Travis Cloke

[mdc]

I'd be disappointed to be honest. I think he could be much much better than that.

You'd be disappointed if Cloke turned out as good as Anthony Rocca?

I'd be hugging strangers in the street.

 

[knightwheelrqr]

You'd be disappointed if Cloke turned out as good as Anthony Rocca?

I'd be hugging strangers in the street.

I'm not speaking in terms of volume of goals, I don't see him as a volume type goalkicker. But I see him being a much more significant player in terms of impact he could have on a game.

 

[TradeDraft]

I'm not speaking in terms of volume of goals, I don't see him as a volume type goalkicker. But I see him being a much more significant player in terms of impact he could have on a game.

Like in What Ways?

 

[Pie eyed]

Rocca is so underrated it makes me wonder if some people even watched his career.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

Rocca is so underrated it makes me wonder if some people even watched his career.

Rocca took almost as long as Davis to develop any real form. He was next to useless in his early years. Cloke and Dawes are certainly not behind Rocca in their comparative development. Rocca was so bad that his brother had to go to give Anthony some space to develop. Let's not get too carried away with how good A Rocca could play without giving our current big guys the same chance to realise their potential.

 

[knightwheelrqr]

Like in What Ways?

Think Jonathan Brown/ Wayne Carey/ Nick Riewoldt/ Matthew Pavlich dominant. Don't have to kick 80+ goals a season, but can influence games (although Rocca did this) I would hope that Cloke would be able to develop the consistancy to play at that level of the players listed above over the length of his career.

If I was coaching Cloke I would not want him aspiring to become Anthony Rocca, I think that is shooting too short. I would aim for Nick Riewoldt and see how close we come.

 

[Pie eyed]

Rocca took almost as long as Davis to develop any real form. He was next to useless in his early years. Cloke and Dawes are certainly not behind Rocca in their comparative development. Rocca was so bad that his brother had to go to give Anthony some space to develop. Let's not get too carried away with how good A Rocca could play without giving our current big guys the same chance to realise their potential.

Given my penchant for adjective laden posts on the great man I thought I was considerably restrained.

Really though I don't think pointing out the fact that he was much better than many of the posts portray is not overstating at all.
I did not for instance compare to any greats whatsoever.

 

[mdc]

Rocca took almost as long as Davis to develop any real form.

Rocca had his first good season at 21, and his prime was between 23 and 27. The Davis comparison is totally off. And even in his teenage years he showed obvious talent.

@knightwheelrqr, if you genuinely expect Cloke to reach the heights of any of those players you will be bitterly disappointed.

 

[knightwheelrqr]

Rocca had his first good season at 21, and his prime was between 23 and 27. The Davis comparison is totally off. And even in his teenage years he showed obvious talent.

@knightwheelrqr, if you genuinely expect Cloke to reach the heights of any of those players you will be bitterly disappointed.

He is still only 22, so I would hope he becomes elite for his position. I would hope he comes very close over the span of his career.

Anyone who can win a B+F in a finals quality team at the age of 20 should have the ability to come close to developing to that level, and I hope he hasn't given up on becomming that good, and I also hope the club hasn't given up hope that he will become that good either.

I can see him becomming a 15-20 touch, 8-10 mark per game, 2 goal a game player. Which would be right up there if he can hold figures like that over an extended period. See his career lasting 7-10 years more, if he can hold those figures for 6+ seasons he would be doing well.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

Yes, but the problem is that once opposition coaches put a quick mid-sized defender on him, that advantage evaporates and Cloke tends to disappear.

I don't think he should play deep all the time, but he does need to learn to exploit the match-up. When he has a Bock or similar playing on him, he should do what he does and lead hard and long. But when he has a Patfull or a Hargraves on him, he needs to double back and make himself a strong target inside 50 to exploit his height/weight. He'll never be able to outrun these guys.

This comment best summarises Cloke's problem. In a 2007 game, he kicked 4 goals on Taylor of Geelong. In 2009, he was soundly beaten by the same player. He needs to recapture his early form or play a different style to try and counter the advantage the quick CHBs are gaining over him. And, yes, he does have slow reflexes and take an eternity to dispose the ball at times.

 

[doppleganger]

Cloke is an interesting case.

He is clearly a quality player....duds dont win BnF at 20, and play a brilliant finals series at CHF.

He has stagnated though, which would have to be just a confidence issue.

In terms of his long term position...it really depends on the make up of the team.

