Trade Talk (not draft talk)

[pod17]

Good posts by both Warwick and Stocka. I tend to agree more with Warwick on this issue. The Swans traded in almost as many players as us at the end of last season. They are currently preparing for a semi final whilst we limped into a position in the middle of the bottom eight.

The difference between the players drafted by both clubs was highlighted nicely by Warwick. Mumford, Kennedy, McGlynn and even Bradshaw would all currently be on their former clubs lists had they not decided to seek a trade. Buchanan, Raines, Clarke and Maguire (although he was good this year) would arguably not be on their former clubs list. Mumford, Kennedy and McGlynn didn't get games at their former clubs because of their inexperience and quality of other players surrounding them. That is not to say they are not good footballers- just starved of opportunity. Clarke, Maguire, Raines and Buchanan were all in the system for quite some time, yet at the point of their departure, could not get games in the ones. They had been overtaken by younger players with more potential.

I agree Stocka we may not be as good at extracting the most out of recycled players but the Swans are experts at identifying good trade targets. So are the Saints. Yes there is the odd miss but it appears we miss with recycled blokes a lot more often than we win. There are bargains out there to be had- we just have to be better at indentifying them. I supported Voss' theory of selecting mature bodies to bridge the gap we had in our list- my anger is directed at the mature players he chose to fill this gap. We should not be discouraged from topping up via the trade period because of one poor year. What we need to do is get better at indentifying talented players from other lists that are dominating lower levels and offering them a contract with the promise of regular game time in the ones.

 

[western royboy]

The thing with the Swans is that they only trade for players that they have a need for. They go to the player and say we have a need to fill this role, we think you can do it whatdo you reckon. Recruiting is specific to the needs of the team. That gives them a better hit rate than most.

They never recruit depth players.

 

[dlanod]

Swans also had an advantage in that they were able to pay what would be consider as over the odds for Mumford, Bradshaw, Kennedy and McGlynn (all received offers their previous clubs couldn't match). This was due to their mass retirements last year. Salary cap mismanagement coming back to bite us again - we had to take players who we wouldn't get into a bidding war over.

 

[mickeyblueeyes37]

We will trade for a pick hopefully to the Gold Coast only guy that I can see going is Sherman by the way fans are talking and if he goes I hope he has a blinder like riska and sticks up the lot of you.Oh and one last thing I don’t think will we will finish in the 8 but all these other w***ers saying a spoon so I stuff them and I change my prediction to 4th and if Fevola stays he will boot 90 if fit so watch out Collywobbles and Geeflogs were coming.

 

[pod17]

Swans also had an advantage in that they were able to pay what would be consider as over the odds for Mumford, Bradshaw, Kennedy and McGlynn (all received offers their previous clubs couldn't match). This was due to their mass retirements last year. Salary cap mismanagement coming back to bite us again - we had to take players who we wouldn't get into a bidding war over.

Yep good point on the retirements. I also agree that we had to take players we wouldn't get into a bidding war with. My argument would be we weren't astute enough with who we chased. The players we did end up chasing were given three year contracts- stupid. Staker was fantastic but him aside none of the others deserve two years let alone three.

We could have, without blowing the salary cap, targeted a few up and comers that would have had a few years development at another club. This way they would be ready to play seniors, filling the gap on the list Voss identified, whilst still being young enough to contribute over a number of seasons.
Buchanan, Raines, Maguire and Clarke were all injury prone in the last few years and are unlikely to offer any sort of output post 2011 or 12.

The Swans do indeed draft players that fill a requirement on the list. Why didn't we? Everyone could see we lacked pace after last year yet not one of the guys we recruited possesses any. As Quigley pointed out a guy like Ediriwickrama would fit in very nicely at the Lions yet wouldn't cost us the world draft pick wise nor paycheck wise. He would still have plenty of time to become an 8 season plus player. Djerrkurra the same. Atkinson, who admittedly needs to work on his disposal, would have at least filled a pace requirement on our list which IMO should still be a priority to address this off season. This year with Brennan and Rischitelli leaving we will have to recruit a couple of inside mids. Armitage, whilst not rated by many on here, is an obvious target that shouldn't cost the world if the Saints are fair about it. Houli is another no doubt looking for greater opportunity (although not as 'inside' as Armitage). Again bargains are there to be had- we just have to be smarter about the way we go about it.

 

[Quigley]

Ranga would be a good get for us. This was his second year on the rookie list at Geelong so there is a chance he will be let go with all the injury issues he has had.

The guy I picked in the practice phantom draft Andrew Krakouer is one I think we should definately consider and who wouldn't cost us much. He could come in and have an immediate impact. The light has gone on for him although age and character would have to be issues to consider. I am sure Hadley is all over it being based in WA.

 

[western royboy]

Ranga would be a good get for us. This was his second year on the rookie list at Geelong so there is a chance he will be let go with all the injury issues he has had.

The guy I picked in the practice phantom draft Andrew Krakouer is one I think we should definately consider and who wouldn't cost us much. He could come in and have an immediate impact. The light has gone on for him although age and character would have to be issues to consider. I am sure Hadley is all over it being based in WA.

To quote Phillip Ronald Gould; "No, No, No, No" IMO.

 

[thoselionslads]

Yep good point on the retirements. I also agree that we had to take players we wouldn't get into a bidding war with. My argument would be we weren't astute enough with who we chased. The players we did end up chasing were given three year contracts- stupid. Staker was fantastic but him aside none of the others deserve two years let alone three.

We could have, without blowing the salary cap, targeted a few up and comers that would have had a few years development at another club. This way they would be ready to play seniors, filling the gap on the list Voss identified, whilst still being young enough to contribute over a number of seasons.
Buchanan, Raines, Maguire and Clarke were all injury prone in the last few years and are unlikely to offer any sort of output post 2011 or 12.

