Recruiting Trade & Free Agency IV - hypotheticals etc. (Continued in Part V)

[citizen-erased]

I agree to an extent however I think inside bulls are easier to find and develop compared to a classy Kelly type
Clarke and begley both have 'bullish potential'

particularly Begley.
Wouldn't mind unleashing him after 3-4 games in the middle in the VFL.
if he's ready for the Saints game, could be handy.

 

[eth-dog]

I could see Ambrose playing a Stratton role and matching small fwds for pace and then dominating them in the air.

Like this idea in particular. We know that Hurley, Brown and Hartley can cover talls effectively still.

 

[WEEVZ]

Why would Preuss leave? Contracted, 10 year player for North who are more likely to trade Goldstein to a Bulldogs or Geelong.

Cats have zero currency as far as picks are concerned though, unless they offer up Stanley or something but I doubt North would be interested in another ruck.

 

[eth-dog]

Cats have zero currency as far as picks are concerned though, unless they offer up Stanley or something but I doubt North would be interested in another ruck.

They can still offer next year's first.

 

[parishfanclub]

I'll have one Harley Balic and one Jacob Hopper please.

 

[WEEVZ]

Josh Kelly is the exact player that would compliment our team
Hooper would be handy but the player we pick with our first rounder eg cerra, Dow, OBrien could be just as good

We'd have to give up our first to get him though so that argument is kind of null and void. I'd argue we need to looking at contested ball-winners more than guys that are exclusively outside mids, especially given the guys we are about to lose over the next 2 years or so. He'd certainly be what we need if we'd already filled those voids but we haven't just yet I don't think.

 

[WEEVZ]

Inside bull number 1 priority IMO, closely followed by a classy outside/inside mid, and then a lockdown defender to replace baguely

Inside mid, key forward, ruckman, then maybe look at outside mids and half-backs.

 

[scanlon]

Inside mid, key forward, ruckman, then maybe look at outside mids and half-backs.

I'm talking this trade period. We have hooksy, daniher, stewart, francis who will all be able to provide an option as a key forward. Forgot to include ruckman, definitely a need however I reckon draper will be the goods. Still a long time before he comes on though.

 

[Teflon Dons]

We'd have to give up our first to get him though so that argument is kind of null and void. ???

I'd argue we need to looking at contested ball-winners more than guys that are exclusively outside mids, especially given the guys we are about to lose over the next 2 years or so.

I feel like I'm being really repetitive on Kelly. One first round pick for him would be a blatant steal. Even if we were getting a top 5 pick, which isn't seeming likely.

Top 20 in contested and uncontested possession. 5th most disposals and 5th most effective user, (super impressive, would like to know how many other players have ranked top 5 for both simultaneously.)

6th most inside 50s with that lethal boot to maximise damage and cool around goal, he's able to get off the leash so easily because he's not just an inside mid that releases outside runners, he breaks ankles and shakes opponents consistently then releases himself...

Big tank and clearly plays for his teammates, top 20 for tackles PG and 5th in total tackles. From all reports has all the off field intangibles you want in an AFL captain.

Generation player, not a missing piece.

If he hints he might want to be a bomber I'd give a first and whoever they rate more out of Francis/Parish/Laverde/Langford without a second thought, ever. Possibly even 2 of those depending which pair.

 

[Big Fresh]

Josh Kelly is the exact player that would compliment our team
Hooper would be handy but the player we pick with our first rounder eg cerra, Dow, OBrien could be just as good

The extra two years of development and maturity Hopper already has is worth something.

 

[WEEVZ]

They can still offer next year's first.

Can they though?
2015 - Traded their 1st rounder in the Dangerfield trade, and traded their 2016 first to the Blues for Henderson.
2016 - Traded their 2017 first rounder to the Blues as part of the deal for Tuohy.

As part of the AFL's future trading rules, teams must make at least 2 first round selections in a four year period. The Cats have traded away 3 of those first rounders in the space of 2 years.

