Transgender - Part 2

[Gethelred]

Please be aware that the tolerance of anti-trans language on BF is at an all-time low. Jokes and insults that are trans-related, as well as anti-trans and bigoted rhetoric will be met with infractions, threadbans etc as required. It's a sensitive (and important) topic, so behave like well-mannered adults when discussing it, PARTICULARLY when disagreeing. This equally applies across the whole site.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Because you're giving cover for people who want to and do attack trans rights.

So be it. We can't spend our lives walking on eggshells worrying about who might misinterpret what we're really saying.

Maybe I'm older than a lot of other people on here. You may have noticed that one characteristic of people as they age is some of them just don't give a shit what other people think of them anymore. That's me increasingly.

Someone denying the validity of a trans person being trans, is contributing to a society where they can be dismissed as liars or unwell, leading to all kinds of personal and legal discrimination. That will (and does) lead to some pretty bad outcomes, including deaths of many.

You've said this denial is to be respected, and suggested that it's not something we should be concerned with. That's why you get the reaction you do.

I'm not saying this denial should be respected, I'm saying it should be understood.

And the simple reality is that there is a range of opinions on this question, as I see ShanDog has so articulately now described above.

And I've never said we should not be concerned with denial of trans rights. I've said we desperately need to get a realistic perspective on where trans rights sit in the full political panorama.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

It's not a witch hunt to merely point out you are avoiding the question

I didn't mean it was a witch hunt for you to say you think I'm avoiding the question. (Which I wasn't. I gave you a full answer to my understanding of the question.) I meant trying to prove I'm wrong, by saying that posters that you clearly detest liked my answer, is a witch hunt. "I don't like this guy's reply. So-and-so liked it! So-and-so is transphobic. So this guy might be suss too." That is a witch hunt. Trying to taint by association.

nothing more than word salad to that.

I'm sorry that's your conclusion. I always choose my words very carefully. If you want to point out anything that is unclear, I'm happy to try and explain it better.

Here's a tip for you, like all public forums, the response of general public is the guide to its acceptability.

I've been saying all along that I reckon most of the general public are, unfortunately, pretty uninterested in trans rights. Don't blame me.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Orright, I'll leave it there. Getting a little bit tired of having to re-explain myself over and over, to people that either can't understand my point (in which case, you have my sympathy) or who deliberately misrepresent or misinterpret it (in which case you have none.)

I'll comment in future as I see fit, but unless someone can dig up some convincing research showing that the number of transgender people in the community is anything more than a tiny sliver of the whole, or that support for transgender rights is far stronger and more widespread throughout the general population than I understand it to be (over to you, folks) I'll stick to my belief:

That for people dedicated to the progressive cause, transgender rights are not nearly as important as other far more urgent issues, and the way forward is not to ignore trans rights, but to quietly slip the matter well down the list of priorities.

Because it's sucking way too much oxygen when most of the punters aren't very interested anyway. And because it's an absolute gift to the dickheads who want to see us fail.

I'd suggest people might find this recent article provokes some food for thought. I'll also re-post the article by (I believe the correct form of address is LOL Clive Hamilton), which I think is very germane.

This article is not about trans rights at all, but it is about how the left desperately needs to get its act together and find better ways of hitting the mark. Many times on BF I've observed that one thing we can learn from the right wing is they never give up. And on the question of climate denial, which is what this article is about, they're going as strong as ever.

Good day to you all.

As heat records break, the climate movement has the right answers – but the words are all wrong | Jonathan Freedland

The fossil fuel industry has spent billions on winning over the public. Green activists must learn from its tactics, says Guardian columnist Jonathan Freedland

www.theguardian.com

Wake up, lefties, and reject wokeness

Fear of being publicly shamed, bullied, cancelled or even fired is stifling sincere dialogue – and there’s nothing left-wing about that.

www.smh.com.au

 

[Cap]

I didn't mean it was a witch hunt for you to say you think I'm avoiding the question. (Which I wasn't. I gave you a full answer to my understanding of the question.) I meant trying to prove I'm wrong, by saying that posters that you clearly detest liked my answer, is a witch hunt. "I don't like this guy's reply. So-and-so liked it! So-and-so is transphobic. So this guy might be suss too." That is a witch hunt. Trying to taint by association.

Noting who does and doesn't agree with your views is a completely valid reflection on a discussion, that's your own person feeling of guilt by association, which should probably give you pause for thought.

But Its that's really up to you to either reconsider or accept at times your views and views of that type of person align, no big deal, sometimes they do. I mean covididiots probably like dogs too, that doesn't make dogs bad does it.

