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Travis Cloke

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knightwheelrqr

knightwheelrqr

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Been having a discussion of late about what would make Cloke a dominant forward.

Many of us have identified for us to take another step forward towards winning a premiership Cloke will have to become a dominant forward.

The areas I think he needs to work on are: Agility, lateral quickness, his marking (he has the size but should still become a stronger contested and overhead mark), more strength through the hips and waist (as he currently drops right away when getting tackled) and most importantly his reflexes (just doesn't react quick enough and can't make quick decisions or ever get a quick handball off when he needs to).

Some people say that he should add some more size, but I would argue that he has more than enough size already and that instead he should be working more on these areas I outlined above.

*Changing goal kicking technique and improving it is a progressive thing that takes time to change, I'm particularly focusing on specific areas which he may not be working on as much as he should that would lead to the greatest improvements in his game.*

Thoughts?
 
TradeDraft said:
At his best he is a Dominate Player but he needs to be more Accurate shot at goal
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Common Trade Draft. Be more observant now. That just sounds like a regurgitated response. He needs more than that to become a dominant forward.
 
Simply needs to play a deeper role. I don't see the point in playing a guy who is one of our worst field kicks in the side up the ground. Then we can move on to the fact he lacks creativity and intelligence with his disposal. He rarely lowers his eyes, instead just bombing the ball as far as he can.

I can deal with him playing a role up on the wing if he handballs the ball off to a skillful player running past (Didak, Davis etc). Sadly he doesn't do this, in fact he does the opposite and actually ignores players running past. On occasions he has actually been the guy running past for the handball receive after a team mate has marked the ball....it baffles me that Malthouse allows this to happen. Honestly have no idea why he doesn't put a stop to it.

If he's played deeper, he can play a simpler style of game, and hopefully if he takes enough shots inside the 50, he'll improve the set shot aspect of his game. At the moment a KP forward going into his 6th year (I think) to be as poor as he is in front of goals is inexcusable.

I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, because he had a shocking 2009 off the field. His development has been absurd to say the elast though. Peaking in his third year, and gradually falling away for the next two years is unheard of for a young KP forward really.

Basically, he won't ever be a dominant player up the ground, he doesn't have the skills or intelligence. If we're going to get the best out of him, it'll be as a deeper forward.
 

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Couldn't agree more with zcloke playing a deeper role, i think his best games for the pies was when he's played deeper. But, then we have to find a new player to play the hit up role for the boys coming out of defence. Our forward line set-up should be very interesting this year. I could see N.Brown pinch hitting a bit this year.
 
been my thoughts also for a long time, play him deep.
when he pushes up and marks on the wing, he usually wastes the footy, or slows momentum, we need to encourage the mids, flankers to run harder to carry the ball thru the wing enabling cloke to get the ball in a deeper position.
people will say his strength is his tank, true but multiple repeat efforts inside forward 50 should be his bag.
 
I'm a great fan of all the Clokes and I want young Trav to become a star. I don;t think he's very far off: he has the body and the abilities to be absolute boss of our forward line.

Stating the obvious he needs confidence.

His decision making this year was bad, and he was reacting to the ball coming toward him ijn a very tentative way.

Occasionally he would lose his temper a bit and claw at the ball and those were his best passages of play: when he wasn't over-thinking it, just grabbing it and doing something quick/instinctive.

Tellingly he bagged a couple of massive 50m goals when it mattered (including in a final IIRC): when the crunch was well and truly on, he knows what to do: we saw that in spades in the 2007 finals where he wrote his name in as a finals performer.

This year the moment he went looking for his play book he lost faith in himself and jagged kicks, missed gettable marks, chose strange passing options etc. The workaday stuff slipped his grasp, its like he couldn't stomach the bread and butter.

If he could work on the kicking it would help, but I feel he has been for some time and his innaccuracy has been more about confidence than technique.

