Trade week - the wash-up thread

[Miguel Sanchez]

No, i am saying that Worsfold argued against turning over the list and trading any players out for picks or younger players to regenerate and exchange players who will only be there for another 2 years for a player who wil be there for 5-10 years and that this is a short term view for a club in our position.

Were you present for said argument, or is that merely supposition and speculation?

 

[Geoffe_Miles]

The overtures you're talking about would have to have involved some groundwork well before trade week started. If we'd got knocked back then, then we would probably have sat back and done not much during trade week. By the time trade week came around there certainly wasn't much available that I personally would have been interested in.

Clark is probably the exception. His manager seemed to nominate Freo though, who knows what interest the club had in him? Out of interest, what would you have been prepared to give up for him?

I would be prepared to trade anything on our list bar Le Cras, Hurn, Kennedy and a smattering of the youngsters who look good, i.e. NicNat, Shuey, Sheppard and maybe one or two others i am forgetting. Anything other than those are tradeable in my view, plus any of our picks bar pick 4.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

I would be prepared to trade anything on our list bar Le Cras, Hurn, Kennedy and a smattering of the youngsters who look good, i.e. NicNat, Shuey, Sheppard and maybe one or two others i am forgetting. Anything other than those are tradeable in my view, plus any of our picks bar pick 4.

OK. Pitch a trade for Clark to Brisbane without using those players or pick 4.

 

[Geoffe_Miles]

Were you present for said argument, or is that merely supposition and speculation?

Worsfold has said in every interview all year that he doesn't think we should turn over the list and defended all the underperformers. He has been arguing for 3 years that this list will take us to a flag and we shouldn't turn it over. He doesn't think our list is s*** like most people. Look at the contracts that these blokes got FFS. Do you think that this all hapenned against Worsfold's wishes to turn over the list and he has been lying whne he says he sees no need to turn over the list.

 

[larrikin]

No, i am saying that Worsfold argued against turning over the list and trading any players out for picks or younger players to regenerate and exchange players who will only be there for another 2 years for a player who wil be there for 5-10 years and that this is a short term view for a club in our position.

We had the youngest team running around all year. We have a handfull of senior players on our list (apart from a couple who we'd obviously be rid of if out of contract in Hansen and Bones). We are youn

 

[Jafa]

Your argument is that a coach fighting for his survival with one year left on his contract and needing a drastic improvement in form to keep his job is going to go to trade week arguing to trade out 25 year olds for draft picks and 17 year olds?

If you are going to have a go at me, mate, at least think it through first and try and make sense. Otherwise you look like a goose who's brain doesn't function.

That only works if you believe that he is fighting for his survival. Personally I don't think he is.

I think he has accepted that one of two things will happen at the end of next year - we will either have a new coach, or we won't.

 

[Geoffe_Miles]

OK. Pitch a trade for Clark to Brisbane without using those players or pick 4.

Offer them Ebert or Brown or McKenzie. Offer them Ash Smith/Rosa/Adam Selwood plus pick 26 (or whatever it is we have). Try and do a 3 way trade where we offload Cox or Kerr or Priddis. The most important thing is to get Clark committed to coming because once that happens Brisbane have a lot of pressure on to do a trade. And don't forget that if we do get to that stage we had pick 1 in PSD to use as leverage.

 

[Inzy]

Thank god the Eagles didn't listen to the numptys on here who decided trading valuable players who would return far less than what their worth is the way up.

No one we have has any currency. They are worth more to us than what we would get in return.

All year people bag McKinley, Spangher etc then wonder why the club can't get anything for them.

The rumour was Carlton wanted Kerr for Walker and 36. Yet people on here want to bag the club for not offloading him for a first rounder.

The disconnect on here between fantasy and reality can get very painful to read.

Spektre, sdb4884, Patronij just continue to bag the club in every single post because we're not doing anything, yet offer no worthwhile alternative, and continue to gloss over the fact we can't just pay out the contracts and delist everyone they don't like. 'Working harder to trade Spangher' isn't an alternative. 'Shopping around Kerr' isn't an alternative. 'Getting rid of our deadwood' isn't an alternative. Who is going to pay anything to get the deadwood of the wooden spooners.

As much as we might like to offload two of our aging stars with injury problems for a young gun, how about thinking from the opposite perspective. Would we be keen to move on Naitanui because we got offered a Joel Corey/Adam Goodes/Matty Scarlett/Nathan Bock etc? Of course we wouldn't. So neither will others.

This isn't fantasy footy where you can pull the changes willy nilly and quit the game when your moves don't come off.

There's a few on here who provide a bit of reality but they're getting overrun by people who want change for change's sake.

 

[Geoffe_Miles]

That only works if you believe that he is fighting for his survival. Personally I don't think he is.

I think he has accepted that one of two things will happen at the end of next year - we will either have a new coach, or we won't.

