Up the Arse! Goons thread. :)

[DB10]

Would he stay if he was offered the captaincy?

He'd just go to Barcelona at the end of next season then.

 

[PendlePie]

1. Yaya Toure
2. Javier Mascherano
3. Andrea Pirlo

I can list at least 5 more if you want me to.

Yaya Toure - = with Flamini, I honestly can't split the two. I'd still take Flamini though.
Mascherano - no way
Andrea Pirlo - seriously? don't even play the same position, and Pirlo is so unaccountable when defending it's not even funny.

FWIW I rate Cambiasso as top 3 defensive mids in the world, along with Flamini. Both are world class imo

 

[ShearMagic9]

Yaya Toure - = with Flamini, I honestly can't split the two. I'd still take Flamini though.
Mascherano - no way
Andrea Pirlo - seriously? don't even play the same position, and Pirlo is so unaccountable when defending it's not even funny.

Pirlo unaccountable? He's the best defensive midfielder in the world by an absolute mile.

Mascherano = yes way.

Also, Claude Makelele, Gennaro Gattuso are also both better defensive midfielders.

 

[PendlePie]

Pirlo unaccountable? He's the best defensive midfielder in the world by an absolute mile.

Mascherano = yes way.

Also, Claude Makelele, Gennaro Gattuso are also both better defensive midfielders.

Pirlo plays more of a Cesc role - playmaker, not a defensive midfielder/enforcer-esque player as such, which is what Flamini is. The two cannot be compared.

Flamini has been the best defensive mid in the league this season. Better passer, marker (marked Kaka out of two UCL games) and runs more in a game, amongst other things in comparison to Mascherano. Makelele, on this season's form, doesn't come close i'm afraid.

Gattuso is completely past it and similar to Makelele in that this season's form hasn't been flash. 1-2 years ago he was the best, however that's not the case anymore. Flamini is widely regarded to be better.

What about the 5 others you were speaking of?

 

[DB10]

Pirlo unaccountable? He's the best defensive midfielder in the world by an absolute mile.

Pirlo's not a defensive midfielder in the slightest. If you're going to use a Milan player as an example for DM's, then use Gattuso or even Ambrosini. Pirlo is a player you compare to Cesc and not Flamini.

If Flamini goes he goes. We're lucky in that he plays in a pretty replaceable position because high energy defensive midfielders aren't exactly a rarity. It's why I wish we'd kept Muamba or try and re-sign him if Birmingham go down.

 

[ShearMagic9]

Pirlo's not a defensive midfielder in the slightest. If you're going to use a Milan player as an example for DM's, then use Gattuso or even Ambrosini. Pirlo is a player you compare to Cesc and not Flamini.

If Flamini goes he goes. We're lucky in that he plays in a pretty replaceable position because high energy defensive midfielders aren't exactly a rarity. It's why I wish we'd kept Muamba or try and re-sign him if Birmingham go down.

It's funny that I distinctly remember Pirlo playing in defensive midfield in a few games I've seen.

 

[PendlePie]

It's funny that I distinctly remember Pirlo playing in defensive midfield in a few games I've seen.

He plays in a deep-lying play making role, yes, but his style of play and role for the team differs from Flamini, Gattuso and the like. As said before he plays similarly to Cesc.

He is not a defensive midfielder, in the sense of the word, nor are their any distinct similarities in the way he plays and way Flamini plays. The two cannot be compared.

 

[DB10]

It's funny that I distinctly remember Pirlo playing in defensive midfield in a few games I've seen.

Just because he plays where a defensive midfielder usually does doesn't make him one. Thierry Henry spent most of the game on the left wing at Arsenal. He was no left winger.

 

[ashley12]

Gotta agree with the Arsenal boys here. Pirlo isnt the most accountable of defensive mids but plays in that area of the park. Him and Flamini are completely different styles of player that happen to play in the same area of the pitch for their teams.

For mine anyway

Toure
Masch = Flamini = Cambiasso
Gattuso.

Pirlo, while used to playing as a creative DM, does so partially to allow Kaka and Seedorf more freedom around the pitch.

 

[ShearMagic9]

Pirlo is a creative defensive midfielder, still makes him a defensive midfielder.

PendlePie said 'Name 3 players better than him in his position'.

Not 'similar players'

Pirlo plays as a defensive midfielder, albeit an attacking one (if theres such a thing), therefore he plays Flaminis position.

 

[Benno_900]

If Flamini goes he goes. We're lucky in that he plays in a pretty replaceable position because high energy defensive midfielders aren't exactly a rarity. It's why I wish we'd kept Muamba or try and re-sign him if Birmingham go down.

Diarra would have been handy.

