Undervalued Cricketers

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Gethelred

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Burns sorry, not wood. I’m an idiot

Bairstow has developed some really bad habits in his last dozen tests or so but I think they’re relatively quickly rectified if he gets the right guidance.
Think that's kind of the point: he only became an international cricketer in the first place because he found a coach willing to work with him, not the other way around. He wanted to do things his way, and it produced his technique the way it is.

Don't think he's willing to be rectified, PB. Think he's happy to be where and what he is, right now.
 

PhatBoy

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Think that's kind of the point: he only became an international cricketer in the first place because he found a coach willing to work with him, not the other way around. He wanted to do things his way, and it produced his technique the way it is.

Don't think he's willing to be rectified, PB. Think he's happy to be where and what he is, right now.
That’s very fair
 

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Plugger35

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He had the ability to be a lot better than he was

The same with Craig McMillan, he scored an epic ODI ton to beat the Aussies in this game but he never quite put it together beyond that.

 

ioppolo

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The same with Craig McMillan, he scored an epic ODI ton to beat the Aussies in this game but he never quite put it together beyond that.


Ugh. I remember that as a 10/11 year old. Terrible memories.
 

STFU Donnie

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Those guy were the were the second and last generation of (mostly) batsmen who ended up like that, we had a batting line up carved in stone for the most part of our glory years. Stuart Law and di Venuto have the same story.

Stuart Law is one of those rare cricketers with an infinite batting average. I was at the Gabba in 93/94 and attended a Qld v Tas one dayer. From memory he made 159 and looked an absolute world beater. Was always shocked he didn't get a proper run.
 

western royboy

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Think that's kind of the point: he only became an international cricketer in the first place because he found a coach willing to work with him, not the other way around. He wanted to do things his way, and it produced his technique the way it is.

Don't think he's willing to be rectified, PB. Think he's happy to be where and what he is, right now.
I saw him bat for Randwick when he cane out as a young bloke probably 8 years ago - what I am watching now is not the same player and I’ll preface my comments by saying I’m a qualified coach and unlike so many in this day and age a proponent of basic batting technique - poor Rory has absolutely nothing in that area, all has going for him is his 👁 that’s it
 

Plugger35

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Stuart Law is one of those rare cricketers with an infinite batting average. I was at the Gabba in 93/94 and attended a Qld v Tas one dayer. From memory he made 159 and looked an absolute world beater. Was always shocked he didn't get a proper run.

I got to meet Stuart Law at the Hip-E Club in Perth when the Queensland team were drinking there after a match against WA, me and another rugby mate of mine were chatting to Michael Kasprowicz at the bar where we were talking rugby, his brother Simon was playing rugby for NSW at the time.

Kaspa said he missed playing rugby, he was in some Queensland junior rugby rep teams but cricket took over, he was a ripping bloke and he took us over to meet the rest of the Queensland team who thought we were old rugby mates of his.

He was an undervalued cricketer too, he was never in the first choice Australian test bowling line up but he was a good back up bowler when one of the front liners got injured, unfortunately he's probably best remembered for getting a glove on that ball from Harmison to lose the 2nd Ashes test in 2005.

 
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to1994

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I’d take Bairstow against the new or moving ball over wood. He’s flaky, yes - and his tests as a specialist batsman in particular have a poor record (he averages 38 in the tests when he keeps, make of that what you will). But he is dangerous. Hameed I can see some merit in. He soaked up good pressure in both innings so if you’ve got strokemakers to come I can cop that. But burns isn’t good enough to soak up that same pressure imo nor can he hurt you with stroke play. At least someone like Bairstow can really give you some headaches

Bairstow has been awful at Test level for years and has gotten a ridiculous amount of chances despite that.

I understand why, outside Root he is the most talented batsmen in the set up but it's time to close that door and accept he's a white ball cricketer.

I know Burns gets a lot of hate on here but he has played some solid knocks in tough conditions and has been better then something like 15 odd openers they've tried since Strauss retired.

England failed to get the best out of Cook in the second half of career. Spent all that time trying to find someone as good and the lack of consistency put stress on him as a player and also as a captain. I'd argue it contributed to him retiring early despite not having the same injury problems of other young retirees like Clarke and G Smith.

I'd stick with Burns who has the potential to average 35 in my opinion. Hameed is no guarantee to last despite being a good prospect and the next in life after that is very rough with guys like Sibley who look well out of their depth.

Burns is also a potential captaincy option and Root can't do it forever if they want to preserve him as a player.
 

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western royboy

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Bairstow has been awful at Test level for years and has gotten a ridiculous amount of chances despite that.

