Strategy Trade and List Management Thread Part 8 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[_Mike_]

Opposition supporters coming to troll , you have been warned

 

[TiAn_]

I tend to agree. But with so many clubs at the bottom end with loads of cap space, and a few at the top “managing” their cap very well, there will always be someone willing to overpay. At some point we’re going to have to overpay for the right player or more often than not miss out.

I think it’s fraught though with the offers being so public now, by overpaying for C graders and paying them more than your established players you risk what is happening to the Saints with Wilkie and others cracking the shits.

No doubt Tom Boyd would have caused a bit of angst with some of our players way back, but he at least was a #1 draft pick with huge potential. Similar bringing in a A grader. Different story to overpaying for depth.

 

[Dogs Rule]

I think it’s fraught though with the offers being so public now, by overpaying for C graders and paying them more than your established players you risk what is happening to the Saints with Wilkie and others cracking the shits.

No doubt Tom Boyd would have caused a bit of angst with some of our players way back, but he at least was a #1 draft pick with huge potential. Similar bringing in a A grader. Different story to overpaying for depth.

Which of De Koning, Ryan, Silvagni and Aleer and suddenly rocketing St Kilda into finals let alone premiership contention?

They've overpaid massively for a group that may, if they're lucky, see them scrape into the eight. The fire sale at the other end will be soooo good.

 

[Mojorisin]

I tend to agree. But with so many clubs at the bottom end with loads of cap space, and a few at the top “managing” their cap very well, there will always be someone willing to overpay. At some point we’re going to have to overpay for the right player or more often than not miss out.

Im happy to over pay but it needs to be for the right player, I was more then happy offering Wilkie 1.4M for example. I'm even happy for an increased offer for Butts but not for an injury prone Jsos or a 27Y/O Tylar Young who can't nail down a best 23 spot in the tigers team.

 

[Dogs54]

I just dont see us succeeding with a forward line of Darcy, Naughton and Croft. When is the last time a team won a flag with 3 tall forwards? One of them has to go back and in turn would solve our defensive issues.

I see it as a massive bonus to have three mobile key forwards. Imagine the headaches it causes for opposition backlines.

Look at Hawthorn, Adelaide, Fremantle they all run three KPF's and the future trend for Brisbane once they gain Oscar Allen.

 

[adogsfan5]

If we can still get through this trade period with Budarick, a key back and potentially Butters, I’ll be one very happy man.

 

[TiAn_]

Which of De Koning, Ryan, Silvagni and Aleer and suddenly rocketing St Kilda into finals let alone premiership contention?

They've overpaid massively for a group that may, if they're lucky, see them scrape into the eight. The fire sale at the other end will be soooo good.

DeKonning could be elite but they already had Marshall who is pretty good, so the biggest chunk of dollars have gone to a minor upgrade to the ruck position.

 

[F6Typhoon]

Id try and pry a superstar mid out (butters) and push Bont into the backline. I know it’s an extremely out there move but if we can’t land the A grade defenders we need another way to steady this defensive unit.

Shades of EJ having Bont at CHB!

 

[Claythesmiths]

Can’t fault the club here, went hard at a gun contracted player and caused a real stir.

I would seriously be considering a big play for Butters this year at this point.

I think we absolutely can and should be faulting the club if we come out of this trade window with no key back who is going to slot into our 22. Acting like we’ve won because we forced the Saints to pay a little extra for Wilkie while they’ve managed to get commitments from another two key defenders while holding onto AA-caliber Wilkie seems foolish to me. The club must have known all year that getting in a key back would be the highest priority this off-season and yet we’re approaching the start of the window and so far all we know is Wilkie is definitely not happening and there’s no word whatsoever about Butts.

 

[CarnTheScray]

Seriously you have VDM in the best 23? If he is truly in our best line up then we have no hope of achieving anything.

I made a pledge a few months ago to refrain from talking about McNeil, but if he and VDM are automatic selections in the team in round one, I’m not going.

 

[Shacf501]

I made a pledge a few months ago to refrain from talking about McNeil, but if he and VDM are automatic selections in the team in round one, I’m not going.

yep, as childish as it sounds I'm very much on the same page

 

[CarnTheScray]

Man, we are so trash at recruiting players. Honestly give the gig to someone else to try, Bevo, Power and whoever else is involved at the moment are farking useless at it.

Half agree. We have been sitting on our butts for a few years reluctant to part with money and higher picks…and for what?

