Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 5 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Look, I think a KPD is a need as well and would be chasing one too. To contend we need a KPD but I don't think we need that alone. If our cap is not in a position to do both, then that's an indictment on the current list build and we need to restructure the list somewhat to allow for it. Frankly, if that is the case, I think we will rue prioritising the (presumably large) signings of both Daniel and Dale, but that's just a personal opinion.

To play devil's advocate, though: our KPDs were bad last night, but we had control of the game in the forward half and just could not convert. We had a huge amount more clearances, won contested ball AND had more tackles, culminating in a large chunk more inside 50s for many less scoring shots. We need to improve our net score, which can be done in two ways: defending their entries better, or boosting our own conversion rate. If we had made the most of our entries last night, they would have had less opportunities to rebound the ball. It's too simplistic to say that they scored too easily.

 

[lachy]

Look, I think a KPD is a need as well and would be chasing one too. To contend we need a KPD but I don't think we need that alone. If our cap is not in a position to do both, then that's an indictment on the current list build and we need to restructure the list somewhat to allow for it. Frankly, if that is the case, I think we will rue prioritising the (presumably large) signings of both Daniel and Dale, but that's just a personal opinion.

To play devil's advocate, though: our KPDs were bad last night, but we had control of the game in the forward half and just could not convert. We had a huge amount more clearances, won contested ball AND had more tackles, culminating in a large chunk more inside 50s for many less scoring shots. We need to improve our net score, which can be done in two ways: defending their entries better, or boosting our own conversion rate. If we had made the most of our entries last night, they would have had less opportunities to rebound the ball. It's too simplistic to say that they scored too easily.

You are correct that we need to improve our net score, but to be a genuine contender we need to do both of which you suggest not just one of them. One is system and skill one is a clear lack of quality in a particular area of the ground

 

[CaptainMurphy]

How would we all feel if we turned Dunkley into Busslinger?

 

[TedDougChris]

Was at the game last night and we had zero forward structure at all - so when scoreboard pressure came we couldn’t respond. Having everyone run back to put defensive pressure on is nice except for when we try to bring the ball back our way and there are 4 opposing players stopping us

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

You are correct that we need to improve our net score, but to be a genuine contender we need to do both of which you suggest not just one of them. One is system and skill one is a clear lack of quality in a particular area of the ground

I agree with your first sentence but don't fully agree with the second - I think the reality is more complex. Our forward line stinks because of structure, yes, skill entering the 50, definitely, but also because of a lack of quality imo. Schache is up to it once every three games, JUH is building but is barely AFL quality at best, Weightman is playing injured because the cupboard is bare. There is a lack of quality in D50, particularly for height, but our defensive woes are also a result of (1) poor ball use inside 50, with shallow entries and intercepts that leave us vulnerable on the counter; and (2) absolutely horrific on-ball defence that is clearly structural. I don't think it's fair to say that our personnel woes are the only reason our defence is bad and structure/skill is the only reason our forward line struggles.

 

[Golden_6]

How would we all feel if we turned Dunkley into Busslinger?

The issue is we need a KPD now. A draftee, and especially a KPD draftee wouldn’t be expected to genuinely contribute for years.

Losing Dunkley for a young unproven guy makes our list worse in the next 2-3 years rather than better.

 

[BarryMorgan]

Wonder what Kieran Collins

Kieran Collins

Age

28

Ht

194cm

Wt

100kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

4.0

1star

K

4.0

2star

HB

0.0

1star

M

2.0

2star

T

1.0

3star

MG

116.0

2star

No current season stats available

D

4.0

1star

K

4.0

2star

HB

0.0

1star

M

2.0

3star

T

1.0

3star

MG

116.0

2star

is up to…

 

[TommyD13]

Not a fan of getting Lobb. Not sure what he adds when we already have English, Naughton, Ugle-Hagan, Darcy, Bruce and even Khamis developing in that area of the ground. All he does is clog up the production line. Whatever salary and picks we give up for him would be much better suited going into a key defender, unless we plan on one of Naughton or Darcy going back. Which I don't feel is the best idea either.

