Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 5 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[doggies ftw]

I really don't get the Dees interest in Grundy. They need a real key forward not another ruck. I don't think he helps them much at all

Agree, happy for them to lock up 1mil a year tbh, geez there can’t be much left there with their recent signings. Would firmly knock them out of any rumoured Naughty chase

 

[Dogs Rule]

No it hasn't yet, but people on this board are already making their minds up.
My job involves safety investigations, so quite different from this investigation.
But once a incident is reported, you perform your initial investigation with the evidence and facts available.
You produce a preliminary investigation.
But that is all it is, its not till you get facts from subject matter expects, corroborate evidence and statements from other witnesses, and then produce a final investigation.
So this abc investigation is just at the preliminary stage.

Good points, but just trying to imagine a scenario any player or person would make up such detailed allegations. Not saying they're true or false or whatever, just saying it's difficult to imagine someone making it up.

 

[bresker]

No it hasn't yet, but people on this board are already making their minds up.
My job involves safety investigations, so quite different from this investigation.
But once a incident is reported, you perform your initial investigation with the evidence and facts available.
You produce a preliminary investigation.
But that is all it is, its not till you get facts from subject matter expects, corroborate evidence and statements from other witnesses, and then produce a final investigation.
So this abc investigation is just at the preliminary stage.

It’s not an ABC investigation. The ABC are reporting on an extensive external review authorised by Hawthorn. Players have spoken separately to an ABC journalist , but apparently what they told him is no different to what ended up in the review.

 

[Ash1337]

SO........... does all this mean the junkies may be in position to get "their man" Clarko if he doesn't start his role at North

Will be a tough choice for them though.

You can imagine the discussions at board level, do we go with James or Alister?

Why would Essendon with their own problems look to add on to that. Especially with their indigenous roots.

 

[immortalmike]

This - I say “ the ABC isn’t perfect”, you hear “ I love Rupert Murdoch” reminds me of the Great Cocktail dress debacle of 2012.
Wife says “ does my bum look big in this?”
Me : “ No, not that big”

Oh the humanity.

The world is different now.
If my girl asks if her bum looks big in something, anything but the affirmative would be met with disappointment.

 

[Mofra]

No it hasn't yet, but people on this board are already making their minds up.
My job involves safety investigations, so quite different from this investigation.
But once a incident is reported, you perform your initial investigation with the evidence and facts available.
You produce a preliminary investigation.
But that is all it is, its not till you get facts from subject matter expects, corroborate evidence and statements from other witnesses, and then produce a final investigation.
So this abc investigation is just at the preliminary stage.

I also have investigation experience, which is moot as the ABC didn't run an investigation. This isn't a preliminary investigation report.

The ABC did however provide details on an external review conducted on the Hawthorn Football club that demonstrates significant problems during the Clarkson era. What I would suggest is at question is the severity of the issue, not whether there is an issue or not.

One person is an allegation, two an issue, three or more potentially systemic. Even Luke Hodge's comments today suggest there is some veracity to the claims, ditto Clarkson and Fagan's refusal to provide any statement prior to the article going public.

 

[0utsider]

Unless we’re recruiting Piers Morgan can we give the journalistic integrity chat a ****ing rest?

 

[bobs head soup]

I really don't get the Dees interest in Grundy. They need a real key forward not another ruck. I don't think he helps them much at all

Gawn is 31 next year and looked pretty beat up at times this year and Jackson has requested a trade out. I'd be looking at Rucks if I were them

 

[El Rancho]

People on here yesterday were saying Sammy P and a few others were on their way or up on the GC for meetings.

They have a whole bunch of first and second round selected players on their list, who surely would be screaming out for game time.

Anyone have an idea who/what we are interested in?

 

[Mofra]

Gawn is 31 next year and looked pretty beat up at times this year and Jackson has requested a trade out. I'd be looking at Rucks if I were them

They did seem to have a plan to rest Gawn forward a bit more this year to prolong his career. I assume that's part of their thinking.
WCE traditionally (at least under Simpson) play two rucks too.

TBH Ilike the idea of a ruck/forward as reducing Timmy's ruck time but just a couple of minutes per quarter keeps him 'fresher' and allows him to run off opposition rucks and use his skills as a big man, which really is his forte.
The more I think about it, the more I rue not being able to lure Soldo across last year and if Lobb isn't coming to us I'd love to have another crack.

 

[LittleG]

The world is different now.
If my girl asks if her bum looks big in something, anything but the affirmative would be met with disappointment.

Really? I use the:
“Maybe…. take it off and I will check.”

