umpring and the eagles

[ah_19]

Quote by Sandy in different topic
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What about softest supporters.
I vote weagles, always sooking they lost the game because of the mean umpires.
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Statistically we have a RIGHT to complain, and nobody can say a damn thing about it

One of the stats the afl does is the umpiring decision stats, per round
now in 99 or 98 i cant remember what season it was, the eagles were the team screwed the most by the umpires,

they had the most kicks awarded against them that should not have been awarded, and missed out on the most free kicks that they should have gotten.

Now you may think its gotta be someone
but they did it on a round by round basis

and in EVERY round, all 22 of them, the eagles came off worst in terms of treatment by the umpires, and if they didnt give the eagles 5 free kicks every time they were loosing, had about 2 min left and no chance of winning, at half back, it would have been worse.

now statistically if the umpires arent biased
using probobility and saying it just "happened" and its based on luck

the odds are

16^22 is approx
309485009800000000000000000 to 1
this is the chance of it being bad luck

the odds of winning lotto are
approx
8200000 to 1

so youre
37742074370000000000 times more likely to win lotto than to be correct in saying we have nothing the umpires arent biased towards to eagles.

i dont know about the other years, but im guessing that if the umpires dont like us that the pattern would continue.

statistically dont have a right to complain?
now if you can come up with a reason why we cant complain, i would LOVE to hear it. i need a laugh.

 

[jod23]

To all those people who think Eagles supporters whine about umpires..dont look at me. I challenge anyone to look through the archives and find one post where i complained about umpires. I never have and i never will. If we lose its cos we werent the better team on the day.

 

[Frodo]

There seems to be some idiotic culture that says umpires can't have any blame apportioned for their often unfair actions.
I do not go with this culture and it is sad that anyone else does because the umpires have the power to directly and deliberately affect the outcome of games.
It is not only the decisions or non decisions against a side that make impact but the pre-determined strength of the umpiring during a game that has huge effect.
I well remember hearing of one match the Eagles played in Victoria against a lowly side where the umpires had been 'instructed' to let the game 'flow'. The Eagles opponents clearly knew of this instruction and from the beginning of the game took Eagles players out on and off the ball with hardly a whistle sounding. The injuries and bruising of that encounter finished the Eagles for the season.
The point is that 'instructions' came from above! Umpires need to be consistant week in and week out, if they are instructed to do otherwise what chance is there of consistancy.
When the quasi bankrupt VFL changed to the AFL with the introduction of a few Interstate sides it was never seriously believed that the flag would be taken outside of Victoria. The rules of home finals and the travel would surely mean there was no chance of it. But the Eagles not only won one flag but 2 in the first 4 years of the new competition. That could not be allowed to happen again. The weapon to ensure this was the umpires. It is rare to see the Eagles get a soft free but commonplace to see their opponents get one. Often a string of bad decisions over five minutes breaks the flow of a game. It may be tight but two or three free kicks in the third quarter in forward areas can push out a three goal lead that forces the Eagles into catch up footy.
The fourth quarter, with the Eagles losing comfortably, will always see a string of soft decisions in the centre of the ground given to the Eagles to level up the stats.
It's okay for other teams to scoff, when they don't have to put up with it every week and I can understand those who just accept it as the Eagles 'lot' knowing that mentioning it will result in getting bagged by other forum members.

And the real umpire feast for Victorians is the local derby. Whoa, this is the Roman arena umpiring scenario where they can sit back and watch two interstate sides kick the crap out of each other to the delight of many Vics.

ps I am not a race horse or hand reared calf

 

[greggo]

Every team in the comp has supporters that blame the umpires for everything, sometimes even the weather. There is this guy that sits two rows behind me at Subi who doesn’t seem to support any team in general, he just comes to the games and rants at the unpires.

Maybe it is an aussie tradition to not respect authority figures.

 

[Mudholian]

Could you post one bit of evidence that says one particular team has been targetted to be handicapped by deliberate cheating enacted by every umpire en masse according to deliberate policy directives from "above"?

Could it be a load of Crap?

Mud

 

[sandie]

Mud
Frodo said it so it must be true, why would you want proof.

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[This message has been edited by sandie (edited 01 March 2001).]

[This message has been edited by sandie (edited 01 March 2001).]

 

[BUBBALOUIS]

Is it true!!! Umpires gang up on West Coast !!!!! My God, ive only got one thing to say if that is a proven fact...........

Well done Giesch and the boys, screw 'em boys, keep them at the bottom of the pile. Three Cheers and all that

 

[Arch]

and where did these stats come from "ah19"??? sounds like crap to me. You trying to tell us that for an entire 22 rounds over (either 98 or 99 you're not quite sure- which makes what you say lose even more credibility) the eagles had the most frees that should've been paid- not paid to them, and more frees paid against them, that shouldnt have been. What bollocks.
Id also like to know if the AFL now publishes the offical umpiring f*ck ups, where they count how many bad decisions and how many bad- NON-decisions each team recieved or didnt receive, as well as every ACTUAL decision.

I guess you got that one out of the "Offical Eagles Fans Excuse" book, that they hand out with memberships.

 

[Shinboners]

Sure, the free kick count may not favour the Eagles, but how many of those were due to bad or incorrect decisions? The raw numbers don't say anything.

