Transgender - Part 2

[Gethelred]

Please be aware that the tolerance of anti-trans language on BF is at an all-time low. Jokes and insults that are trans-related, as well as anti-trans and bigoted rhetoric will be met with infractions, threadbans etc as required. It's a sensitive (and important) topic, so behave like well-mannered adults when discussing it, PARTICULARLY when disagreeing. This equally applies across the whole site.

 

[ShanDog]

What reasons that don't involve her being trans would you suggest the booing was for?



Why shouldn't she have been able to compete? Why were the boos justified?


Why shouldn't she have been there? Why were the boos justified?

Do you think they were a fair and proportionate response to a high school running race being won by a trans girl?

Do you think her being trans has nothing to do with your above posts or this situation?

Shouldn't have been there because it's unfair. Obviously. That justifies the boos. Of course them being trans has something to do with it - that's why it was unfair. But that's not the same as being boo'd BECAUSE they are trans. That's half the story, and why the way you worded your question was spin. You left out the critical context deliberately.

 

[Gralin]

Shouldn't have been there because it's unfair. Obviously. That justifies the boos. Of course them being trans has something to do with it - that's why it was unfair. But that's not the same as being boo'd BECAUSE they are trans. That's half the story, and why the way you worded your question was spin. You left out the critical context deliberately.

So booing someone for being somewhere she shouldn't be, because she is trans is not booing someone for being trans

glad you've cleared that up for me

 

[ShanDog]

So booing someone for being somewhere she shouldn't be, because she is trans is not booing someone for being trans

glad you've cleared that up for me

Subject v object. You're not seeing the difference willfully or ignorantly.

Were the boos directed at the unfair situation, or at the person?

 

[Gralin]

Subject v object. You're not seeing the difference willfully or ignorantly.

Were the boos directed at the unfair situation, or at the person?

Why was the situation considered unfair shan?

 

[ShanDog]

Why was the situation considered unfair shan?

You're proving my point.

 

[Gralin]

You're proving my point.

People that thought schools should be segregated booed black athletes when they won events

was that subjective or objective

would that be considered an issue of fairness in sport today or an example of racism?

 

[ShanDog]

People that thought schools should be segregated booed black athletes when they won events

was that subjective or objective

would that be considered an issue of fairness in sport today or an example of racism?

Absolutely not the same in any way.

 

[ShanDog]

And frankly, people would be justified in feeling offended that you even tried to make the comparison.

 

[Gralin]

Absolutely not the same in any way.

How so?

 

[ShanDog]

How so?

I'm not wasting my time explaining.

 

[Gralin]

I'm not wasting my time explaining.

what about when there was a campaign in the 80s to ban gay people from using the same bathrooms as straight people

do you see any parallels between that and womens spaces arguments today about trans women?

 

[ShanDog]

what about when there was a campaign in the 80s to ban gay people from using the same bathrooms as straight people

do you see any parallels between that and womens spaces arguments today about trans women?

Yes that one has similarities. Wasn't aware of that. Sounds stupid.

 

[Gralin]

Yes that one has similarities. Wasn't aware of that. Sounds stupid.

they use the same argument that is used in sports
that trans women aren't actually women and that it makes it unsafe for cis women to have to share change rooms with them

that its unfair to cis women that trans women get to use the same spaces as them

 

[ShanDog]

they use the same argument that is used in sports
that trans women aren't actually women and that it makes it unsafe for cis women to have to share change rooms with them

that its unfair to cis women that trans women get to use the same spaces as them

Trans women aren't actually women, so that part is correct. I also completely understand being uncomfortable with them in a woman's change room because of exactly that reason.

 

[Kram]

Isn't the opposite the same thing?

Like, allowingaa competitor, who less than 2 years ago was a biological male, also inflicting mental damage on the rest of the female competitors for political views?

Or os the mental damage of the female born competitors irrelevant when it comes to "inclusion"?

Yep imagine dedicating thousands of hours training only for that to happen.

 

[ShanDog]

I just heard thousands of fans boo at half time for a series of perceived incorrect umpiring decisions that didn't favour their team.

Were they booing because they are umpirephobic or because of the perceived unfairness of the situation?

 

[Ghost Patrol]

I'm not wasting my time explaining.

Please explain these words you wrote and how we should apply them to what you have written today.

 

[ShanDog]

Please explain these words you wrote and how we should apply them to what you have written today.

View attachment 2000090

In relation to what exactly?

 

[Ghost Patrol]

In relation to what exactly?

Explain how this not anti-trans language.

Trans women aren't actually women, so that part is correct. I also completely understand being uncomfortable with them in a woman's change room because of exactly that reason.

 

[ShanDog]

Explain how this not anti-trans language.

Because I don't accept it as such. I'm not saying they aren't trans or that trans people are bad or anything of that nature. It's not a slur with the sole purpose of being insulting or discriminatory. It's nothing but a statement of what I and the majority of people believe to be true.

 

[Gralin]

Because I don't accept it as such.

I didn't realise you were the arbiter of what is or isn't anti trans language

I'm not saying they aren't trans or that trans people are bad or anything of that nature.

no but that alone isn't proof that what you are saying isn't bad

It's not a slur with the sole purpose of being insulting or discriminatory.

it is denying their identity though, denying that when they tell you they are a woman that they are telling you a truth

It's nothing but a statement of what I and the majority of people believe to be true.

it is a statement that you don't believe trans people when they tell you who they are

whether you are alone or not in thinking this has no impact on whether it is true or valid

popular doesn't equal correct or right

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Because I don't accept it as such. I'm not saying they aren't trans or that trans people are bad or anything of that nature. It's not a slur with the sole purpose of being insulting or discriminatory. It's nothing but a statement of what I and the majority of people believe to be true.

So it's not the main slogan used by anti-trans groups?

 

[ShanDog]

I didn't realise you were the arbiter of what is or isn't anti trans language

I was asked to explain why it wasn't, so I did. What a weird thing to say in response.

The rest of your post is... meh. If someone claims to be a literal cat, I'm sure you'd deny that's in fact true. Similarly, I've no interest in turning this into a real-life version of 1984 and being brow-beaten into saying things that aren't true.

 

[SnakeMan86]

Why was the situation considered unfair shan?

We can all see what you are doing.
You're being deliberately obtuse to defect from the fact that she clealry had an unfair advantage and became a state champion.

Wound he be a state champion as a male? No.
Was she a state champion as a female? Yes.

How is that not unfair?

Its been easy to label Myself, ShanDog , whoever as anti trans for having this standpoint.

But the arguments here by yourself or Gethelred, that it's either not an advantage, or that its irrelevant for the sake of inclusion, we can make the same claim that you are anti-women.

 

[Gralin]

We can all see what you are doing.
You're being deliberately obtuse to defect from the fact that she clealry had an unfair advantage and became a state champion.

again you think she clearly had an unfair advantage but the actual research data doesn't show this currently

Wound he be a state champion as a male? No.
Was she a state champion as a female? Yes.

again you don't know this, do you know what her times were prior to transition?

How is that not unfair?

so when she came second to a cis competitor was that fair?
or does she still have an unfair advantage even when she doesn't win?

Its been easy to label Myself, ShanDog , whoever as anti trans for having this standpoint.

because you assume that in all instances trans women have an unfair biological advantage over cis women

But the arguments here by yourself or Gethelred, that it's either not an advantage, or that its irrelevant for the sake of inclusion, we can make the same claim that you are anti-women.

no my argument has been that the booing of her was crap and not justified