I'm sorry that's your conclusion. I always choose my words very carefully. If you want to point out anything that is unclear, I'm happy to try and explain it better.

Don't worry, I'll spare you the challenge, happy to read your other responses to posters willing to engage in wordsmithing.

I've been saying all along that I reckon most of the general public are, unfortunately, pretty uninterested in trans rights. Don't blame me.

I agree, I don't think the General public think it's a big deal, it shouldn't be.

However clearly it isn't about triggering progressives, that's fairly dismissive of the people actually impacted and ignores the reality of discrimination.

 

[Chief]

the company line

How centrist!

 

[Chief]

I'll stick to my belief:

That for people dedicated to the progressive cause, transgender rights are not nearly as important as other far more urgent issues, and the way forward is not to ignore trans rights, but to quietly slip the matter well down the list of priorities.

But trans rights are down the list of priorities. But we can do multiple things at once and easily make them a non-issue by simply not allowing special interests and opportunistic grifters to whip up hatred.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

But trans rights are down the list of priorities. But we can do multiple things at once and easily make them a non-issue by simply not allowing special interests and opportunistic grifters to whip up hatred.

Yeah, well glass half-empty / glass half-full kinda thing. Bottom line for me is when trans issues affect so few people in total, it's just stupid to rise to the RW bait every single time. Just ignore the turds.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Noting who does and doesn't agree with your views is a completely valid reflection on a discussion, that's your own person feeling of guilt by association, which should probably give you pause for thought.

Well you would say that, I mean, look who liked your post.

 

[Gough]

Yeah, well glass half-empty / glass half-full kinda thing. Bottom line for me is when trans issues affect so few people in total, it's just stupid to rise to the RW bait every single time. Just ignore the turds.

It's a bit more than just bait though. Certainly in America, and you can bet that's being watched with interest by the usual suspects here, the trans issue is being used as a proxy to undermine LGBTQIA+ rights in general.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Orright, I'll leave it there. Getting a little bit tired of having to re-explain myself over and over, to people that either can't understand my point (in which case, you have my sympathy) or who deliberately misrepresent or misinterpret it (in which case you have none.)

I'll comment in future as I see fit, but unless someone can dig up some convincing research showing that the number of transgender people in the community is anything more than a tiny sliver of the whole, or that support for transgender rights is far stronger and more widespread throughout the general population than I understand it to be (over to you, folks) I'll stick to my belief:

That for people dedicated to the progressive cause, transgender rights are not nearly as important as other far more urgent issues, and the way forward is not to ignore trans rights, but to quietly slip the matter well down the list of priorities.

Because it's sucking way too much oxygen when most of the punters aren't very interested anyway. And because it's an absolute gift to the dickheads who want to see us fail.

I'd suggest people might find this recent article provokes some food for thought. I'll also re-post the article by (I believe the correct form of address is LOL Clive Hamilton), which I think is very germane.

This article is not about trans rights at all, but it is about how the left desperately needs to get its act together and find better ways of hitting the mark. Many times on BF I've observed that one thing we can learn from the right wing is they never give up. And on the question of climate denial, which is what this article is about, they're going as strong as ever.

Good day to you all.

As heat records break, the climate movement has the right answers – but the words are all wrong | Jonathan Freedland

The fossil fuel industry has spent billions on winning over the public. Green activists must learn from its tactics, says Guardian columnist Jonathan Freedland

www.theguardian.com

Wake up, lefties, and reject wokeness

Fear of being publicly shamed, bullied, cancelled or even fired is stifling sincere dialogue – and there’s nothing left-wing about that.

www.smh.com.au

How come you not posting in the climate change thread then?

 

[Cap]

Well you would say that, I mean, look who liked your post.

I'm comfortable with that... but are you?

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

How come you not posting in the climate change thread then?

I already said I'm a hypocrite.

And I have posted on various climate threads, just not doing it at the minute.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

It's a bit more than just bait though. Certainly in America, and you can bet that's being watched with interest by the usual suspects here, the trans issue is being used as a proxy to undermine LGBTQIA+ rights in general.

Yeah, maybe. I think there's a lot of ifs in that.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

I'm comfortable with that... but are you?

Comfortable with what?

 

[Cap]

Comfortable with what?

I'm comfortable with who liked my post, again are you?

And yes of course I would say who agrees or likes what you say is a valid consideration, that's literally how humans have moderated their views since we started talking and having ideas.

Its not perfect , but If I said something about covid that an covid conspiracy theorists liked I most definitely be double checking what I said, if it turns out I'm happy with what I said and it's still accurate then so be it. But I would be checking.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

I'm comfortable with who liked my post, again are you?

And yes of course I would say who agrees or likes what you say is a valid consideration, that's literally how humans have moderated their views since we started talking and having ideas.

