can take a grab, and kick regular goals. But unlike a lot on here I remain unconvinced that this automatically equates to a gorilla. Sure guys like Tony Lockett make great spearheads, but they are not the only prototype that can succeed. Going back in time, Chris Grant, Templeton, Beasley for us, Peter Hudson [Haw], Tony Modra [ Crows]. Now, while Tippet is tall, it his pace rather than being a gorilla that is his strength as a FF.
What I am getting at is there is more than one way to skin the cat. Hawkins and Patton is not the only prototype that could fulfil our KPF needs.
With a hopefully improving Jones, a resting ruck and a fast tall good marking forward in our front 6, we might prove an even harder front group to
combat than if we had a less mobile gorilla down forward.
I am not ruling out that Patton/Hawkins type, but I don't think we should restrict our thinking to just that one type as our only option, when a bit of outside-the-square thinking might prove as, or even more effective.

 

[Pannalstaroz]

There is no doubt we need a forward who can take a grab, and kick regular goals. But unlike a lot on here I remain unconvinced that this automatically equates to a gorilla. Sure guys like Tony Lockett make great spearheads, but they are not the only prototype that can succeed. Going back in time, Chris Grant, Templeton, Beasley for us, Peter Hudson [Haw], Tony Modra [ Crows]. Now, while Tippet is tall, it his pace rather than being a gorilla that is his strength as a FF.
What I am getting at is there is more than one way to skin the cat. Hawkins and Patton is not the only prototype that could fulfil our KPF needs.
With a hopefully improving Jones, a resting ruck and a fast tall good marking forward in our front 6, we might prove an even harder front group to
combat than if we had a less mobile gorilla down forward.
I am not ruling out that Patton/Hawkins type, but I don't think we should restrict our thinking to just that one type as our only option, when a bit of outside-the-square thinking might prove as, or even more effective.

It's not a case of only thinking that way but remember we are building a Premiership team, not a finals team. There are not many a Premiership teams that I can think of that didn't have a true FF in their team. You can paint the picture any way you like but year after year after year the model remains the same, in the big games you need someone to stand under the ball kicked under pressure and mark it. And then kick the goal. There is no point being cute about this, the game has shown that the grand final is won by mature, strong, big bodies. This is what our recent drafting has focused on and what our target must be going forward is a KPF with these attributes. 195-200cm, well built, can mark and can kick. I am very, very strong on this.

 

[BRWB]

Guys if we are fair dinkum about snaring a KPF who will be around when our list is peaking we would need to trade a very high quality player to GWS. GWS are in a situation where they need to get better quickly and will trade aggressively to do this in my view at the end of the off season. If their trading works they will be better placed to retain their players. Obviously if not then we along with 16 other clubs will try picking their players off next year.

So with that in mind I think this is the year to trade with GWS.

But that brings us back to the question, who is the high quality player we can trade?

Geelong made an interesting trade a while ago, they traded a heart and soul high quality player they had an excess of - Maloney (apparently loved the club), plus their first round pick to get Ottens.

Who are the players we have an excess of? Inside players..Ryan Griffen they would do a very good deal for us.

But would I want to? Probably not. Would the club? Nah.

So if not Griffen, who do we trade who is of sufficient quality?

I just went through all of our inside mids and can't see us trading our good ones and the others just aren't worth it. Possibly Wallis and Smith - personally I would want to keep Wallis more than Smith as with Boyd going, Wallis looks a far better player, happened last year and again this year.

One name that hasn't come up but is a player that would make the GWS instantly a far better team in a major area of weakness?

Dale Morris.

Yes he may only last one or two more years (hence we can afford to trade him). But GWS need to stem the bleeding next year in order to retain their players, and Dale Morris would do that.

I'd wager that Smith and Morris plus our first round pick would likely land us Patton plus something or someone. But many would argue that is too a high price to pay. Is it?

 

[fronkalicious]

Gws just don't need guys like wallis and smith. Roughead, talia and dahlhous are the 3 that stand out for me as players they'd covet. Roughead and talia obviously cover their key defence posts and their forward 50m pressure and crumbing around cameron/Patton is just awful. Cameron and Boyd playing deep, Tomlinson playing high bald forward and dal/Devon smith at their feet is a great set up.