 

[beatlesmith]

buy samir nasri to replace flamini. Although nasri is more attacking, denilson and diaby could easily be taught the DM trade. Nasri will be "the next zidane". Get Karim Benzema too. Ben arfa/quaresma on the wing if hleb leaves.

 

[PendlePie]

Pirlo is a creative defensive midfielder, still makes him a defensive midfielder.

PendlePie said 'Name 3 players better than him in his position'.

Not 'similar players'

Pirlo plays as a defensive midfielder, albeit an attacking one (if theres such a thing), therefore he plays Flaminis position.

Pirlo doesn't play in Flamini's position - Pirlo gets the ball deep and playmakes, usually pushing up the ground far. This is essentially what CESC does and the position CESC plays (but he doesn't play as deep). Flamini and Piro may operate in the same position (the centre of the park) but that doesn't necessarily mean they play the same position. Position isn't just where the player starts the game but where they move throughout it and where/how they operate. It's clear that this differs for Flamini and Pirlo. Flamini plays Gattuso's role in that he is an actual defensive midfielder and plays in front of the back four. By saying Pirlo plays in Flamini's position you are implying that Milan use the equivalent of two defensive, Flamini-esque players, which is rubbish. Gattuso is the only player for Milan that plays in Flamini's position.

If Flamini plays in Pirlo's position, why would Milan be interested in buying him to replace Gattuso

I think (hope, really) that it's now established.

 

[ShearMagic9]

I'm not saying that Pirlo and Flamini play the same roles.

I'm also not saying Milan play two defensive midfielders.

But hey, why does it matter, I can still name at least 5 players other than Pirlo who play Flaminis role better than him.

 

[HODGEYROAD]

I'm not saying that Pirlo and Flamini play the same roles.

I'm also not saying Milan play two defensive midfielders.

But hey, why does it matter, I can still name at least 5 players other than Pirlo who play Flaminis role better than him.

If Pirlo and Flamster play in the same position then Flamster is the better player because the primary role of that position is to be defensive. I think you will find its Gena Gatusso you should be comparing Flamster to.

 

[Vieira]

Sorry Fantastic but you are not comparing apples with apples. Pirlo is a playmaking midfielder who receives the ball very deep and distributes the ball better than most other midfielders in the world. He is NOT a defensive midfielder. He controls the tempo of a match as its playmaker. The defensive role for Milan is played by Gatuso.

Flam has had an excellent year. He has kept probably our best player from 2006/07, Gilberto, out of the side all year. He wasn't a starter at the start of the year and I would personally not like to see him go.

If its over money, which I suspect it is, (Arsenal offering 50K a week and Juve offering 60K a week), then that would be very unfortunate. Shades of Cashley all over again!

But hey, why does it matter, I can still name at least 5 players other than Pirlo who play Flaminis role better than him.

Name names please.

 

[ShearMagic9]

Name names please.

Yaya Toure
Javier Mascherano
Claude Makelele
Michael Essien
Gennaro Gattuso

 

[Vieira]

Yaya Toure
Javier Mascherano
Claude Makelele
Michael Essien
Gennaro Gattuso

IMHO:

Flam > Makelele : simply an age and performance 2007/08 based judgement. Makelele is the best of all time.

Flam > Gattuso: based on performances in 2007/08. Gattuso has only been a shadow of the player he was three years ago and with it Milan are only a shadow of the team they were.

Flam = Mascherano and Flam = Toure: based on performances in 2007/08

Essien > Flam. Essien is the best defensive midfielder in the world.

Not doing to badly for a 24 year old who has really only struck the big time this season. Would like to see him stay assuming he wants to and assuming it is only a money related issue.

 

[PendlePie]

Arsenal midfielder Alexander Hleb this morning dropped a strong hint that he will remain at Arsenal by insisting that his side are already planning for next season.

Attractive football brought Arsenal to the cusp of success this season, but to make the transition to winners, Hleb knows that for next season, his side needs to learn to win ugly in time for next season.
He said: "All I can say is that I enjoy the game here and enjoy playing for Arsenal. There is more to come from this team and from me."

Good news. Would be hard to compensate for losing both Hleb and Flamini. Losing only one of them would be so much better than losing both.

 

[DonMania#5]

Good news, hopefully Flamini follows Hleb and stays aswell.

 

[DonMania#5]

Cesc has won the PFA young player of the year award. Congrats

Also, Sagna, Clichy, Fabregas and Adebayor were named in the team of the year.

 

[Darealrath]

Great effort boys.

 

[HODGEYROAD]

Well done to Adebayor, Sagna,Clichy and Cesc Easy mauling this morning. Shouldn't have concede 2 goals though. Derby are just awful

 

[giantroo]

Does Ade have the Golden boot in the bag? or is mr. showoff still ahead?

 

[Benno_900]

Ronaldo has 28, Ade 24, Torres 22