I know our hands were tied in the national draft with Mr Nightclub and Darcy. We still had years outside of then to make moves. It didn’t have to be two first rounders like Melbourne did each year for Lever/May, but we didn’t seem to do anything other than part with picks in the 30s-50s.

I’ve also seen THAT many half decent rucks/defenders/ physical players in the last ten years play for our VFL or a nearby VFL, we never look at them, then they eventually end up at another AFL club.

 

[DiamondDogs8]

I think we absolutely can and should be faulting the club if we come out of this trade window with no key back who is going to slot into our 22. Acting like we’ve won because we forced the Saints to pay a little extra for Wilkie while they’ve managed to get commitments from another two key defenders while holding onto AA-caliber Wilkie seems foolish to me. The club must have known all year that getting in a key back would be the highest priority this off-season and yet we’re approaching the start of the window and so far all we know is Wilkie is definitely not happening and there’s no word whatsoever about Butts.

Wilkie, a contracted AA and future captain, was never going to be an easy deal to get done

It was pretty consensus on here that matching the Saints bid for Silvagni would have been the wrong call

Don’t even get me started on what they’re paying Aleer, I’m not upset about and missing out on either of them

I’m sure we will pivot to other options when the trade period rolls around, but arguably more important than bringing in a key defender is changing how we defend the ground.

Adding a key defender to play in this current system is futile if we are unwilling to change the way opposing teams go from end to end in transition and prevent repeat entries

 

[Foxman98]

I just dont see us succeeding with a forward line of Darcy, Naughton and Croft. When is the last time a team won a flag with 3 tall forwards? One of them has to go back and in turn would solve our defensive issues.

Saturday Brisbane played 2 KPF + a Ruck so even worse,

Logan Morris Ty Gallop Oscar McInerney

 

[Dogs Rule]

I think we absolutely can and should be faulting the club if we come out of this trade window with no key back who is going to slot into our 22. Acting like we’ve won because we forced the Saints to pay a little extra for Wilkie while they’ve managed to get commitments from another two key defenders while holding onto AA-caliber Wilkie seems foolish to me. The club must have known all year that getting in a key back would be the highest priority this off-season and yet we’re approaching the start of the window and so far all we know is Wilkie is definitely not happening and there’s no word whatsoever about Butts.

Ultimately, Wilkie is contracted. If he was uncontracted or chose another club other than the club he's contracted to over us then you have a point. It was always a long shot.

Having said that, I'm all in for Butts, Butters and Budarick. Get them all.

 

[redmania]

I made a pledge a few months ago to refrain from talking about McNeil, but if he and VDM are automatic selections in the team in round one, I’m not going.

I was in a Cafe in March queing for a coffee. Mate asks me about the doggies and I go on a minute rant about our small forwards and some of the easy kicks missed in finals by McNeil etc. Said our smalls need improving. Turn around and McNeil and his mrs are just staring at me. I turned around like a ghost and my mate says he's behind us isn't he....****

 

[Foxman98]

If Flanders nominates the Saints or Bombers it is best case scenario for us to trade JUH,

They would then have either pick 5 or 7 + 6/13/16

They only need points as they pretty much only have list spaces for their academy players 2 of which will be top 5 making their picks redundant give them JUH (pay 100% of his salary) + 29 + whatever we get for Buku

This draft is apparently dog shit so no one else is coming to trade up in fact everyone wants to trade out,

Take 2 of Taylor/Farrow/Dovaston with Darcy and its a nice draft haul

Buderick hopefully to replace Doc preseaons into Sellwood as well and go from there

 

[JohnnySteel]

If Flanders nominates the Saints or Bombers it is best case scenario for us to trade JUH,

They would then have either pick 5 or 7 + 6/13/16

They only need points as they pretty much only have list spaces for their academy players 2 of which will be top 5 making their picks redundant give them JUH (pay 100% of his salary) + 29 + whatever we get for Buku

This draft is apparently dog shit so no one else is coming to trade up in fact everyone wants to trade out,

Take 2 of Taylor/Farrow/Dovaston with Darcy and its a nice draft haul

Buderick hopefully to replace Doc preseaons into Sellwood as well and go from there

I’d absolutely be keen for two picks inside the top 20. There’s a few players that meet our needs that unless we can entice butters this season we should be taking our picks to the draft and trying to load up on talent once again.