He already has the weight, strength, endurance (A+ here), hands (both for the contested mark and on the deck) and some of the instincts he needs.

He's a fine long kick and a murderously good pass of the ball, by hand and even more so by foot. He is fearless in putting himself into packs and wearing hits.

He could definitely use a bit more killer instinct, he rarely hurts opponents who get in his way and never tries to (quite unlike his combative bros there, who are hard nuts both with a biffing gene in the DNA). I'm not saying become a murderer, just allow momentum to do its work if the third man cuts across too often.

Confidence and consistency are lacking: he tries consistently (I think the kid has a massive heart), he just doesn't deliver consistently.

I reckon he will put recent unsettling events behind him, and with a bit more maturity he'll keep working on his great strengths and few weaknesses to become a dominant player.

[edit] reflecting on the posts above, he could play deeper with his ace passing, but our system runs players through a variety of spots from the pocket up the flanks and out to the wing (and occasionally even into true CHF). I think his height, reach and one-on-one doggedness would make him a killer CHB in pinch. On ounce of confidence would see him outmarking many current KP forwards.
 
knightwheelrqr said:
The areas I think he needs to work on are: Agility, lateral quickness, his marking (he has the size but should still become a stronger contested and overhead mark), more strength through the hips and waist (as he currently drops right away when getting tackled) and most importantly his reflexes (just doesn't react quick enough and can't make quick decisions or ever get a quick handball off when he needs to).
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His ability to stand up in or shrug off a tackle is one of his strengths IMO. I remember being impressed a number of times during the course of 2009 at his ability to get rid of a tackler or fight through a tackle. He's also a very good tackler for a big man as well - once he latches on, the opposition player isn't going anywhere.
 
Dominant Forward? WTF?

The bloke won a Copeland Trophy and performed his arse off as a CHF in the 07 season, I think that proves he has what it takes to be a dominant forward.

Not all "dominant forwards" are prolific goalkickers, some, and especially CHF's, don't solely rely on their scoring ability to become a strong, consistent forward.

Personally, I think the training staff and Cloke should be repeatedly watching tapes of what he was doing right in the 07 season, because over the last 2 seasons, he has struggled to re capture that form.

The answer to Cloke's resurgence is definitely not to drop him "deeper" inside 50, he would be wasted as his accuracy is woeful.

Jack has the goalsquare to himself, with help from Fraser, Dawes, Medhurst etc this year.

He has been a dominant forward before, and hopefully he can get back to that again.
 
mattys123 said:
The answer to Cloke's resurgence is definitely not to drop him "deeper" inside 50, he would be wasted as his accuracy is woeful.
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And he doesn't need accuracy up the ground? Would you rather him turning it over on the wing/half forward line?
Also, despite winning the Copeland, he wasn't a dominant forward of the AFL. His 2007 season wasn't anything on what someone like Riewoldt or Brown does. They're a truly dominant forward. In 2007, Cloke was just a very good player. He didn't dominate many games by himself.
 
smiddaz123 said:
And he doesn't need accuracy up the ground? Would you rather him turning it over on the wing/half forward line?
Also, despite winning the Copeland, he wasn't a dominant forward of the AFL. His 2007 season wasn't anything on what someone like Riewoldt or Brown does. They're a truly dominant forward. In 2007, Cloke was just a very good player. He didn't dominate many games by himself.
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No he doesn't need accuracy up the ground, because his field kicking is actually quite good, just like the majority of shots at goal he has on the run are more accurate then his set shots.

Travis Cloke will never be as good or the type of player you and some here want him to be, all he can be is the best he can, which is his 2007 form.

If he is able to re capture that form, we will go a long way this year.

Cloke is important, but I still believe we can win a flag with or without him at his absolute peak, but we will still need him to be "good enough" to hold down the CHF position, because god knows we have no one else on our entire list capable of playing the position. (And that includes Dawes or Fraser).
 