They literally cannot trade their 2018 first rounder. So unless Steven Motlop or Daniel Menzel join new clubs on contracts sizeable enough to earn the Cats first round compensation they'll be in breach of the future pick trading rules. Their only other alternative is to put a someone on the table that they may not want to. So that could be something like say Mitch Duncan and a 2nd or 3rd for somebodies 1st.

 

[WEEVZ]

I feel like I'm being really repetitive on Kelly. One first round pick for him would be a blatant steal. Even if we were getting a top 5 pick, which isn't seeming likely.

Top 20 in contested and uncontested possession. 5th most disposals and 5th most effective user, (super impressive, would like to know how many other players have ranked top 5 for both simultaneously.)

6th most inside 50s with that lethal boot to maximise damage and cool around goal, he's able to get off the leash so easily because he's not just an inside mid that releases outside runners, he breaks ankles and shakes opponents consistently then releases himself...

Big tank and clearly plays for his teammates, top 20 for tackles PG and 5th in total tackles. From all reports has all the off field intangibles you want in an AFL captain.

Generation player, not a missing piece.

If he hints he might want to be a bomber I'd give a first and whoever they rate more out of Francis/Parish/Laverde/Langford without a second thought, ever. Possibly even 2 of those depending which pair.

Not trading away our future for anyone sorry. Maybe Langford but not the other three.

 

[WEEVZ]

I'm talking this trade period. We have hooksy, daniher, stewart, francis who will all be able to provide an option as a key forward. Forgot to include ruckman, definitely a need however I reckon draper will be the goods. Still a long time before he comes on though.

True but Hooker is not a long term option, he's certainly good cover while we try and find someone to fill that void but he's 29 in October he need to find someone now so they're ready to go by the time Hooker hangs it up.

 

[Teflon Dons]

The extra two years of development and maturity Hopper already has is worth something.

I think people are falling in a bit of a trap with Hopper because of how he's built. He's an inside bull no question, he's very one dimensional though. Not a great mark, has a career-high bag of 1 goal. Not the greatest runner outside of the contest. Really good around the ball though, elite at winning it at the contest then releasing to the outside by hand, excellent tackler.

Kennedy on the other hand is a solid contested mark, can go forward and be another option at 188cm with a leap on him. Can kick goals, booted 3 against us last year. Good runner, spreads really well and shakes opponents with his endurance and gets out on his own a fair bit. But on top of that he matches all of hoppers contested work and in some instances is a superior inside midfielder. Also the highest ranked rising star for tackles per game. Somehow still will likely come cheaper than hopper. That's the kind of versatility we need and from what I've read, what dodoro is specifically targeting.



Also fond of Lukas Webb. Some of these comments from the Footscray VFL site make me wonder why he's not getting picked. We need to save this kid badly he's a senior player for sure.

Strong ball winner as usual at this level. 29 touches, six inside-50s.
25 possessions and six tackles.

Huge ball winner, but didn’t always hit the target with his disposals. 10 clearances and seven inside-50s.

Good start, then was superb late when the game needed to be won. 20 possessions and seven clearances. -
Two goals and seven tackles made him dangerous inside 5

Super in midfield. 35 possessions, 10 clearances, seven inside-50s and three goals.

I'll happily have him if they don't want him...

 

[citizen-erased]

I feel like I'm being really repetitive on Kelly. One first round pick for him would be a blatant steal. Even if we were getting a top 5 pick, which isn't seeming likely.

Top 20 in contested and uncontested possession. 5th most disposals and 5th most effective user, (super impressive, would like to know how many other players have ranked top 5 for both simultaneously.)

6th most inside 50s with that lethal boot to maximise damage and cool around goal, he's able to get off the leash so easily because he's not just an inside mid that releases outside runners, he breaks ankles and shakes opponents consistently then releases himself...