If we try and use Rusling, then Trav would most likely continue to play high up the ground.

If Dawes or Fraser are played up forward, then Trav will be able to spend more time deep, and rotate with the other bloke between playing the lead up role.

He is a quality kid and have plenty of faith that he will come good.

 

[TradeDraft]

Cloke is an interesting case.

He is clearly a quality player....duds dont win BnF at 20, and play a brilliant finals series at CHF.

He has stagnated though, which would have to be just a confidence issue.

In terms of his long term position...it really depends on the make up of the team.

If we try and use Rusling, then Trav would most likely continue to play high up the ground.

If Dawes or Fraser are played up forward, then Trav will be able to spend more time deep, and rotate with the other bloke between playing the lead up role.

He is a quality kid and have plenty of faith that he will come good.

Yeah, After he won the Copeland you think he could become an Elite CHF but has Gone Backwards

Loved his Finals in the 2007 Season

 

[spartan-magpie]

Rocca is so underrated it makes me wonder if some people even watched his career.

couldnt agree more with this statement.. Rocca was a pillar for the pies..
anyone disputing this should find the great nathan buckley and ask him why its true...

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

Rocca's importance to the team was never more highlighted than in the 2003 (?) grand final when he was suspended from the prelim final. Collingwood had no chance of winning from the moment the suspension was announced (even more so when J Cloke lined up at CHF. I had some wild hope that Tristan Walker might play like his physique suggested he should, but alas, no).

Let us remember that Rocca had many really ordinary games amongst the good ones, particularly when he played with an injury. When he was bad he could be really bad. Cloke is more workmanlike and mobile than Rocca, but Rocca was certainly the more skillful player of the two and more powerful and agile in traffic. Time will tell who plays the more effective role for the team.

With Cloke's knee restricting his training already this pre-season, I am starting to think in terms of N Brown playing CHF in the NAB Cup at least. We cannot play Presti, Brown and Reid together in defence, so if Cloke is lacking in fitness and carrying an injury and the other 3 are firing, his loss may not be too dramatic. Or Brown at FF, Dawes at CHF.

I would rather see these kind of structures experimented with rather than watch Cloke go through the motions for another season. If necessary, play him in the VFL and let him fight for his place in the team. Hopefully, the other big guys will all be that much better in 2010 and we won't be so reliant on Cloke's form and fitness.

 

[knightwheelrqr]

Rocca's importance to the team was never more highlighted than in the 2003 (?) grand final when he was suspended from the prelim final. Collingwood had no chance of winning from the moment the suspension was announced (even more so when J Cloke lined up at CHF. I had some wild hope that Tristan Walker might play like his physique suggested he should, but alas, no).

Let us remember that Rocca had many really ordinary games amongst the good ones, particularly when he played with an injury. When he was bad he could be really bad. Cloke is more workmanlike and mobile than Rocca, but Rocca was certainly the more skillful player of the two and more powerful and agile in traffic. Time will tell who plays the more effective role for the team.

With Cloke's knee restricting his training already this pre-season, I am starting to think in terms of N Brown playing CHF in the NAB Cup at least. We cannot play Presti, Brown and Reid together in defence, so if Cloke is lacking in fitness and carrying an injury and the other 3 are firing, his loss may not be too dramatic. Or Brown at FF, Dawes at CHF.

I would rather see these kind of structures experimented with rather than watch Cloke go through the motions for another season. If necessary, play him in the VFL and let him fight for his place in the team. Hopefully, the other big guys will all be that much better in 2010 and we won't be so reliant on Cloke's form and fitness.

Reid and Brown are much better down back. Would not play Nathan Brown up forward when there are better options in: Cloke, JA, Rusling and even Fraser (though would be more suited as a flanker) would all be much better options than Nathan Brown up forward.

To fit both Reid and Brown down back it could be achieved by having Reid play as a tall back flanker or a sweeper. His disposal is first rate, has the pace and would be able to play on medium or tall backman. So if we wanted to we certainly could fit both in the same side if they were both deemed to be in our best 22.

Cloke when unfit is still better than Dawes/ Brown. He should get his form and fitness back as the season progresses and I would still expect him to have a productive season.

On Cloke though. He is only a 22 year old. Already he is very much compairable with Rocca whos career is over. So for a 22 year old KPP he is already excellent. At 22 most KPPs are just breaking into their respective sides now and starting to try to make a name for themselves.