 

[DueWest]

Issue is we don’t just need one KPD. We almost need an entire new backline.
Keath looks like he’s about to fall off a cliff.
I don’t care what anyone says, Gardner is below average and would be in the bottom handful of KPDs across the league.
O’Brien has been below average and has little defensive instinct

So that’s our KPD stocks. With only Cordy in the cupboard and Buku who I would honestly start playing as at least he can defend a 1 on 1.

Then we have no mid sized defenders of any quality - Crozier has also dropped off significantly and can’t stick tackles.

We only have Duryea as a lockdown small defender who will be 32. Richards can play that role but is better in a attacking role.

Our backline is then rounded out by Dale and Daniel who are very poor 1 on 1 defenders.

Almost the entire backline needs to rebuilt which can’t happen in one off season.

From what I understand O’Brien was brought in as an intercept defender, ie Wood replacement, he is clearly not this at all

Last nights game pretty much showed how exposed we are relying on Gardiner as a key back

Keath is a good player, the only AFL level key back we have on our list but he needs support

Gardiner and OBrien are not the answer and we will continue to be monstered against better sides

 

[Walsh Bay]

Who is actually, properly, effectively fit right now? Not quietly carrying an injury, in good nick?

Hunter has no reason not to be. Macrae seems durable. Williams, Dale, Ugle-Hagan, Gards maybe?

Our conditioning has needed a royal commission for the last five years. We can't know the potential of our list if we're playing banged-up.

 

[immortalmike]

Gee this board overrates Dunkley.
We get a pick and a good KPD out of him I'm more than satisfied.
He's Callan Ward

8

Callan Ward

Age

35

Ht

187cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

22.8

5star

K

11.2

4star

HB

11.5

5star

M

3.8

4star

T

4.3

5star

CL

5.4

5star

D

17.8

4star

K

9.0

4star

HB

8.8

4star

M

2.3

2star

T

2.3

3star

CL

3.3

4star

D

10.0

3star

K

4.4

2star

HB

5.6

4star

M

3.0

3star

T

1.8

4star

with worse disposal. Solid but no star. Good citizen, with a nice career ahead but nothing more.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

From what I understand O’Brien was brought in as an intercept defender, ie Wood replacement, he is clearly not this at all

I've harped on this a few times, but O'Brien can be an intercept defender. The problem is that our system does not generate intercept marking opportunities often enough. Our defenders get isolated because there is so little pressure on the ball carrier. Our zone breaks down way too easily.

 

[doggiesin08]

The issue is we need a KPD now. A draftee, and especially a KPD draftee wouldn’t be expected to genuinely contribute for years.

Losing Dunkley for a young unproven guy makes our list worse in the next 2-3 years rather than better.

He wouldn't take the monsters yet but Busslinger would be playing for us now over O'Brien.

 

[Foxman98]

Not a fan of getting Lobb. Not sure what he adds when we already have English, Naughton, Ugle-Hagan, Darcy, Bruce and even Khamis developing in that area of the ground. All he does is clog up the production line. Whatever salary and picks we give up for him would be much better suited going into a key defender, unless we plan on one of Naughton or Darcy going back. Which I don't feel is the best idea either.

He’d be our second highest goal kicker and gives us a genuine forward who can genuinely chop out in the ruck.

 

[adogsfan5]

I've harped on this a few times, but O'Brien can be an intercept defender. The problem is that our system does not generate intercept marking opportunities often enough. Our defenders get isolated because there is so little pressure on the ball carrier. Our zone breaks down way too easily.

THIS.

 

[BIG_BONTS]

We’re lacking 3 quality talls who can take a mark. Get Walker, Lobb and a big KPD in our side. Send Naughto 50/50 fwd/back and we have a flag in ‘23 while Darcy and JUH are still developing.

 

[_Mike_]

Crazy talk about the KPD situation when we can put Naughton at CHB until we get key players back.

 

[dergert]

Crazy talk about the KPD situation when we can put Naughton at CHB until we get key players back.