 

[Lex22]

They did seem to have a plan to rest Gawn forward a bit more this year to prolong his career. I assume that's part of their thinking.
WCE traditionally (at least under Simpson) play two rucks too.

TBH Ilike the idea of a ruck/forward as reducing Timmy's ruck time but just a couple of minutes per quarter keeps him 'fresher' and allows him to run off opposition rucks and use his skills as a big man, which really is his forte.
The more I think about it, the more I rue not being able to lure Soldo across last year and if Lobb isn't coming to us I'd love to have another crack.

Is it the 600k a year that’s turning us off Meek?

Not sure on what Soldo would cost?

 

[Mofra]

Is it the 600k a year that’s turning us off Meek?

Not sure on what Soldo would cost?

I think Meek has shown little forward craft and I really think that's a sticking point on anyone we'd target. We want a no 2 ruck / forward who can ruck.
Not saying I particularly agree but that seems to be what the club targets in a ruck.

I assume a 2nd rounder for Soldo and given pursuit Hopper and Taranto Richmond have to be tight for cap & draft capital so would probably consider it. Richmond ITKs suggest if Chol didn't go to the Suns, Soldo would have been let go

 

[immortalmike]

Really? I use the:
“Maybe…. take it off and I will check.”

Unabashedly stealing this.

 

[Lex22]

I think Meek has shown little forward craft and I really think that's a sticking point on anyone we'd target. We want a no 2 ruck / forward who can ruck.
Not saying I particularly agree but that seems to be what the club targets in a ruck.

I assume a 2nd rounder for Soldo and given pursuit Hopper and Taranto Richmond have to be tight for cap & draft capital so would probably consider it. Richmond ITKs suggest if Chol didn't go to the Suns, Soldo would have been let go

Yeah, we’re definitely fussy with rucks and very keen on a Lobb/Darcy succession plan for that dual-role reasoning.

It’s pretty narrow minded if it doesn’t all play out like above. Soldo and Meek are both good rucks, personally I’d get either (at the right price) if Lobb fell through.

 

[doggie dog]

Good points, but just trying to imagine a scenario any player or person would make up such detailed allegations. Not saying they're true or false or whatever, just saying it's difficult to imagine someone making it up.

So player A has made a accusation against 2 very highly regarded long term coaches.
I can't imagine how bad if proven what player A had to go through.
And if the facts back up players A statement, clarko and Fagan have a lot to answer for.
On the other side of the coin is the fantastic lies case involving Duke lacrosse team dissects how the media coverage and the prosecutorial misconduct had a profound effect on the families of the men accused.

The Duke lacrosse case's long shadow of doubt

Ten years after the Duke lacrosse scandal, accusations of sexual assault at Yale illustrate a destructive legacy: making it acceptable to dismiss the accusers.

www.espn.com

 

[doggie dog]

It’s not an ABC investigation. The ABC are reporting on an extensive external review authorised by Hawthorn. Players have spoken separately to an ABC journalist , but apparently what they told him is no different to what ended up in the review.

I'm sorry i must have missed that report, I've only seen the report into Hawthorne earlier on this year for racism.
only today Luke Hodge stated "I’ve only had (the story) for about an hour. I’m still a bit unsure of my thought process. It’s a shock to the system reading some of the things that were alleged in that"

So the captain or the senior leadership group had not been interview yet

 

[doggies ftw]

I think Meek has shown little forward craft and I really think that's a sticking point on anyone we'd target. We want a no 2 ruck / forward who can ruck.
Not saying I particularly agree but that seems to be what the club targets in a ruck.

I assume a 2nd rounder for Soldo and given pursuit Hopper and Taranto Richmond have to be tight for cap & draft capital so would probably consider it. Richmond ITKs suggest if Chol didn't go to the Suns, Soldo would have been let go

I wouldn’t want Soldo in our forward line, he struggles big time there and that’s what’s seen him out of the team this year as Nank is very much a 90% game time ruck.

I don’t think anyone disagrees that a forward who can chop out in the ruck is a good plan, but the problem is putting all our eggs in this magical basket which barely even exists. Lobb is basically one of the only good forwards in the league who is more than serviceable in the ruck, and even he is only serviceable at both positions for the most part.

Most clubs either cop a loss up forward by playing a 2nd ruckman whose a bit shit up there or they cop a loss in the ruck by having a forward who can give a shit chop out. The problem with us is English hasn’t exactly been great in the ruck itself either, so we’ve practically completely lost the ruck all game because our own ruckman is only serviceable in the ruck himself and then the part timer comes in who is even shitter.