Big tank and clearly plays for his teammates, top 20 for tackles PG and 5th in total tackles. From all reports has all the off field intangibles you want in an AFL captain.

Generation player, not a missing piece.

If he hints he might want to be a bomber I'd give a first and whoever they rate more out of Francis/Parish/Laverde/Langford without a second thought, ever. Possibly even 2 of those depending which pair.

I'd have no issue with our 2017 & 2018 1st and we look to pry a 2018 2nd rounder back (like the Treloar deal).
Add Kelly to our mix and our 2018 1st is going to be a late one.
Our 2017 1st we will know more about come trade time.

Belly/Berger Heppell Kelly
Merrett Parish Zaka
Langford Colyer Laverde McGrath in support
Begley Francis Mutch Clarke - all in support.

Backline is looking quite sorted
Forward line is settled.

We lose one top rated kid and we get a later pick in 2018's super draft for a top 5 midfielder in the comp

No brainer deal for me.

 

[Teflon Dons]

Not trading away our future for anyone sorry. Maybe Langford but not the other three.

A combination of any of those 2, apart from Parish and Francis together, Josh Kelly in return is the opposite of throwing our future away imo. Honestly if you can't live with the thought of up giving up Langford, Laverde, or an unproven Francis plus a 1st (2nd or 3rd if it's Francis) for this kid, you're just being stubborn.

Averaging more disposals at a higher efficiency than Sam Mitchell in any of their premiership years, and he does half of his work in heavy traffic... Without Sam Mitchell hawthorn might have 2 flags, and only because Burgoyne is who he is, definitely 0 without Buddy as well as Mitch, **** you Richmond you've had 2 decent key forwards ever and you opt for Tambling and gift the hawks 2 flags... back on topic, that's the type of player Josh Kelly is going to be, add elite running, hunger to apply real pressure and lay strong tackles and a huge threat in front of goal.

He has all the tools and the attitude to be the greatest ever. My first instinct suggests he will take that title when it's all done, barring serious injury or a 9 year sentence at north Melbourne.
He'll be the difference when it matters.

Our future would be bright with Josh Kelly no matter how you try and spin it. The beauty of draft picks is you get more every season, more young talent will come through and look likely, none of them will be sure things and I'd like to see a premiership before Hooker and Hurley have to retire, defenders like Hurley don't come around that often.

I feel we're tracking a lot better than anyone expected which probably allows dodo to manage the list to open our window either 2018 or 19.

Giving up a couple of early picks in an attempt to make the most of a special talent like Hurley isn't selling our future for the present. Not saying we give all of our first round picks for 7 years to stay successful, a la Clarko, but a couple wouldn't hurt. Sydney have done it better than anyone and should be the blueprint. Add kids around talent to learn from the best and repeat.

Our list is exceptionally well balanced imo and Kelly would slot straight into a significant role given his ability to pull off kicks that most wouldn't even think, he's someone who would thrive in woosha's style of ball movement and add a lot to our team defence.

 

[WEEVZ]

A combination of any of those 2, apart from Parish and Francis together, Josh Kelly in return is the opposite of throwing our future away imo. Honestly if you can't live with the thought of up giving up Langford, Laverde, or an unproven Francis plus a 1st (2nd or 3rd if it's Francis) for this kid, you're just being stubborn.

Averaging more disposals at a higher efficiency than Sam Mitchell in any of their premiership years, and he does half of his work in heavy traffic... Without Sam Mitchell hawthorn might have 2 flags, and only because Burgoyne is who he is, definitely 0 without Buddy as well as Mitch, **** you Richmond you've had 2 decent key forwards ever and you opt for Tambling and gift the hawks 2 flags... back on topic, that's the type of player Josh Kelly is going to be, add elite running, hunger to apply real pressure and lay strong tackles and a huge threat in front of goal.

He has all the tools and the attitude to be the greatest ever. My first instinct suggests he will take that title when it's all done, barring serious injury or a 9 year sentence at north Melbourne.
He'll be the difference when it matters.