 

[Mojorisin]

If Flanders nominates the Saints or Bombers it is best case scenario for us to trade JUH,

They would then have either pick 5 or 7 + 6/13/16

They only need points as they pretty much only have list spaces for their academy players 2 of which will be top 5 making their picks redundant give them JUH (pay 100% of his salary) + 29 + whatever we get for Buku

This draft is apparently dog shit so no one else is coming to trade up in fact everyone wants to trade out,

Take 2 of Taylor/Farrow/Dovaston with Darcy and its a nice draft haul

Buderick hopefully to replace Doc preseaons into Sellwood as well and go from there

I actually don't mind this draft. Especially that 10-30 range.
The biggest issue is there is no clear cut number 1 pick and those in the top 10 that aren't club tied fit somewhere into the first round of years past.
From 10-30 is very even though and all likely ranked very differently by clubs, Absolutely a spot I'd be targeting live trading into for a slider.
The second issue is after about 30 things drop off heavily, having players with question marks and more club tied. I expect a fair few mature agers to be picked up in the later part of the draft even with the MSD taking alot off the table.

The third reason I think this draft is getting overlooked is the strength of next years draft, although alot are again club tied. The 2026 draft at this early stage looks like it will stack up with the top 2 or 3 of the last 15 crops.

 

[stefoid]

Id prefer Butters and some coaching tweaks to Wilkie -> that would improve our performance more.

 

[goodcop badcop]

Wilkie, a contracted AA and future captain, was never going to be an easy deal to get done

It was pretty consensus on here that matching the Saints bid for Silvagni would have been the wrong call

Don’t even get me started on what they’re paying Aleer, I’m not upset about and missing out on either of them

I’m sure we will pivot to other options when the trade period rolls around, but arguably more important than bringing in a key defender is changing how we defend the ground.

Adding a key defender to play in this current system is futile if we are unwilling to change the way opposing teams go from end to end in transition and prevent repeat entries

I agree on Silvagni and Aleer, but this has been going on for a number of years now. Seems like nearly every year we are in the market for a key back and we seem to miss out consistently.

People have applauded our aggressiveness, but are we still anywhere near aggressive and ruthless enough? Looking at club like Hawthorn, they went in the market wanting a key back and ended up getting two. One of them we were highly interested in, we just didn't want to pay as much by all reports. They go into this trade period needing a mid and will probably get an in contract gun mid.

We go into the trade period "aggressively" looking for a key back and it's not even looking likely we end up with a B grader in Butts.

 

[JohnnySteel]

Id prefer Butters and some coaching tweaks to Wilkie -> that would improve our performance more.

Butters, Bont, Richards, Libba, Treloar, Freijah, Kennedy. That’s one hell of a midfield. Good mix of grunt & class.

Alittle worried that there ain’t much talk at this stage about Butters moving.

 

[JTCWBFC]

I’d put my money on the only trade being Buderick at this point with the only other things being JUH leaving for peanuts.

Other than that we’ll go to the draft.

 

[MaxiBont]

I agree on Silvagni and Aleer, but this has been going on for a number of years now. Seems like nearly every year we are in the market for a key back and we seem to miss out consistently.

People have applauded our aggressiveness, but are we still anywhere near aggressive and ruthless enough? Looking at club like Hawthorn, they went in the market wanting a key back and ended up getting two. One of them we were highly interested in, we just didn't want to pay as much by all reports. They go into this trade period needing a mid and will probably get an in contract gun mid.

We go into the trade period "aggressively" looking for a key back and it's not even looking likely we end up with a B grader in Butts.

You can’t kidnap the players and make them nominate you.

Not sure how much more ruthless we could have been offering a 4.5 million contract to a 30 year old.

Outside of offering a competitive contract and pitching to the player there’s not a whole lot more you can do if they don’t want to nominate.

 

[Foxman98]

I’d put my money on the only trade being Buderick at this point with the only other things being JUH leaving for peanuts.

Other than that we’ll go to the draft.

He won't leave for peanuts,

We either get something for him or pay him out

 

[El Rancho]

He won't leave for peanuts,

We either get something for him or pay him out

Why not take the peanuts rather than pay him out and get nothing? At least we still have the peanuts.

If all we get is a late round pick, I'd be hoping GC would take the entire salary which then means we can look at adjusting existing contracts and front load a few players now. This would mean we would have a war chest going into trying to get butters next year.