It's a fact of life that some clubs have trained their players to tackle, spoil, or dispose of the ball properly whenever there is a situation where a free kick could be paid. It's also a fact of life that there are some players who have the ability to milk a free kick from the umpires (hello Wanganeen, and now that he's no longer at North, I can admit that Bell was pretty good at it too) while others don't get the ones they deserve (any full forward who has Silvagni playing on him).

In the end though, free kicks alone aren't the reason why the Eagles have performed poorly in recent years.

 

[Shinboners]

Originally posted by Arch:
I guess you got that one out of the "Offical Eagles Fans Excuse" book, that they hand out with memberships.

Yep. I still chuckle about that Eagles fan who reckoned the reason why North beat the Eagles in Perth last year was because the umpires refused to ping Brent Harvey for throwing the ball. Yeah...right....sort of explains the 10 goal margin, doesn't it?

 

[Eagle_Fan]

GGGGGRRRRROOOOOOAAAAANNNNNN!!!!!

I'm with Jod

(Sandie & Arch- don't generalise! If I -and some of the other eagle people- are soft supporters, then surely you're both teenage bandwagoners -right?

)

 

[sandie]

Originally posted by Eagle_Fan:
GGGGGRRRRROOOOOOAAAAANNNNNN!!!!!

I'm with Jod

(Sandie & Arch- don't generalise! If I -and some of the other eagle people- are soft supporters, then surely you're both teenage bandwagoners -right?

)

Eagle Fan
You know that Arch & I are only referring to the above twits who keep bringing up the umpiring. I know that a lot of supporters are like you & disagree with people like frodo's views.
Cheers



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mantis

 

[Eagle_Fan]

then say that.

 

[ah_19]

if you want us to shut up
disprove it
and for someone who said prove it, i just did, read the first post, its called mathematics,
here is the Hypothesis
Ho: the eagles are treated unfairly
Proboboliity of this being true, 99.9999999%
by the stats up there, in maths in real life situations 99% is considered the region of truth, if youre wtihing a 99% probobility rating, the hypothesis is true
thus its true,
personally i dont complain publickly unless someone else like sandie tries to bag us for it


for the people who replied, unless you can counter the logic of my argument, shut up, because obviously if you cant say that the maths i did was wrong, then i was right

win fairly

 

[Visro]

Well i got lost in that first post by ah_19.....I think though that it was said somewhere official, that that WC had the worst umpiring directed at them. Cant be helped...just means we have to play better. I dont think I've ever said that it was the umps fault have I? Except for that last game with the Matera free kick.....bloody umpires, always disadvantaging us

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I was put on this Earth to complete a certain number of tasks. I am so far behind, I will never die...

 

[RogerC]

ah_19, it must have been 99. I do remember that kind of thing being printed up in a newspaper somewhere early last year. I'm not going to dispute your figures just yet, but I'd love to know where you got them from. What we're talking about is what are generally considered to be umpiring mistakes - frees not given or frees given when they shouldn't have been. There was a lot of talk early last year about umpires needing to improve their game, and the basis for this claim was the figures you are no doubt quoting.

Of course now the trend is to protect the umpires further, by giving them the power to penalise players for disputing their decisions. Surely this will entrench mediocrity, won't it? It's like saying, "we know the umpires aren't very good, but we'd appreciate you not pointing it out." And the Ansett Cup has also reinforced the push towards umpires taking a literal approach to decisions. When so many decisions are borderline (holding the man/holding the ball, holding the ball/too high, holding the man/dropping the ball, etc) surely the emphasis should be on teaching the umpires to interpret properly, instead of taking away their power to adjudicate decisions by restricting the interpretation of infingements?

There is nothing to be gained by bleating about your team getting unfair treatment (Hawthorn has a proud tradition of umpiring conspiracy theories, especially since the merger business), but I do think umpiring in general needs improving. I still think three field umps is too many. Why can't we go back to two? Especially if they are all going to insist on staying in the corridor.

cheers

 

[Joel]

No Jod, you just blame injuries.

 

[Frodo]

Originally posted by ah_19:
personally i dont complain publickly unless someone else like sandie tries to bag us for it

And let's face it, all she lives for is criticising.

 

[sandie]

At least I am not a little sook, all of Victoria & the AFL is against us,that is the only reason our team is s h i t.

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mantis

 

[Mudholian]

Lat figures I saw for last year had the Bulldogs ahead on the free kick count and Essendon trailing. This is directed attributable to the staging crackdown since in 1999 Essondon had the most unwarranted free kicks - 64 - compared to the average of 46.

In 1999, West Coast received 346 free kicks for the year against an average of 321, so they did OK here.

They had 78 missed free kicks to the average of 66, or just 8% worse than the average, but received by far the least unwarranted free kicks at 27 against an average of 46.

West Coast recived more free kicks at away games and interstate games than they did at home, more free kicks were missed at home. There was no difference in their unwarranted free kick stats per venue.

The conclusion is that umpires tend to call play on for interstate sides playing at home, possibly because they deliberately or unconsciously try to umpire against the parochial crowd, since the missed free kick ratios are down at home more than half the average for POrt, the Crows and Brisbane also. However in West Coasts case, they get their share of correct and warranted free kicks.

Conspiracy, or just poor umpiring in 99?

Mud

 

[jod23]

Joel - i dont blame injuries. Everyone knows we had a horror run of injuries last year but that only served to point out our lack of depth. I dont blame injuries, there unfortunate yes but the reason we had a bad year last year was our lack of depth.

As for the Fagpies you cant blame anything but crap players for your horror season.