He is not fighting for his survival but he has accepted that he may not still have his job and still be coach at the end of next year. Good one.

 

[larrikin]

Worsfold has said in every interview all year that he doesn't think we should turn over the list and defended all the underperformers. He has been arguing for 3 years that this list will take us to a flag and we shouldn't turn it over. He doesn't think our list is s*** like most people. Look at the contracts that these blokes got FFS. Do you think that this all hapenned against Worsfold's wishes to turn over the list and he has been lying whne he says he sees no need to turn over the list.

You're actually missing John's point. He believes the list has already been turned over, and the younger players on the list (NickNat, Kennedy, Masten, Shuey, Shep, LeCras, Hurn, Brown etc etc) are the key, not the older players.

All of his quotes back this up, and he talks about the older boys (Cox, Kerr, Glass, Embley, Selwood etc) being still young enough to show them the way.

He may well be wrong, but that's his point.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

Offer them Ebert or Brown or McKenzie.

None of that would get the deal done, on its own. Possibly Brown with something else thrown in, but it'd involve him wanting to go to Brisbane and in any event I wouldn't want to trade him.

Offer them Ash Smith/Rosa/Adam Selwood plus pick 26 (or whatever it is we have).

Rosa or Selwood wouldn't get it done. Why would you want to get rid of Smith after what he showed this year?

Try and do a 3 way trade where we offload Cox or Kerr or Priddis.

Doubt Priddis would have much currency. Kerr maybe. I think I've said already in this thread that I'd rather hang onto him than get below value for him, which is what would happen. Trading a 200-game club stalwart who doesnt want to leave would be highly detrimental to the team's morale, which you yourself has said is pretty low.

The most important thing is to get Clark committed to coming because once that happens Brisbane have a lot of pressure on to do a trade. And don't forget that if we do get to that stage we had pick 1 in PSD to use as leverage.

Clark was contracted so PSD wouldn't have been an option.

 

[The_Gambler]

Another wasted week for us, will we ever snap out of this slump? in comparison Fremantle continue to move up and up.

How did Fremantle continue to move up and up? Last I looked they lost an AA KPD and picked up a few State League level players who are likely to prop up the standard of the WAFL.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

He is not fighting for his survival but he has accepted that he may not still have his job and still be coach at the end of next year. Good one.

I think he meant that the decision's been made and next year's results won't change anything.

 

[Scooter#10]

okay seriously. who do you think would want the following players and what value do they hold

lynch
bones
hansen
spangher
nicoski

they have zero value. mckinley has much more upside then any of them, and he went for pick 86. spangher is the youngest of those 5, yet no one wanted him. what chance do the others have?

yes you could argue that we should have gotten rid of kerr, rosa, ebert, embley etc. but these players didnt want to leave. simple as that. what exactly do you suggest the club does to them? tell them to just f*** off?

 

[mezaire]

I don't exactly know what people expected, we shopped around what we could an got no takers.

This is more like the reality of the players people have talked about that should have been shopped around.

Kerr - In reality not many clubs would of given us much more than Carlton offered. For an anology, he's a bit like my boss's 1989 Porshe 928 S4. It was fantatsic when new and cost a bucket load and although it still goes like shite off a shiney shovel, it breaks down a fair bit and in reality most people who are not Porshe fanatics would only pay about half of what my boss thinks it's worth!!!
If we get 70 more good games out of him most of us will be pretty happy, so who is going to front up a top 20 pick for a player that will only be around for another 3-4 years worth of games??

Lynch - Not a bad depth player for us as he can fill in at FF and ruck. Also a good option as the sub. Probably worth around pick 40 at best this year and lower next so why not keep him on 1 year contracts as a back up.

Nicoski, Hansen and Bones - Put these guys together as I see them worth about the same, 2 tenths of f/all. Seriously if your team paid more than pick 60 for any of these guys you'd be pretty pissed.

McGinnity - I think he'll get a fair bit better this year and once he learns the game some more will be an efficient tagger. Take a look at Jones from St. Kilda, took him 2-3 years to become a good tagger and hurt teams the other way.

Spangher - Obviosly shopped around but zero interest.

So even if we managed to trade all of these guys we might of got a pick in the 20's (Kerr), a pick in the 40's (Lynch) and a few picks outside 60, so what's the point??

Also you have to remember that putting two poor/average players together doesn't mean they are worth more, eg. would you pay a pick in the 30's for Lynch and Nicoski or rather take your chances on a youngster??

We are WCE not Jesus, so stop expecting us to turn water into wine!!!