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mattys123 said:
No he doesn't need accuracy up the ground, because his field kicking is actually quite good
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His field kicking is average, and made worse by the fact he makes poor decisions and lacks intelligence when he has it. It isn't close to good.

mattys123 said:
Travis Cloke will never be as good or the type of player you and some here want him to be, all he can be is the best he can, which is his 2007 form.
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And you think that his 2007 form was that of a dominant AFL player? Like I said, it was a good season, but wasn't close to dominant.
 
smiddaz123 said:
Simply needs to play a deeper role. I don't see the point in playing a guy who is one of our worst field kicks in the side up the ground. Then we can move on to the fact he lacks creativity and intelligence with his disposal. He rarely lowers his eyes, instead just bombing the ball as far as he can.

I can deal with him playing a role up on the wing if he handballs the ball off to a skillful player running past (Didak, Davis etc). Sadly he doesn't do this, in fact he does the opposite and actually ignores players running past. On occasions he has actually been the guy running past for the handball receive after a team mate has marked the ball....it baffles me that Malthouse allows this to happen. Honestly have no idea why he doesn't put a stop to it.

If he's played deeper, he can play a simpler style of game, and hopefully if he takes enough shots inside the 50, he'll improve the set shot aspect of his game. At the moment a KP forward going into his 6th year (I think) to be as poor as he is in front of goals is inexcusable.

I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, because he had a shocking 2009 off the field. His development has been absurd to say the elast though. Peaking in his third year, and gradually falling away for the next two years is unheard of for a young KP forward really.

Basically, he won't ever be a dominant player up the ground, he doesn't have the skills or intelligence. If we're going to get the best out of him, it'll be as a deeper forward.
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Agreed, his field kicking is detrimental to the team more often than not. I believe Dawes would be a better option further up the ground, if he can improve on certain aspects in his game.
 
Brent24 said:
Agreed, his field kicking is detrimental to the team more often than not. I believe Dawes would be a better option further up the ground, if he can improve on certain aspects in his game.
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Yep, and I want to win tattslotto, but that aint going to happen either.

Dawes just doesn't look like an AFL player to me, in my mind you just can't be an AFL forward unless you can mark over head.

My hope is for Rusling or Fraser to take over and assist Cloke and Anthony in 2010 and beyond.

I don't see Cloke or Anthony as a "problem" at all anyway, I see them as the only 2 reliable forward options we have, what we need to find is someone to help the both of them out against the top teams, as Jack has been beaten soundly by Scarlett and Lake, but only because he has solely been left to carry the "weight" inside 50.

Cloke and Anthony need help, they will improve/recover form I am confident of that.
 
His decision-making first and foremost needs major improvement. If he improves this he can be a very very good CHF leading up the ground. His field-kicking is good enough but his goalkicking is atrocious, no point in playing him as a deep target if he can't finish off the work of the mids. We really need one of Dawes or Rusling to come on or we're in a bit of strife.
 

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I agree with Matty, deeper is not the answer.

If he is played deeper, then he gets in the way of (or replaces even) blokes who can kcik straight and need less ball to kick goals.

Also one of Cloke's strengths is he works so hard that his opponents cannot keep up with him - he is a very good lead up forward. He needs space to keep working in, which he will only get through the CHF role and working up to the wings.

I agree with Smiddaz that he needs to stop bombing it long all the time, but the fact is his goal kicking hurts us more than his field kicking. I would be pushing him away from goals whereever possible.
 
daics cousin said:
What about playing Cloke deeper in the forwrad line Anthony in a pocket and give Chris DAWES a go at CHF ?
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1. Dawes is shit overhead
2. It cramps Anthony for room
3. Cloke is a terrible set shot and although he improved marginally late last year I'm happier with Anthony
4. If we are playing another deep forward with Anthony rusling and Fraser will be preferred
5. Trav won a copeland at chf as a big bodied physical super fit runner
6. Dawes is rather soft in marking contests


That sums it up
 

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