Transgender

[Gralin]

Discussion continuing in Part 2 found here

Transgender - Part 2

Please be aware that the tolerance of anti-trans language on BF is at an all-time low. Jokes and insults that are trans-related, as well as anti-trans and bigoted rhetoric will be met with infractions, threadbans etc as required. It's a sensitive (and important) topic, so behave like...

www.bigfooty.com

 

[Gough]

Imagine having to debate your existence 24/7

They're only thinking of the children.

 

[dumb]

If I was a trans woman I'd just want to be left the f*** alone.

it seems to me that change cubicles would be the best way to navigate in a way that keeps most people happy. that way they can get left alone, and the cis-gendered don't have to worry about seeing things between people's legs that they weren't expecting.
everyone gets to benefit from changing solitarily.

 

[faible]

Have you ever heard about females exposing their genitals to others in change rooms?

Yes?

That’s kinda what change rooms are for. Changing. Is a bloke getting changed in the men’s change room being a sexual predator when he’s putting his jocks on?

What a strange line of argument, of bloody course women get naked in the change rooms while they change.

 

[gouki88]

Because
1. People don't want their daughters exposed in dressing rooms
2. Women don't want their sports compromised

There is a simple solution and that is that there be a separate category just like disability, men, women, and add in trans

If only there was any evidence of either of your made up scenarios actually occurring. I get that it's easy to get angry at things you've imagined, but there's plenty of real-world injustice that you could direct that towards.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

I might be the odd one out but in all the male change rooms i have been in, men still take the effort to cover up their balls from view.

I have never been in a change room where penises are flying all over the place. I assume this would be the same for women?, thus a trans gender person would still be able to use the room they want without issue. I doubt she was standing on a bench doing the helicopter at these women.

It all seems really childish to me, like if a transgender person was using a change room i was as a male, i'd just mind my own business and let them mind theirs? Dont see the big deal with being an adult here.

People need to understand there is no black and white answer here, without segregating tans people. People need to adapt and be more understanding that we are in a new world, be an adult and just grow up.

 

[faible]

I might be the odd one out but in all the male change rooms i have been in, men still take the effort to cover up their balls from view.

I have never been in a change room where penises are flying all over the place. I assume this would be the same for women?, thus a trans gender person would still be able to use the room they want without issue. I doubt she was standing on a bench doing the helicopter at these women.

It all seems really childish to me, like if a transgender person was using a change room i was as a male, i'd just mind my own business and let them mind theirs? Dont see the big deal with being an adult here.

People need to understand there is no black and white answer here, without segregating tans people. People need to adapt and be more understanding that we are in a new world, be an adult and just grow up.

I'm not saying blokes are swinging their dicks around, but it's also not unexpected to see nudity.

Of course, unless someone's a creep, you don't go out of your way to look at others. Urinals operate in a similar fashion, eyes up.

 

[TheBigHorne]

If only there was any evidence of either of your made up scenarios actually occurring. I get that it's easy to get angry at things you've imagined, but there's plenty of real-world injustice that you could direct that towards.

No it happened like two times, so we should make a whole heap of transphobic laws.


Aside from that, as a trans person I'm not scared. Conservatives on social issues throughout history have been obliterated by time. Whether it be slavery, war civil rights and women's rights they always lose. I'm seeing the repeated arguments from those times as well, mainly from the civil rights movement.

 

[Gralin]

No it happened like two times, so we should make a whole heap of transphobic laws.


Aside from that, as a trans person I'm not scared. Conservatives on social issues throughout history have been obliterated by time. Whether it be slavery, war civil rights and women's rights they always lose. I'm seeing the repeated arguments from those times as well, mainly from the civil rights movement.

I'd be worried if I was living in a red state in America right now, they're passing laws that are rolling back peoples rights

The issue at the moment is that a democracy can slide into fascism and there are elements in America doing their best to achieve that.

History says eventually they will lose but that doesn't mean they can't do a lot of damage in the mean time

 

[faible]

I'd be worried if I was living in a red state in America right now, they're passing laws that are rolling back peoples rights

The issue at the moment is that a democracy can slide into fascism and there are elements in America doing their best to achieve that.

History says eventually they will lose but that doesn't mean they can't do a lot of damage in the mean time

It's rather bizarre that the people most fixated on removing people's rights are the one's who shout the loudest about small government and freedoms.

I guess they only mean freedoms for them.

 

[TheBigHorne]

I'd be worried if I was living in a red state in America right now, they're passing laws that are rolling back peoples rights

The issue at the moment is that a democracy can slide into fascism and there are elements in America doing their best to achieve that.

