Travis Cloke

[danielnajdek]

How about cloke running up on the wings, jack about 40-50 metres out and Dawes in the goal square leading out?

 

[collingwill]

cloke shouldve been moved to deep FF in the Adelaide final IMO, jack had 2/3 against him every time and was outmarked most of the time, trav wouldve at least made a contest to bring the ball to ground at the very least.

cloke suffers from nerves close to goal IMO, that goes for his kicking and marking, theres only one way to fix that, and thats to give him more time closer to goal, if he gets his direct opponant one on one is anyone going to bet against him? i dont care if its scarlet or lake at FB, they'd both find cloke a handfull IMO, id try Macaffa as a lead up HF this year and give the fwd 50 to cloke, jack, leon, medhurst, lockyer, rotating

 

[Optimax]

Caff as the lead up forward?

How often do 180 odd cm players take contested marks?

 

[Quicky]

Simply needs to play a deeper role. I don't see the point in playing a guy who is one of our worst field kicks in the side up the ground. Then we can move on to the fact he lacks creativity and intelligence with his disposal. He rarely lowers his eyes, instead just bombing the ball as far as he can.

I can deal with him playing a role up on the wing if he handballs the ball off to a skillful player running past (Didak, Davis etc). Sadly he doesn't do this, in fact he does the opposite and actually ignores players running past. On occasions he has actually been the guy running past for the handball receive after a team mate has marked the ball....it baffles me that Malthouse allows this to happen. Honestly have no idea why he doesn't put a stop to it.

If he's played deeper, he can play a simpler style of game, and hopefully if he takes enough shots inside the 50, he'll improve the set shot aspect of his game. At the moment a KP forward going into his 6th year (I think) to be as poor as he is in front of goals is inexcusable.

I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, because he had a shocking 2009 off the field. His development has been absurd to say the elast though. Peaking in his third year, and gradually falling away for the next two years is unheard of for a young KP forward really.

Basically, he won't ever be a dominant player up the ground, he doesn't have the skills or intelligence. If we're going to get the best out of him, it'll be as a deeper forward.

Smiddaz wins. He needs to be utilised differently. He was second overall at the club for inside 50's last year (95 all up) which is ridiculous for such a poor field kick. We need him played deeper even if that means we feel some 'Mooney style' goal kicking pain in the process. Just get him to continue redeveloping his kicking style even if it takes years. On the OP about his core strength I don't think that is a problem. At times last year he hit good form and when he did he was taking contested marks and out bodying his opponent. I don't think it's an issue of strength or contested marking with Cloke but a confidence thing. The three things I think he needs to do to get back to his best are: Play deeper, regain confidence, fix goalkicking. I think it boils down to that. Oh and learn to deal with more agile opponents.

 

[TradeDraft]

Dawes just doesn't look like an AFL player to me, in my mind you just can't be an AFL forward unless you can mark over head.

So you are saying that Dawes is just a List Clogger because he Struggles overhead. I think he has Improved over the last 2 years and I think he could still be a Average Overhead Mark and Can be okay in that Area.

Still think he deserves his Chance this season and if he does not show much he will be put up for Trade but not De-Listed

 

[TradeDraft]

1. Dawes is shit overhead
2. It cramps Anthony for room
3. Cloke is a terrible set shot and although he improved marginally late last year I'm happier with Anthony
4. If we are playing another deep forward with Anthony rusling and Fraser will be preferred
5. Trav won a copeland at chf as a big bodied physical super fit runner
6. Dawes is rather soft in marking contests


That sums it up

So you are saying Dawes is a Draft Bust and we should of Drafted Tippett at pick 29?

 

[swiftdog]

Smiddaz wins. He needs to be utilised differently. He was second overall at the club for inside 50's last year (95 all up) which is ridiculous for such a poor field kick. We need him played deeper even if that means we feel some 'Mooney style' goal kicking pain in the process. Just get him to continue redeveloping his kicking style even if it takes years. On the OP about his core strength I don't think that is a problem. At times last year he hit good form and when he did he was taking contested marks and out bodying his opponent. I don't think it's an issue of strength or contested marking with Cloke but a confidence thing. The three things I think he needs to do to get back to his best are: Play deeper, regain confidence, fix goalkicking. I think it boils down to that. Oh and learn to deal with more agile opponents.