Its not perfect , but If I said something about covid that an covid conspiracy theorists liked I most definitely be double checking what I said, if it turns out I'm happy with what I said and it's still accurate then so be it. But I would be checking.

I think that's a teensy bit paranoid. I already said I don't care who likes my posts. Don't have time to check out their posting history and plus, we're all just anonymous schmoes on the internet (I've been here 10 years and have made 25,000 posts - have you really checked me out?)

 

[Cap]

I think that's a teensy bit paranoid. I already said I don't care who likes my posts. Don't have time to check out their posting history and plus, we're all just anonymous schmoes on the internet (I've been here 10 years and have made 25,000 posts - have you really checked me out?)

Whatever floats your boat my friend

But we are definitely anonymous that is for sure.

Nice chatting with you.

 

[Crankyhawk]

Orright, I'll leave it there. Getting a little bit tired of having to re-explain myself over and over, to people that either can't understand my point (in which case, you have my sympathy) or who deliberately misrepresent or misinterpret it (in which case you have none.)

I'll comment in future as I see fit, but unless someone can dig up some convincing research showing that the number of transgender people in the community is anything more than a tiny sliver of the whole, or that support for transgender rights is far stronger and more widespread throughout the general population than I understand it to be (over to you, folks) I'll stick to my belief:

That for people dedicated to the progressive cause, transgender rights are not nearly as important as other far more urgent issues, and the way forward is not to ignore trans rights, but to quietly slip the matter well down the list of priorities.

Because it's sucking way too much oxygen when most of the punters aren't very interested anyway. And because it's an absolute gift to the dickheads who want to see us fail.

I'd suggest people might find this recent article provokes some food for thought. I'll also re-post the article by (I believe the correct form of address is LOL Clive Hamilton), which I think is very germane.

This article is not about trans rights at all, but it is about how the left desperately needs to get its act together and find better ways of hitting the mark. Many times on BF I've observed that one thing we can learn from the right wing is they never give up. And on the question of climate denial, which is what this article is about, they're going as strong as ever.

Good day to you all.

As heat records break, the climate movement has the right answers – but the words are all wrong | Jonathan Freedland

The fossil fuel industry has spent billions on winning over the public. Green activists must learn from its tactics, says Guardian columnist Jonathan Freedland

www.theguardian.com

Wake up, lefties, and reject wokeness

Fear of being publicly shamed, bullied, cancelled or even fired is stifling sincere dialogue – and there’s nothing left-wing about that.

www.smh.com.au

I’m appreciative of your contribution
My thought as a straight yellow cismale is that rights for gay people likely also started from a similar space (only of interest to themselves, “mainstream” thinking that gay people could have their orientation changes) and therefore I sense that a lot of those who currently support/ value gay rights see the parallels and so it motivates them to not have to repeat as long a journey for trans rights.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Whatever floats your boat my friend

But we are definitely anonymous that is for sure.

Nice chatting with you.

Likewise. Have a great day mate.

 

[Gralin]

Sky news doing an oopsie and claiming 922 kids are receiving hormone treatment when it's 102.

Just a minor **** up that they've been using to drive outrage.

 

[Gralin]

Seems some of the anti trans lesbians are finding out who they are in bed with and how expendable they are to the movement.

Lesbian mothers should be on birth certificates

Sometimes, biological reality isn't everything

unherd.com

 

[Gethelred]

Seems some of the anti trans lesbians are finding out who they are in bed with and how expendable they are to the movement.

Lesbian mothers should be on birth certificates

Sometimes, biological reality isn't everything

unherd.com

Politics - I cant believe a wombat ate my face off!!!!

“I never thought the wombats would eat MY face” sobbed the woman who joined the wombats Eating Peoples Faces Party. Seen someone who just cant believe that the party of demonising xyz actually demonises xyz - then post your schadenfreude riddled giggleworthy content here. Flow chart of...

www.bigfooty.com

 

[kirsti]

Haemoglobin & Aerobic Fitness Changes with GAHT & Cardiac size & function in trans people.




Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[The Tilt]

British Rowing: Transgender women banned from competing in female category

British Rowing says transgender women will not be able to compete in the women's category at its events.

www.bbc.com

 

[Liriel]

British Rowing: Transgender women banned from competing in female category

British Rowing says transgender women will not be able to compete in the women's category at its events.

www.bbc.com

More and more sports are coming to their senses.

One did amuse me though. Chess tournaments.

"World chess body bans transgender women from women's tournaments The International Chess Federation will stop allowing transgender women to participate in women's tournaments. The group said changing genders has a "significant impact" on a player's status."