WAFL -> AFL Performance discussion

[yakka man]

Something I have ponderered for a while now is how younger players seem to perform better at AFL level then they do at WAFL level. There is no doubt that the intensity at AFL level is harder and faster yet a high percentage of younger players struggle in the WAFL but get themselves up for an AFL game. The paradox is that even senior players who are nothing special (eg Crowley) can go back to WAFL and absolutely dominate. Like he did in 2010 where he had 30 touches and seven goals after being dropped.

Pitt is still lightly framed and is still struggling to get hands on the ball. Sheridan is doing really well partly due to his extraordinary fitness base. Crozier is a talented forward with great atleticism which would help. Neale plays well at every level and is solidly built for his size. And Sutcliffe is still a bit light but again has a huge fitness base.

Mature aged players also seem to effortlessly make the jump from WAFL/SANFL or VFL level to AFL level. eg Broughton, Barlow, Spurr, Silvagni etc. It makes me wonder how hard AFL actually is. Does the crowd gear them up, do the structure and coaching allow for higher stats or does being surrounded my more fit and skillful teammates lift their performances and vice versa does playing at WAFL in a foreign team hinder you a bit.

I would apprecite people's insight into the difference. From what I can deduce WAFL games seem to be more scrappy and contested which could explain why bigger bodied players perform better. Eg Pearce last year and Roberton this year after putting on weight. Of coarse there are always going to be exceptions to the rule eg Athletic qualities and position played.

It seems impossible to determine how a player will adapt to AFL level. In some cases average form in the WAFL might not mean that a player will struggle at AFL level, maybe even the opposite. I think a few of our new recruits in the WAFL at present could make a strong transition into AFL.

Anyone have any insight?

 

[free at last]

It unfortunately does when your name is Jack Anthony.

 

[E Shed]

WAFL is a different game, more like old school footy. The structures are all different. It's probably a bit confusing if you are young and being taught to run in certain patterns and the play never follows those patterns. Perhaps the young ones are told to run in certain ways when the team is in possession and not in possession. It could mess with your timing and natural game sense.
Also maybe those who only play WAFL tend to look for their teammates in transition, I think the blow ins get ignored a bit sometimes.
But if you are someone that hunts the ball and know how to read the game you will get a kick anywhere.

 

[Nickos66]

The young kids in particular would get a big rush of adrenaline playing their 1st handful of games. It often happens when they start with a bang and taper off after around 3 games, get dropped, come back in and get their 2nd wind.

Even Bollenhagen managed to get a game and embrace the big game atmosphere and kick a goal. He just wasn't able to replicate that desire and adrenaline to get back to that form and crack more games.

 

[Thistle]

I think young players often perform better at AFL level because they feel more comfortable with the team. They know exactly what is expected of them from the coaches and understand their teammates.

As they barely train with their respective WAFL club they don't have that same sense of belonging which could be intimidating for players who are just starting to play with men.

 

[prattsta]

I think young players often perform better at AFL level because they feel more comfortable with the team. They know exactly what is expected of them from the coaches and understand their teammates.

As they barely train with their respective WAFL club they don't have that same sense of belonging which could be intimidating for players who are just starting to play with men.

The flip side to this, is that some young players never figure out that they actually need to have a genuine crack at WAFL level. Generally speaking, they've been the first kid picked, best player, best athlete, best whatever and the idea that they may actually need to prove that to a bunch of nobodies in a second tier competition is beyond them.

 

[E Shed]

The flip side to this, is that some young players never figure out that they actually need to have a genuine crack at WAFL level. Generally speaking, they've been the first kid picked, best player, best athlete, best whatever and the idea that they may actually need to prove that to a bunch of nobodies in a second tier competition is beyond them.

Doesn't quite ring true to me. I was an elite junior and if you put me in a game of footy, I wanted to get hold of the ball, didn't care who was playing. Gees I'm in my 40's now and I ran out with a bunch of indigenous blokes on a red dirt oval covered in stones in the middle of the freaking desert last year, got bashed from pillar to post, used as a stepladder and Harlem Globe Trotters style witches hat by grinning little fellas half my age and I still managed to get my hands on the footy. I couldn't walk for a week and was covered in bruised but gees it was fun.

 

[dockshark]

This is why I cringe when people get disappointed with players WAFL possesion counts. No WAFL club is utilising a structure like Fremantles.....and it is not just a simple case of going back to the lower level and imediately getting 30+ possessions. Ross knows this and has explained he looks for movement and effort at WAFL level rather than raw numbers. There are so many posters on this board that form views on WAFL players through stats and it rarely ever paints the whole picture....

