University Full Fee Plan Could Backfire Against Government.

[Borry]

Reading the Worst Australian today and listening to the radio, apparently applications for courses at Western Australian public univerities UWA, Curtin. ECU and Murdoch are declining for next year with signifigantly less applicants for spots in courses in 2005 compared to previous years. There is a reported 7 percent slump. On the other hand WA's only private university, Notre Dame university has currently experiences a 52% increase in applications for courses at their uni. They have recieved 2330 applications, compared to 1526 last year. Staff at these unis believe that the reason for this is because students are being turned away from the fear of paying full fees up front for places at public universites because they cant afford them. Notre Dame has a government introduced program for places at private universities called Fee-Help which allows students to defer up front full fees starting from next year. More students are also turining to TAFE aswell as Uni for next year.

Could the introduction of full fee places backfire on the government and these public unis when yopu consider that students are being turned away from going to these unis because of them and the unis are trying to get money for full fee places and they cant because students wont apply for these places.

PS - Actually I should leave out Curtin because they have knocked back full fee places aswell as the 25% increase in fees for all their courses because they wisely belived that they didnt need them because they have enough money and funding.

 

[agitator]

this is a good thing, there are too many undeserving no-hopers going to uni who should consider a tafe course or a some trade.

personally i blame witless whitlam for implanting the idea that everyone is entitled to go to uni, totally free and if you dont then your a failure.

 

[coasting]

There is too much disparity here. Why is TAFE basically free but people who go to universities end up with $100,000+ HECS bills? Its a joke.

 

[MightyFighting]

this is a good thing, there are too many undeserving no-hopers going to uni who should consider a tafe course or a some trade.

personally i blame witless whitlam for implanting the idea that everyone is entitled to go to uni, totally free and if you dont then your a failure.

Is that the first sensible thing you've said in your life?

 

[Mr Q]

personally i blame witless whitlam for implanting the idea that everyone is entitled to go to uni, totally free and if you dont then your a failure.

Free University education pre-dates Whitlam, and the HECS system was originally brought in by the Hawke government.

Going to change your mind now?

 

[evo]

There is too much disparity here. Why is TAFE basically free but people who go to universities end up with $100,000+ HECS bills? Its a joke.

Thats an excellent point actually.Must admit I'd never thought of that.

 

[spindoctor]

Yes, Howard and Nelson and all the other Liberal Party members who benefited from a free education should pay back the cost of their degree for the good of the country. It is only fair, if they expect others to pay.

 

[teams]

Free University education pre-dates Whitlam, and the HECS system was originally brought in by the Hawke government.

Don't think. There were commonwealth scholarships for rated students and direct federal operating grants to the universities (being administered by the states) prior to Whitlam but would be surprised if you could find evidence of across the board fee wavers before EGW.

 

[campbell]

When I did my degree it cost nothing. Only the student fees and books.The rest was free.

 

[dan warna]

yeah

instead of getting the best and brightest being doctors you get monkeys who have lots of money.

" er no I don't know whats wrong with you mate, I think you are sick, I paid for my degree, I can't actually help you, but here's your bill for $70, thank you!"

"daddy, when you bought my degree as a doctor, I don't actually know anything about the job daddy"...

etc.

the future for medicine et al.

 

[Frodo]

Fees are a small part of the overall problem

More and more I see further education as a means of getting young people off the dole queue, nothing more. And getting them to pay for doing so is a double win.

What I see is young people gaining degrees that are unemployable. They don't know even the basics of their subject yet graduate.

The days of readsweepers with degrees is not far off.

 

[dr nick]

who ends up with a $100,000 HECS bill?

 

[tribey]

What I see is young people gaining degrees that are unemployable.

Such as?...

 

[CharlieG]

Such as?...

Cue the cliched anti-intellectual railings against Arts degrees. The common complaints that are really about one simple fact; that people who choose to learn end up thinking differently to those who choose not to.

Someone like Frodo can never, ever, admit that this may indicate more about the assumptions of the anti-intellectuals than it does about the intellectuals. If learning results in people coming to conclusions that they don't like, well, the learning must be wrong, huh?

 

[campbell]

USc has a Bachelor of Popular Culture. Now what can you do with that degree???

 

[Rodion]

USc has a Bachelor of Popular Culture. Now what can you do with that degree???

You'll have the credentials to look down your nose at people while you're handing them their burger and fries.

 

[Freo Big Fella]

You'll have the credentials to look down your nose at people while you're handing them their burger and fries.

Pay that.

 

[catfan29]

By having full fee courses it allows for more places to students who cant afford it and get better marks to go on the HECS program. Full fee courses are the way of the future and dont take away from those who cannot afford it.

 

[CharlieG]

By having full fee courses it allows for more places to students who cant afford it and get better marks to go on the HECS program. Full fee courses are the way of the future and dont take away from those who cannot afford it.

But why the lower entrance requirements? I can live with the argument in favour of full fee courses - as long as they are kept to a minimum and not allowed to replace or exceed HECS courses - but it's simply not right that someone with cash to splash can get in easier than someone without.

For my second preference, the difference is 10 ENTER points. HECS course is 93, the full fee course is 83. I know that it's calculated on demand but it's not a fair system. The entrance requirement should be the same for everyone.

 

[Frodo]

Cue the cliched anti-intellectual railings against Arts degrees. The common complaints that are really about one simple fact; that people who choose to learn end up thinking differently to those who choose not to.

Someone like Frodo can never, ever, admit that this may indicate more about the assumptions of the anti-intellectuals than it does about the intellectuals. If learning results in people coming to conclusions that they don't like, well, the learning must be wrong, huh?

Cue...you aint got a clue!!!!

I don't know many people with art degrees. But I do deal with a lot of people with engineering, accounting, IT, buisness management (what a joke, economics and similar qualifications on a daily basis, and the level of knowledge and ability has declined dramatically over the last two decades.

There is a place for art wher a country can afford it.