The Swans do indeed draft players that fill a requirement on the list. Why didn't we? Everyone could see we lacked pace after last year yet not one of the guys we recruited possesses any. As Quigley pointed out a guy like Ediriwickrama would fit in very nicely at the Lions yet wouldn't cost us the world draft pick wise nor paycheck wise. He would still have plenty of time to become an 8 season plus player. Djerrkurra the same. Atkinson, who admittedly needs to work on his disposal, would have at least filled a pace requirement on our list which IMO should still be a priority to address this off season. This year with Brennan and Rischitelli leaving we will have to recruit a couple of inside mids. Armitage, whilst not rated by many on here, is an obvious target that shouldn't cost the world if the Saints are fair about it. Houli is another no doubt looking for greater opportunity (although not as 'inside' as Armitage). Again bargains are there to be had- we just have to be smarter about the way we go about it.

I cannot understand the people who dismiss the notion of chasing Armitage. Disregarding the fact he is a Queenslander, he is a bloody good footballer. He is still young, has been at a club with a successful environment and had the opportunity to learn the tricks of the trade off some of the best midfielders in the AFL, he is just struggling for opportunity - something we can just about guarantee. Whilst I'm not convinced he would come as cheap as suggested, surely players like Armitage are the types we should be pursuing.

I must admit I had expected him to cement Luke Ball's spot in the Saints midfield this year, however anybody who is an avid follower of junior football in Queensland will know how much talent this bloke has.

 

[Obeanie1]

The point I was making was not whether they have performed better at Sydney, but whether they would have performed better at the Lions. Hence my follow-up comment about Sydney having a good record with recycled players as well as being able to get the best out of the players who they have.

On one hand, Warwick, you label just about every player that we've recruited as a hard-nut clam with nothing to offer, yet, I would not be surprised at all if you'd said much the same about many of the players who Sydney have successfully recycled over the last few years as well, prior to them being successful with the Swans.

You need to remember the Swans do play a less skillfull, harder working game plan.

Basically lets use the touch line, create a rolling maul with 40 players following the ball around and finish off with a bit of class.

That game style suits players with grit and strength not skillfull running types. So its petty hard to gauge how either set of players would have gone at opposing clubs.

McGlynn is better that Buchanan though.

 

[Warwick]

You know Warwick, sometimes I have difficulty distinguishing if you're intention is to discuss the topic at hand or to regale us with your ability in condescension....

Show me where I was condescending. Or not discussing the topic.

What?!

Don't those two questions amount to the same thing?

No.

You originally asked whether the Swans recruits would have done better than the lot we grabbed. My opinion is yes.

You than tried to turn it to mean whether they would have done better at the Lions than at the Swans. Read your original question.

To put an end to your quibbling about what you think I originally meant

Now who's being condescending?

How dare I answer the original question you posed. If you meant it in a different way, perhaps you should have re-phrased it rather than get narky.

Just a couple? The following quote from the Dan Collins thread seems to suggest otherwise:

Sounds like a bit of a wide-sweeping generalisation to me! Lol!

How is that a generalisation?

I didn't say we only go after hard-nut clams with no speed.



I can use emoticons as well.

 

[pauldrc]

Another GC Suns annoncement tomorrow morning....wonder if it will be Riska....

 

[Nuggo]

Another GC Suns annoncement tomorrow morning....wonder if it will be Riska....

Sounds as though Rischitelli will be named after the B&F (if he is actually going of course).

 

[chopperduck]

Would imagine by the timing it would have more to do with one of the top 8 teams that were just booted out of the finals.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Would imagine by the timing it would have more to do with one of the top 8 teams that were just booted out of the finals.

Campbell Brown seems the obvious guess.

 

[whatboutbob]

Would imagine by the timing it would have more to do with one of the top 8 teams that were just booted out of the finals.

Yeah, Campbell Brown you'd think.

ETA: *shakes fix at TBD*

 

[Hollow Knight]

Yeah, Campbell Brown you'd think.

ETA: *shakes fix at TBD*

Never had a fix shaken at me before.

 

[whatboutbob]

I'm gonna go have a coupla beers so that I can justify that...

 

[Mr Ripper]

Never had a fix shaken at me before.

You've never met any Indian bookies, then.

 

[Gabbatoir]

Drafts and Trading board suggesting Brennan could secure us pick 7.
Great news if true.

 

[Football Pope]

You've never met any Indian bookies, then.

Yep... just had the results for the October 1-5 India V Australia test at Mohali texted through... India win by 84 runs.4th day...

 

[Hollow Knight]

Drafts and Trading board suggesting Brennan could secure us pick 7.
Great news if true.

Not holding my breath on that one, but would be rapt if it was true.

Couldn't they just give us Toy for Brennan instead.

 

[Axel.]

Couldn't they just give us Toy for Brennan instead.

 

[Gabbatoir]

haha pisser

 

[borrat]

watching yesterdays game i felt extremely vindicated about desperately wanting tdl at brisbane he is EXACTLY what brisbane need and yet they didnt pick him

i will be EXTREMELY pissed of if brisbane dont get a similar kind of player its not like there are a shortage of them or anything check the small forwards thread on the drafts board

and having seen first hand most of the vfl players mentioned i know first hand how good they really are

 

[mickeyblueeyes37]

And that's why there in the VFL cause half the time there betters then the AFL player’s. Same goes for the other leagues except your spuds playing in the QAFL.How Labrador made I just don’t know but go the tigers I played a couple for them so they get my vote.Anyway on to the Saints 3rd round pick for armpitt?

Confuzzled any of you?.