Our future would be bright with Josh Kelly no matter how you try and spin it. The beauty of draft picks is you get more every season, more young talent will come through and look likely, none of them will be sure things and I'd like to see a premiership before Hooker and Hurley have to retire, defenders like Hurley don't come around that often.

I feel we're tracking a lot better than anyone expected which probably allows dodo to manage the list to open our window either 2018 or 19.

Giving up a couple of early picks in an attempt to make the most of a special talent like Hurley isn't selling our future for the present. Not saying we give all of our first round picks for 7 years to stay successful, a la Clarko, but a couple wouldn't hurt. Sydney have done it better than anyone and should be the blueprint. Add kids around talent to learn from the best and repeat.

Our list is exceptionally well balanced imo and Kelly would slot straight into a significant role given his ability to pull off kicks that most wouldn't even think, he's someone who would thrive in woosha's style of ball movement and add a lot to our team defence.

Not giving away Francis for anyone (and I'm getting more and more annoyed by people saying we should look to offload him), he's easily the most talented and has the largest upside of any of our young players for mine. It's not a question of stubbornness either, I'm just saying that given where our list is at we can't sell the farm for one player no matter how good they might be.

And while I don't disagree that at some point it'd be a good idea to do something like that, we're not at that point yet. If we were at a point where we could honestly say he's the last piece of the puzzle then I'd absolutely agree, but again now is not that time. Let's wait until we're consistently making the eight/top 4, lets not kid ourselves we're still a developing and rebuilding club and losing Watson, Goddard, Hocking, etc. over the next year or two will hurt us no matter how you spin it.

If the club chooses to go down that path I will back them in of course, but right no I don't think it's a good idea. Someone like Hopper fills a greater need.

I also get the feeling the Kelly is the type to accept less than market value in terms of $$$ for team success, and the Giants are a lot closer than we are. He's also apparently very happy at the Giants, so until something comes out suggesting otherwise, I'd say he's staying and we should be eyeing other targets instead.

 

[Rack Watts]

I'd just rather Dodoro use picks instead of spend two first rounders on Kelly to be honest. I'd prefer to get Matty Kennedy than Kelly, cheaper and he's what we need.

 

[Teflon Dons]

Not giving away Francis for anyone (and I'm getting more and more annoyed by people saying we should look to offload him), he's easily the most talented and has the largest upside of any of our young players for mine. It's not a question of stubbornness either, I'm just saying that given where our list is at we can't sell the farm for one player no matter how good they might be.

And while I don't disagree that at some point it'd be a good idea to do something like that, we're not at that point yet. If we were at a point where we could honestly say he's the last piece of the puzzle then I'd absolutely agree, but again now is not that time. Let's wait until we're consistently making the eight/top 4, lets not kid ourselves we're still a developing and rebuilding club and losing Watson, Goddard, Hocking, etc. over the next year or two will hurt us no matter how you spin it.

If the club chooses to go down that path I will back them in of course, but right no I don't think it's a good idea. Someone like Hopper fills a greater need.

I also get the feeling the Kelly is the type to accept less than market value in terms of $$$ for team success, and the Giants are a lot closer than we are. He's also apparently very happy at the Giants, so until something comes out suggesting otherwise, I'd say he's staying and we should be eyeing other targets instead.

Okay, because I have a lot more faith in our recruiting after 2013 and taking into account your affection, I'll take Francis off the table to appease you. I still get the feeling from the tone of your post you think Kelly is someone at the peak of his powers with 3 years of good footy left to try help a contender win him a flag before retiring. Which I can forgive due to the level he's currently at.

He's 22 with a decade of good footy and his prime to look forward to. He's the most complete mid I've seen and if we don't get him early for "cheap", he will haunt us.

The suggestion that any one of those 4 and a 1st round pick for talent like that is "selling the farm" is pretty silly, seeing as we'd be buying Richard Brandon's island with the money. I know what I'd prefer... **** the farm for mine.