History says eventually they will lose but that doesn't mean they can't do a lot of damage in the mean time

Personally I think next federal election they're going to end up with a lot of egg on their faces. They keep talking about shit that to be honest, most people don't care about.

 

[Gralin]

It's rather bizarre that the people most fixated on removing people's rights are the one's who shout the loudest about small government and freedoms.

I guess they only mean freedoms for them.

yeah its cover

its always been freedom for me and not for thee

 

[the_interloper]

Personally I think next federal election they're going to end up with a lot of egg on their faces. They keep talking about s**t that to be honest, most people don't care about.

I tend to agree. Abortion is a divisive issue for sure but it actually doesn't directly affect a lot of Americans, I think it's actually not a priority issue for most when they're voting.

 

[faible]

I tend to agree. Abortion is a divisive issue for sure but it actually doesn't directly affect a lot of Americans, I think it's actually not a priority issue for most when they're voting.

Except for all those leftie young women the Republicans keep complaining about, not knowing what's best for them because they're voting for the Dems.

Yes GOP, it's the young women that are the problem here.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

With the Hogwarts game bringing Rowling back into the spotlight and reading through this thread, I'm curious it seems that many womans who have "objections / concerns" with treating transgender as woman, cite fear and or abuse from men as their reason. This feels pretty flimsy to me but I havent suffered the fear of domestic violence these women seem to have suffered so what do I know. It does seem like it will take an extremely long time (at least a generation or two) where what you identify as will just be taken on face value and to be treated as such. Unfortunately it will only take one person (and there will be one) to set it back decades.

I'll asterisk the above with saying there is really no way a person either born as a man, or that has transitioned to a man can compete against woman at any reasonably high level of sport. It's unfair and unjust to trans people but it's just something that they'll have to deal with. I dont really see it as any different to me being born with a lack of talent, it's just something I was born with that excludes me from playing any decent level of sport.

 

[Ed_Gein]

Couple of questions;

1/ What's the difference between gender dysphoria and something like body dysmorphic disorder? They seem to me like two sides of the same coin, yet one can often be validated with life changing surgery, whilst the other is treated as a mental illness.

2/ Is there any peer reviewed journals written by human biologists on the topic of being able to change from the sex you were born as? Not after anything from fields like psychology or psychiatry, I wonder if there is something grounded in scientific fact.

Cheers.

 

[faible]

2/ Is there any peer reviewed journals written by human biologists on the topic of being able to change from the sex you were born as? Not after anything from fields like psychology or psychiatry, I wonder if there is something grounded in scientific fact.

Sex and Gender are different things. This isn't new, but the terms have (incorrectly) been used interchangeably for a long time.

I've not seen anyone argue that a transgender person has changed their sex. Therefore, a biological perspective wouldn't be relevant.

 

[Chief]

Sex and Gender are different things. This isn't new, but the terms have (incorrectly) been used interchangeably for a long time.

And people with a brain understand that the English language is like that sometimes. Utterly disingenuous to poke around for technical misuse of a word and claim it as proof.

 

[Better Loosen Up]

No I've been pointing out that you're doing the trans panic sex predator thing

So essentially, regardless of how they feel, women just have to "get over it"?

 

[Better Loosen Up]

No you're not, because you're completely disregarding the feelings of trans women.

Can trans women still be sexually attracted to women?

 

[4cunningTonneTruck]

Can trans women still be sexually attracted to women?

 

[Better Loosen Up]

It's a genuine question

 

[mcnulty]

Aside from that, as a trans person I'm not scared. Conservatives on social issues throughout history have been obliterated by time. Whether it be slavery, war civil rights and women's rights they always lose.

Yes and no. But do you think there is a point at which people might baulk at the sheer pace of change and this will provoke a reaction? In America De Santis is going from strength to strength by painting himself as ”anti-woke”. I can see the same happening here. The attitude you’ve expressed here strikes me as very naive, and potentially counter productive. They are going to fight back, and it’s not a given they are going to lose.

 

[TheBigHorne]

Yes and no. But do you think there is a point at which people might baulk at the sheer pace of change and this will provoke a reaction? In America De Santis is going from strength to strength by painting himself as ”anti-woke”. I can see the same happening here. The attitude you’ve expressed here strikes me as very naive, and potentially counter productive. They are going to fight back, and it’s not a given they are going to lose.

Two swallows don't make a summer.

 

[mcnulty]

Two swallows don't make a summer.

That’s an incredibly trite answer to what I was asking. If that perspective represents a large percentage of the progressive left, I fear you’re in for a few shocks.

 

[4cunningTonneTruck]

History says eventually they will lose but that doesn't mean they can't do a lot of damage in the mean time

Unfortunately, I wouldn't be so sure