The problem is, historically, players don't improve their goalkicking by much if at all. How long did we wait for Tarrant to improve his goalkicking and it never happened? If we're going to play Cloke deep he'll be our number 1 go-to target. If our number 1 target can't kick goals then we're screwed. It's much easier for a player to improve decision making and football nous as he matures, kicking technique is more-or-less set in stone by the time most players reach AFL level.

Play him up the ground (where he won a Copeland) and hope like hell that Dawes and/or Rusling become AFL calibre players. They don't even need to become great key forwards as we have good enough small/mid forwards + Jack to kick us winning scores, we just need a target who can take a grab.

 

[collingwill]

Caff as the lead up forward?

How often do 180 odd cm players take contested marks?

he has good hands and good speed, do you think the opposition would put a key defender on him? he would need a good tank though to play that position, im not saying use him as a traditional CHF, just as a leading option through the wings, pretty much what trav does now and what tarrant used to do, travs wasted in that role IMO.

he's also closer to 190cm than 180.

 

[Optimax]

So you are saying Dawes is a Draft Bust and we should of Drafted Tippett at pick 29?

In hindsight yes we should have drafted tippett

I just find it amusing cloke with runs on the board gets serially under rated compared to Dawes who even you would agree has done sweet fa in the seniors and only been ok to good in the seconds.

I like Dawes Dave and generally im quite optimistic but he needs to improve, draft bust too early to say but he needs improvment in the playing like his body size says he should, and I'd say Chris would admit to that

 

[TradeDraft]

In hindsight yes we should have drafted tippett

I just find it amusing cloke with runs on the board gets serially under rated compared to Dawes who even you would agree has done sweet fa in the seniors and only been ok to good in the seconds.

I like Dawes Dave and generally im quite optimistic but he needs to improve, draft bust too early to say but he needs improvment in the playing like his body size says he should, and I'd say Chris would admit to that

I think he had a Few Good Games in 2008 when he was called up but I do agree he does still need improvement and hopefully with bucks coaching the Forwards he can really improve under him

 

[Heater39]

Whats with the Cloke is a poor field kick so he should be played closer to goal thinking? He has one of the worst set shots in the AFL and Anthony has one of the best, it doesn't add up. Cloke also seems to struggle taking contested marks, block up his space inside the 50 and he will struggle. His strength is using his big engine to get up the field and take marks on the lead.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

Couldn't agree more with zcloke playing a deeper role, i think his best games for the pies was when he's played deeper. But, then we have to find a new player to play the hit up role for the boys coming out of defence. Our forward line set-up should be very interesting this year. I could see N.Brown pinch hitting a bit this year.

Play Chris Dawes at CHF and Cloke at FF with JA in the pocket. Cloke always looked a better player with Dawes in the side. Otherwise, N Brown could be experimented with as a CHF. Either way, a second big player in the forward line with Cloke playing deep in the forward line is the way to get the best out of Cloke. JA is not going to cut it as a permanent FF.

 

[TradeDraft]

Play Chris Dawes at CHF and Cloke at FF with JA in the pocket. Cloke always looked a better player with Dawes in the side. Otherwise, N Brown could be experimented with as a CHF. Either way, a second big player in the forward line with Cloke playing deep in the forward line is the way to get the best out of Cloke. JA is not going to cut it as a permanent FF.

Agree Cloke's best game was when he had Dawes and Anthony along side Cloke

 

[collingwill]

Play Chris Dawes at CHF and Cloke at FF with JA in the pocket. Cloke always looked a better player with Dawes in the side. Otherwise, N Brown could be experimented with as a CHF. Either way, a second big player in the forward line with Cloke playing deep in the forward line is the way to get the best out of Cloke. JA is not going to cut it as a permanent FF.

based on what? the guys played one full season at FF and kicked 50 goals, if he cut it last year he'll cut it again this year and beyond, he's a perfect FF IMO, great kick for goal, good hands and is underated one on one, times his leads well too IMO, he's only going to get stronger. very strange opinion IMO.

he was tripple teamed against the crows most of the night in the final, sure he didnt play well in the other finals but he was far from alone there.

 

[hellfire]

So you are saying Dawes is a Draft Bust and we should of Drafted Tippett at pick 29?

No offence to Dawesy, but IF ONLY.

 

[mdc]

Whats with the Cloke is a poor field kick so he should be played closer to goal thinking? He has one of the worst set shots in the AFL and Anthony has one of the best, it doesn't add up. Cloke also seems to struggle taking contested marks, block up his space inside the 50 and he will struggle. His strength is using his big engine to get up the field and take marks on the lead.