Since our year is shot I wouldn't be against this.

Teach our mids and defence not to bomb it on Naughton's head each into entry.

 

[Foxman98]

You guys know Naughton is 3rd in the Coleman right? Carlton are short a defender at the moment and Cornes was laughed at for suggesting to move Curnow back and they have McKay up forward as well we dont

 

[doggies ftw]

Look, I think a KPD is a need as well and would be chasing one too. To contend we need a KPD but I don't think we need that alone. If our cap is not in a position to do both, then that's an indictment on the current list build and we need to restructure the list somewhat to allow for it. Frankly, if that is the case, I think we will rue prioritising the (presumably large) signings of both Daniel and Dale, but that's just a personal opinion.

To play devil's advocate, though: our KPDs were bad last night, but we had control of the game in the forward half and just could not convert. We had a huge amount more clearances, won contested ball AND had more tackles, culminating in a large chunk more inside 50s for many less scoring shots. We need to improve our net score, which can be done in two ways: defending their entries better, or boosting our own conversion rate. If we had made the most of our entries last night, they would have had less opportunities to rebound the ball. It's too simplistic to say that they scored too easily.

I’m not sure just placing another tall in the mix solves our conversion issues though - there’s sooo many more problems than thay

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

I’m not sure just placing another tall in the mix solves our conversion issues though - there’s sooo many more problems than thay

I don't think so either, but likewise I don't think putting one of the KPDs that are possibly on the market (of which, at best, Payne is probably the best player) in our backline solves our defensive woes. Hell, I don't think Weitering would fix them.

 

[doggies ftw]

I don't think so either, but likewise I don't think putting one of the KPDs that are possibly on the market (of which, at best, Payne is probably the best player) in our backline solves our defensive woes. Hell, I don't think Weitering would fix them.

Yeah absolutely, as I said last night you could put Scarlett & Lake back there and they’d play 15m off their opponent and get caught out of position as the ball waltz through the centre of the ground unopposed.

But I guess what I mean is that I believe we can fix our forward line issues with current personnel - Naughty, Bruce, Jamarra, Schache/Darcy whereas yes we have huge defensive issues that need to be solved but even if we do that, the personnel still isn’t good enough - so that’s where our attention should be focussed.

But hey if we can bring in Lobb for 500k and a reasonable deal at the trade table (first rounder off the table) just do it but we need to bring in at least one good defender too

 

[Biggyd81]

I reckon we should have a crack at Lewis Young

33

Lewis Young

Age

27

Ht

202cm

Wt

99kg

Pos.

D/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.6

3star

K

7.5

3star

HB

4.1

3star

M

4.4

4star

T

1.6

4star

MG

197.9

3star

D

4.0

1star

K

3.0

1star

HB

1.0

1star

M

3.0

3star

T

0.0

1star

MG

26.0

1star

D

14.4

4star

K

8.2

4star

HB

6.2

4star

M

6.4

5star

T

2.0

4star

MG

181.6

3star

...makes me sick

 

[doggies ftw]

I reckon we should have a crack at Lewis Young...makes me sick

He’s no superstar but he’d absolutey be playing better than O’Brien in his position - what a monumental **** up lmao

Obviously no one watched any of Obriens career before he came here expecting him to solve any issues - he has had an awful career besides the odd good mark. Genuinely hopeless

 

[BrunswickDog]

Just reading a few comments here, but our key defenders were not why we lost last night. From their key forwards that usually cut us up, they scored 3 goals - and one was from hipwood pushing his defender into the ump to get free.

Yes our defenders struggle one on one, but gardner was not the reason for our loss.

Dale gave up two goals being totally unaccountable and scott gave up 4 trying to play on an AA small forward.

The way I saw it was that we couldn't generate shots from 20m to 40m out, we were either kicking to tagets at 50m or too deep, making it easier for the lions to shut down space deep and repel (the stats probably won't supoort this, but to my eye that was it). When we did get those 20m to 30m shit, we were reasonably effective.

Once mcinerney got on top in the ruck and there being no structure in the forward line, we were done.