So who do we want to give up?

 

[Doggies_13]

Looking at both GWS and Gold Coast they both have their advantages rolled back at the end of next season GWS lose 120k from their cap and have to reduce 2 players from their list while gold coast become afl standard next season losing an extra 400k from their salary cap. I think GWS are the ones to go after they need to make at least 5 changes to their list as they need 3 spaces in the draft. I would be going for both Jaksch and O'Rourke and at least one of pick 20 or 21/22 or even both. We need to be aggressive in the off season and not just take what comes or pay overs.

Us - O'Rourke Jaksch pick 20 and /or 21/22

Gws - Pick 5

I doubt they would get a better offer than that they don't need a massive amount of picks and they would end up with two top 5 picks in this draft.
An off season of
Jaksch
O'Rourke
Cordy (3rd rounder)
Picks 20
21/22 ?
25

Another name to throw up for a forward option would maybe be Mitch Brown from Geelong

 

[doggies ftw]

I reckon people underestimate how good Clay Smith will be. Been a write off year but he will be back. Would offer GWS a hell of a lot. Hope we hold on to him though and I reckon we will.

 

[Mofra]

I know I'm dreaming but,
our first + Talia for Patton and GWSs end of first round pick
Pick up Duggan with that pick, trade our second rounder for Henry Schade and Gold Coasts second rounder
Pick up another classy mid at that pick or best KPP and probably get Cordy in the third round

Even if a life-long Bulldog supporter did go, GWS wouldn't let contracted Patton go unless it was a monster offer - they wanted Trent Cotchin for pick 1!

 

[Mofra]

I'd wager that Smith and Morris plus our first round pick would likely land us Patton plus something or someone. But many would argue that is too a high price to pay. Is it?

I'm not sure Maloney is in the same league as a "heart and soul" player like Morris, and Griffen truned down extra $$$ from Essendon to stay with us - from a list management point of view, anyone that stays with us for unders should be kept.

I know Dahlhaus had been nominated, but the kids love him - some may follow him to GWS if he was to be traded.

We have to face the fact that as a bottom 4 (or close to it) side we don't have much currency. A Tutt or Hrovat + first round pick may be a starting point but we'd have to add a lot more to it.

 

[yebiga]

I would seriously target Carlisle
Essendon need a little bit more inside grunt which we possess in number - so they maybe tempted
I dread another period negotiating with Dodoro so maybe not.
As for landing a serious kpf, unless Boyd is disgruntled at GWS there will be none available - They will not give up Patton or Cameron.

Our best bet is to get another 3-4 tall prospects on our list and develop them

Trouble is our coaching group is reluctant to even play the ones we have now.

 

[Pannalstaroz]

Being completely objective (ie taking emotion out of it) I would trade Griff for Patton. I think it could be a straight swap. Griff is a very good player, even though I've belted him a bit for his output this year - I don't think he puts himself in the right position to be offensively damaging enough - but they get a bona fide All Aus mid and we take a punt that this 21yo kid will be a 10 year player and hitting his straps at the same time as the other kids around him.

Now I say I'm being objective because for club culture, respect etc you don't trade your best player and captain out of the club but if it was a computer game with no emotion involved, I think it's a no brainer. IMO griff is easier to cover than a possible Patton is.

 

[TBOW]

Gws just don't need guys like wallis and smith. Roughead, talia and dahlhous are the 3 that stand out for me as players they'd covet. Roughead and talia obviously cover their key defence posts and their forward 50m pressure and crumbing around cameron/Patton is just awful. Cameron and Boyd playing deep, Tomlinson playing high bald forward and dal/Devon smith at their feet is a great set up.

So who do we want to give up?

GWS passed over Talia based on his poor disposal & unfortunately that hasn't improved much.
Roughie is too big a structural loss.
Dalhaus is too big a spiritual loss.

I reckon JJ is one they would be interested in as a halfback dasher. Whether he would move is another matter.

Maybe we look at something like trading Smith to Essendon & getting Hooker to GWS?