Yes, but the problem is that once opposition coaches put a quick mid-sized defender on him, that advantage evaporates and Cloke tends to disappear.

I don't think he should play deep all the time, but he does need to learn to exploit the match-up. When he has a Bock or similar playing on him, he should do what he does and lead hard and long. But when he has a Patfull or a Hargraves on him, he needs to double back and make himself a strong target inside 50 to exploit his height/weight. He'll never be able to outrun these guys.

 

[knightwheelrqr]

So from what you all are suggesting we will line up something like this:

F: Jack Anthony Travis Cloke Leon Davis
HF: Paul Medhurst Josh Fraser Alan Didak

*I added Josh Fraser as he has the ability to work further up the ground, doesn't have to play as a traditional centre half forward, but with the vacancy made with Cloke going deeper it makes sense to me if I was coaching to a structure like you all are suggesting*

To be honest I don't mind it and it would be a good preseason experiment.

 

[knightwheelrqr]

On Cloke though I'm really surprised people don't recognise his lack of agility or very poor reflexes (too fumbly and slow). I would consider these areas for improvement to be as important for his continued development as his goalkicking. Would rather him turn into a more Lance Franklin type figure than an Anthony Rocca type figure to be honest.

 

[Pie eyed]

On Cloke though I'm really surprised people don't recognise his lack of agility or very poor reflexes (too fumbly and slow). I would consider these areas for improvement to be as important for his continued development as his goalkicking. Would rather him turn into a more Lance Franklin type figure than an Anthony Rocca type figure to be honest.

When Cloke get the ball on a lead and just wheels around and slots it from 50...that's when he is at he best.
He spent last season second guessing himself. Maybe he was insructed to look for options, but he definitely looks far better when he just gets the ball and has a shot all in the one motion.

 

[smiddaz123]

On Cloke though I'm really surprised people don't recognise his lack of agility or very poor reflexes (too fumbly and slow). I would consider these areas for improvement to be as important for his continued development as his goalkicking. Would rather him turn into a more Lance Franklin type figure than an Anthony Rocca type figure to be honest.

If Cloke turns into Rocca of 2002/2003, we'll be doing superbly.

 

[Bay Pie]

Agree, with the hope of playing him deep, not the high lead up player.

He is a good strong contested grab, and much more dangerous when deeper. He will require double teaming if played deep, freeing up others. He'll get more shots on goal and hopefully, allows him to improve his accuracy.

He is too easily spoiled by a smaller more mobile player when playing his lead up role.

This could come about by chance, if his fitness is down compared to the past, due to his knee injury.

 

[Return of the Pies]

Cloke could at best play FF with the right match-up, but generally speaking doesn't have the agility and explosiveness to play the position permanently. His go is getting into space on the lead or a 1 on 1 contest - he doesn't take many pack grabs.

I completely disagree with Fraser as an option at CHF or FF, his contested marking is below par for his size and most decent KPDs would eat him alive. His only chance as a forward would be roaming HFF but even then an attacking HBF could really expose him going the other way.

It has to be Trav at CHF, Anthony at FF, then if a 3rd tall is required (not always, but dependent on match-ups), Rusling, Dawes or occasionally a ruckman could also play deep.

 

[knightwheelrqr]

If Cloke turns into Rocca of 2002/2003, we'll be doing superbly.

I'd be disappointed to be honest. I think he could be much much better than that. Rocca was too slow and stagnant, Cloke I hope will develop some agility and get better reflexes as well as having size to become a dominant forward as opposed to a big forward who only pops up every now and then.

 

[wicksy]

TD is not common...lol

LOL I thought i'd shot back into the 1500's there for a second....
At least he didn't call him "Peasant Trade Draft"

 

[knightwheelrqr]

How about McNamara CHF, Cloke FF?

F: JA Cloke Davis
HF: Medhurst McNamara Didak
Rotation: Thomas, Fraser, Lockyer
EMG (Could play): Rusling, Macaffer, Dick (when back).

Could be a nice forward structure.

And don't be surprised if McNamara breaks into the side this season. Got a good feeling about him. Has all the athletic attributes, mature age, and his skills are not bad all things considered. I think he would be much more suited as a Centre Half Forward than a Full Forward, although he could play either.

Just playing around with ideas for the forward structure, but can see this type of structure happening.