Mez

 

[Bestbird]

Some thoughts regarding our Trading or lack off

Pre draft The club appeared to be proactive sounding out Wells & Garlett (Carlton) but both signed for their respective clubs. Not much we could have done about that

During trade week we could have used our prioty pick on an experienced outside Mid. There were two in the draft in Sherman & Tambling that went for around that pick but both had large question marks about there worth to our club so probably were not worth the effort. Pick 4 for rich would have been handy but i gather that was just media speculation

Most dissapointing personaly was that we didn't chase harder for Krak considering that the Collingwood deal wouldn't have been to bad for us either. The developing ruckman would have been handy considering the delisting of Sullivan.

As for McKinley, i gather we tried to get a pick upgrade or possible swap for another player (Hill would have been handy) but when that didn't eventuate we did the right thing by the player and traded him for the pick that was going to be used for Brennan.

 

[Geoffe_Miles]

OK. Pitch a trade for Clark to Brisbane without using those players or pick 4.

If you had said that to me about Collingwood and Tarrant before trade week and i had replied "offer pick 60" you would have laughed and said it wasn't possible. Look at what hapenned today. Just shows that once the player is set on going to that club the club has a big advantage and can often get away with getting the player for unders, even when the nominated club is the premier and has no PSD leverage to use.

 

[Matera92]

If you had said that to me about Collingwood and Tarrant before trade week and i had replied "offer pick 60" you would have laughed and said it wasn't possible. Look at what hapenned today. Just shows that once the player is set on going to that club the club has a big advantage and can often get away with getting the player for unders, even when the nominated club is the premier and has no PSD leverage to use.

You are conveniently leaving out the fact that Tarrant was threatening to retire if he didn't get to Collingwood, which is borderline Draft tampering.

 

[larrikin]

If you had said that to me about Collingwood and Tarrant before trade week and i had replied "offer pick 60" you would have laughed and said it wasn't possible. Look at what hapenned today. Just shows that once the player is set on going to that club the club has a big advantage and can often get away with getting the player for unders, even when the nominated club is the premier and has no PSD leverage to use.

Tarrant is 29 and was retiring if he didn't get to Collingwood - I'm not actually sure who you are comparing him to?

In fact, McKinley would be the best comparison we dealt with.

 

[Inzy]

If you had said that to me about Collingwood and Tarrant before trade week and i had replied "offer pick 60" you would have laughed and said it wasn't possible. Look at what hapenned today. Just shows that once the player is set on going to that club the club has a big advantage and can often get away with getting the player for unders, even when the nominated club is the premier and has no PSD leverage to use.

Players are falling over themselves to come to the wooden spooners

 

[larrikin]

You are conveniently leaving out the fact that Tarrant was threatening to retire if he didn't get to Collingwood, which is borderline Draft tampering.

Nope, perfectly legal, as long as he followed through

 

[Mr Shankly]

Thank god the Eagles didn't listen to the numptys on here who decided trading valuable players who would return far less than what their worth is the way up.

No one we have has any currency. They are worth more to us than what we would get in return.

All year people bag McKinley, Spangher etc then wonder why the club can't get anything for them.

The rumour was Carlton wanted Kerr for Walker and 36. Yet people on here want to bag the club for not offloading him for a first rounder.

The disconnect on here between fantasy and reality can get very painful to read.

Spektre, sdb4884, Patronij just continue to bag the club in every single post because we're not doing anything, yet offer no worthwhile alternative, and continue to gloss over the fact we can't just pay out the contracts and delist everyone they don't like. 'Working harder to trade Spangher' isn't an alternative. 'Shopping around Kerr' isn't an alternative. 'Getting rid of our deadwood' isn't an alternative. Who is going to pay anything to get the deadwood of the wooden spooners.

As much as we might like to offload two of our aging stars with injury problems for a young gun, how about thinking from the opposite perspective. Would we be keen to move on Naitanui because we got offered a Joel Corey/Adam Goodes/Matty Scarlett/Nathan Bock etc? Of course we wouldn't. So neither will others.

This isn't fantasy footy where you can pull the changes willy nilly and quit the game when your moves don't come off.

There's a few on here who provide a bit of reality but they're getting overrun by people who want change for change's sake.

Outstanding post.

 

[ioppolo]

So what exactly happened to Stevenson? Didnt get upgraded and havent heard of a delisting?

They'll do to him what they did to Jamie McNamara.

 

[Matera92]

Nope, perfectly legal, as long as he followed through

Hence the 'borderline'.

My point was you wouldn't expect Mitch Clark to come out and say "If I don't go to Club X I will retire so you had better make that trade happen".

 

[ITS ME]

Direction

Is there any one like me who is dissapointed in the direction of our club. Due to the last draft we are obviously not going to change much. Obviously there is so much faith in this squad that Worsfold doesnt want to make any major changes other than draft more Kids. I thought we would doa Fremantle and cull our dead wood and seriously rebuild and get in some mature bodies to help out. I dont think even in previous years i have been this dissapointed in the clubs inability to act.