Most clubs that go with the part timer method have dominant rucks who can dominate for 80% of the game and only need to cover 10-20% of the game. We’re basically covering our ruckmans ass for 100% of every game.

Therein lies the issue. Now when we’re using someone like Cordy who is both shit in the ruck and shit in the forward line, it just seems crazy to not sacrifice whatever little upside he has up forward to at least gain the positive of a proper ruckman chopping out like Sweet?

Again if this perfect plan of English and a good second ruckman/forward works out then brilliant, but it hasn’t yet, and the frustrations have been around our complete inability to be flexible. It hasn’t worked out how we’ve liked and we just will not try other options, sure it might not be the best, most ideal situation but why not try a ruckman in the ruck and English forward/ruck (even if he’s better in the middle) just as an example.

The whole inflexibility around needing to find this perfect player or nup no one else is good enough - that’s the issue, and it has severely hurt us across several years

 

[Dog 36]

Gawn is 31 next year and looked pretty beat up at times this year and Jackson has requested a trade out. I'd be looking at Rucks if I were them

yep to feed their midfield like we should be feeding our midfield

 

[Ash1337]

yep to feed their midfield like we should be feeding our midfield

I think the club believes English will get to a state where he'll be a dominate ruck. He has shown good strides the last 2 years of accomplishing that. I think next year barring that the dogs can get a good backup fwd/ruck that he'll finally get there.

 

[El Rancho]

I wouldn’t want Soldo in our forward line, he struggles big time there and that’s what’s seen him out of the team this year as Nank is very much a 90% game time ruck.

I don’t think anyone disagrees that a forward who can chop out in the ruck is a good plan, but the problem is putting all our eggs in this magical basket which barely even exists. Lobb is basically one of the only good forwards in the league who is more than serviceable in the ruck, and even he is only serviceable at both positions for the most part.

Most clubs either cop a loss up forward by playing a 2nd ruckman whose a bit s**t up there or they cop a loss in the ruck by having a forward who can give a s**t chop out. The problem with us is English hasn’t exactly been great in the ruck itself either, so we’ve practically completely lost the ruck all game because our own ruckman is only serviceable in the ruck himself and then the part timer comes in who is even shitter.

Most clubs that go with the part timer method have dominant rucks who can dominate for 80% of the game and only need to cover 10-20% of the game. We’re basically covering our ruckmans ass for 100% of every game.

Therein lies the issue. Now when we’re using someone like Cordy who is both s**t in the ruck and s**t in the forward line, it just seems crazy to not sacrifice whatever little upside he has up forward to at least gain the positive of a proper ruckman chopping out like Sweet?

Again if this perfect plan of English and a good second ruckman/forward works out then brilliant, but it hasn’t yet, and the frustrations have been around our complete inability to be flexible. It hasn’t worked out how we’ve liked and we just will not try other options, sure it might not be the best, most ideal situation but why not try a ruckman in the ruck and English forward/ruck (even if he’s better in the middle) just as an example.

The whole inflexibility around needing to find this perfect player or nup no one else is good enough - that’s the issue, and it has severely hurt us across several years

Agree, using English as the ruck/fwd option and getting in a #1 ruck is definitely worth pursuing.

Haven't seen enough of Sweet at the level to say if he'd make it or not. Grundy would be awesome, but I understand the hesitance.

 

[Jen Geoffings]

This - I say “ the ABC isn’t perfect”, you hear “ I love Rupert Murdoch” reminds me of the Great Cocktail dress debacle of 2012.
Wife says “ does my bum look big in this?”
Me : “ No, not that big”

Oh the humanity.

In answer to this very same question my husband replied “Do you mean the dress, or the room?”

Oh the humanity indeed

 

[cecil]

Gee it'd be nice if Dunkley choses GC instead (hello pick 7) and Logue backs out of North

 

[Al dente]

Geeez I’d love a seperate thread for all the Dunkley chat. He’s no longer contracted, wants to leave so we move on. Makes no difference the reason.
As for the Treloar quips, he seems to love the club and comes across as a super loyal player. He was played out of position often but busted his guts for us. Maybe Dunks leaving opens up more midfield minutes. He’s a class act.

Treloar was immense in 2021, won us multiple games and turned the grandfinal around in the second quarter, i hope we use him properly next year

 

[HK_Bulldog]

Agree, happy for them to lock up 1mil a year tbh, geez there can’t be much left there with their recent signings. Would firmly knock them out of any rumoured Naughty chase

Melbourne and Pies will come hard for Marra and Naughton next year I think. Our planning on how them, Lobb, Darcy and Bruce work together is critical in them staying imo.