 

[Teflon Dons]

I'd just rather Dodoro use picks to be honest. He's been killing it.

The reason I'm happy giving some away. Fantasia was pick 55...FMD. Merrett late in the same draft, one we were supposedly banned from but ended up adding 2 players in our top 10 for the next decade.

 

[Rack Watts]

To be fair, he himself said Merrett was an instinctive, last minute thing, and he almost went Lobb, but Bomber said 'go with your heart on it'. The Fantasia pick was Nathan Bassett's recommendation.

 

[Teflon Dons]

To be fair, he himself said Merrett was an instinctive, last minute thing, and he almost went Lobb, but Bomber said 'go with your heart on it'. The Fantasia pick was Nathan Bassett's recommendation.

Opinions given to Dodoro to ultimately make the call? I'm not really educated on our recruitment staff is structured and who holds weight in decisions. If Bassett wasn't a fluke and the majority are still there, I'll back them with a couple less early picks if it means Kelly. The only current player on the market I'd deal what I suggested before. The only other I think about giving that much for would be Tom Lynch.

I don't think I'd give two picks and a player for him however, something I'm open to for Kelly. God he's a jet.

If anyone in Adrian Dodoros family is on bigfooty, pm me his number I wanna let him know how good I reckon Kelly is.

 

[Big Fresh]

Okay, because I have a lot more faith in our recruiting after 2013 and taking into account your affection, I'll take Francis off the table to appease you. I still get the feeling from the tone of your post you think Kelly is someone at the peak of his powers with 3 years of good footy left to try help a contender win him a flag before retiring. Which I can forgive due to the level he's currently at.

He's 22 with a decade of good footy and his prime to look forward to. He's the most complete mid I've seen and if we don't get him early for "cheap", he will haunt us.

The suggestion that any one of those 4 and a 1st round pick for talent like that is "selling the farm" is pretty silly, seeing as we'd be buying Richard Brandon's island with the money. I know what I'd prefer... **** the farm for mine.

I think you're overrating Kelly a bit. He might become the best player in the league, but if you believe he'll probably be the GOAT and is the most complete mid you've seen (even though he's not quite a clearance beast or an aerial threat), you're probably getting carried away.

 

[Teflon Dons]

I think you're overrating Kelly a bit. He might become the best player in the league, but if you believe he'll probably be the GOAT and is the most complete mid you've seen (even though he's not quite a clearance beast or an aerial threat), you're probably getting carried away.

I wanna see some big fish flying round this thread not stockpiling draft picks and building a sustainable future... It's bigfooty we ain't as educated as we like to think. Kelly is a special player, if I call GOAT this far out it'll make me feel really good about myself if it happens to turn out that way. We have 2 blokes on our team that really deserve a premiership in Jobe and Goddard, if we get kelly the chances of that increase dramatically. I'd love to see them get one given what they've both done for Essendon during our darkest time.

Since it's subjective I'm already feeling really good about my chances of being right about Kelly...

In seriousness though my GOAT is Ablett jnr atm and Kelly looks most likely to overtake him from the current crop if premierships and brownlows stack up. I'd like those flags to be with us.

 

[Greendogg5]

Okay, because I have a lot more faith in our recruiting after 2013 and taking into account your affection, I'll take Francis off the table to appease you. I still get the feeling from the tone of your post you think Kelly is someone at the peak of his powers with 3 years of good footy left to try help a contender win him a flag before retiring. Which I can forgive due to the level he's currently at.

He's 22 with a decade of good footy and his prime to look forward to. He's the most complete mid I've seen and if we don't get him early for "cheap", he will haunt us.

The suggestion that any one of those 4 and a 1st round pick for talent like that is "selling the farm" is pretty silly, seeing as we'd be buying Richard Brandon's island with the money. I know what I'd prefer... **** the farm for mine.

Completely agree.