I understand why, outside Root he is the most talented batsmen in the set up but it's time to close that door and accept he's a white ball cricketer.

I know Burns gets a lot of hate on here but he has played some solid knocks in tough conditions and has been better then something like 15 odd openers they've tried since Strauss retired.

England failed to get the best out of Cook in the second half of career. Spent all that time trying to find someone as good and the lack of consistency put stress on him as a player and also as a captain. I'd argue it contributed to him retiring early despite not having the same injury problems of other young retirees like Clarke and G Smith.

I'd stick with Burns who has the potential to average 35 in my opinion. Hameed is no guarantee to last despite being a good prospect and the next in life after that is very rough with guys like Sibley who look well out of their depth.

Burns is also a potential captaincy option and Root can't do it forever if they want to preserve him as a player.
I’m happy to take Hameed over Burns any day of the week - Hameed has some basic technique, Burns has none, on fast pitches like Australi he will continually be exposed.
 

Bareth Garry

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Hameed looked competent and comfortable with his own game. He got two good balls to be dismissed but up until then in both innings there are a lot of good signs that he can develop into a good opener at this level. He's a defensive minded player but unlike Sibley who would bat for a long time without scoring runs at least Hameed tries to put away the bad ball.
 

Tyberious Funk

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I saw him bat for Randwick when he cane out as a young bloke probably 8 years ago - what I am watching now is not the same player and I’ll preface my comments by saying I’m a qualified coach and unlike so many in this day and age a proponent of basic batting technique - poor Rory has absolutely nothing in that area, all has going for him is his 👁 that’s it

IMHO, it's made worse by the fact that the rationale for his technique is complete bullshit. The claim is that he has a 'dominant left eye', which is why he tries to get into such an odd stance. Except... pretty everyone has a dominant eye that matches their dominant hand. So why don't other players feel the same need that Rory has? Besides, you need BOTH your eyes to be able to judge distance... it's... mind-bogglingly stupid.
 

western royboy

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IMHO, it's made worse by the fact that the rationale for his technique is complete bullshit. The claim is that he has a 'dominant left eye', which is why he tries to get into such an odd stance. Except... pretty everyone has a dominant eye that matches their dominant hand. So why don't other players feel the same need that Rory has? Besides, you need BOTH your eyes to be able to judge distance... it's... mind-bogglingly stupid.
Could not ageee with you more 👍
 

DaRick

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Was a better bowler before the national team got hold of him IMO.

They modified his action to lessen the stress on his back, which allowed him to bowl faster and shorter - then got him to bang the ball in short of a length just like the others. He lost a lot of his variation and control - was a lesser bowler after the change.

Hilfenhaus' overall record (99 wickets at 28.5) is IMO not too far away from reflecting his overall ability as a bowler (could have been a bit better), but I always got the impression that niggling injuries often messed with his action, and that his action had to be finely tuned for him to bowl at anything like his full ability.

If everything was right, he could move the ball late from a good length at about 140 km/h (IND 2011-12), but if it wasn't he swung the ball too early, bowled too short, was slightly slower and at his worst effectively became a bowling machine (2010-11 Ashes). Often he was somewhere in between - reasonably accurate but lacking the pace or the surprise factor (i.e. late swing) to run through a lineup.

He was a bit underrated as a batsman; really a #10 rather than a #11. He wasn't much for defending but he could certainly clump a few runs. Plus his fielding was at times surprisingly spectacular - I remember when he picked up a ball on the run and, from a fair distance, threw down one stump from a difficult angle to run out Kohli in 2011-12.
 

DaRick

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He had the ability to be a lot better than he was

Like pretty much every NZ bowler of the period who wasn't Chris Martin, I think his career would have been seriously affected by injury.

The problem with NZ bowlers of that period is that they had to practice on concrete, which obviously would have messed with their feet, ankles and probably other areas.
 

The Passenger

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poor Rory has absolutely nothing in that area, all has going for him is his 👁 that’s it
He's got some ticker as well it must be said. But yeah, so many "avenues of exploitation" for the opening bowlers to work with. Falls over his stumps, looks horrendous against the rising ball, limited in his range of scoring areas and puts minimal pressure back on the bowler. It would have been absolute carnage if Dale Steyn had the chance to attack him in South Africa.

I said in another thread with that technique he is just never gonna be able to score some easy runs to pad out hit stats, which in turn relieves pressure. Even once he has been in for a significant time, it still feels like moving his score from say 60 to 70 is not much less painful than progressing from 10 to 20.
 

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