 

[prattsta]

Doesn't quite ring true to me. I was an elite junior and if you put me in a game of footy, I wanted to get hold of the ball, didn't care who was playing. Gees I'm in my 40's now and I ran out with a bunch of indigenous blokes on a red dirt oval covered in stones in the middle of the freaking desert last year, got bashed from pillar to post, used as a stepladder and Harlem Globe Trotters style witches hat by grinning little fellas half my age and I still managed to get my hands on the footy. I couldn't walk for a week and was covered in bruised but gees it was fun.

Nice. That's not really what I'm talking about though.

Thistle was talking about player not feeling comfortable at WAFL level as they don't know the players, coaches, structures etc. Fine. What I'm saying is, not all players bother to figure any of this stuff out and it has a bearing on performance.

"I'm an AFL player, I don't need to bother fitting in or having a genuine crack because I'll be playing in the seniors soon enough and I'll never be back here again..."

Most rookies will more often than not play in the WAFL rather than AFL. Whether they are there for mid-week training sessions or not, they will play in the WAFL league team every weekend. If you're just acting like the WAFL club is a half-way house, then you're not going to get the most out of the situation. You end up getting the worst of both worlds. A bunch of senior players that don't want to help you out on gameday and no f'n idea about structures to help yourself out on gameday.

 

[E Shed]

Nice. That's not really what I'm talking about though.

Thistle was talking about player not feeling comfortable at WAFL level as they don't know the players, coaches, structures etc. Fine. What I'm saying is, not all players bother to figure any of this stuff out and it has a bearing on performance.

"I'm an AFL player, I don't need to bother fitting in or having a genuine crack because I'll be playing in the seniors soon enough and I'll never be back here again..."

Most rookies will more often than not play in the WAFL rather than AFL. Whether they are there for mid-week training sessions or not, they will play in the WAFL league team every weekend. If you're just acting like the WAFL club is a half-way house, then you're not going to get the most out of the situation. You end up getting the worst of both worlds. A bunch of senior players that don't want to help you out on gameday and no f'n idea about structures to help yourself out on gameday.

Maybe but don't you think players who aren't basically super competitive will be weeded out by all the elite junior programs they would have been through to make it to AFL? If you are a gun player in a game of footy, any game of footy you go and get the footy or at least try to. Look at the way Crozier and Sheridan rip it up. These guys are playing footy like they mean it and it shows. Sloithe and Sutcliffe weren't pulling any punches in the Derby on Monday.

 

[Clay Davis]

Maybe but don't you think players who aren't basically super competitive will be weeded out by all the elite junior programs they would have been through to make it to AFL? If you are a gun player in a game of footy, any game of footy you go and get the footy or at least try to. Look at the way Crozier and Sheridan rip it up. These guys are playing footy like they mean it and it shows. Sloithe and Sutcliffe weren't pulling any punches in the Derby on Monday.

Sibosado and Bollenhagen are two counter examples. Plenty of players cruise through juniors on talent alone and make it into AFL.

 

[prattsta]

Maybe but don't you think players who aren't basically super competitive will be weeded out by all the elite junior programs they would have been through to make it to AFL? If you are a gun player in a game of footy, any game of footy you go and get the footy or at least try to. Look at the way Crozier and Sheridan rip it up. These guys are playing footy like they mean it and it shows. Sloithe and Sutcliffe weren't pulling any punches in the Derby on Monday.

Maybe I'm not making myself clear. I'm not talking about how the player goes about his footy when he's on the field. What I'm talking about, is how his attitude towards his WAFL club/team-mates affects his performance. Things like getting 1-2 hand passes, linking up through the middle, taking marks on the lead etc all require team-mates. It can be the difference between a 15 possession game and a 25 possession game.

Again, Thistle was saying players often struggle to fit in and feel at home in the WAFL which affects how they perform at that level. I'm not disagreeing with him/her, it's true. What I'm saying is, some players simply don't bother to fit in.

Was it the 'have a crack' comment? I simply meant have a real crack at being a part of the club/team/whatever.

 

[yakka man]

Thanks for the discussion fellaz. Definitely agree that after a full pre-season with an AFL club and their complex structures it can be difficult to go play with different teammates and structures at WAFL level. Something that our players have struggled with in the past. This years draft crop however has made the transition very well which pleases me. I just think some supporters need to keep an open mind when analysing WAFL form as it doesn't mean they won't adjust better to AFL style footy. I think Sutcliffe and Sheridan, maybe Croz might be these types of players.

 

[E Shed]

Maybe I'm not making myself clear. I'm not talking about how the player goes about his footy when he's on the field. What I'm talking about, is how his attitude towards his WAFL club/team-mates affects his performance. Things like getting 1-2 hand passes, linking up through the middle, taking marks on the lead etc all require team-mates. It can be the difference between a 15 possession game and a 25 possession game.

Again, Thistle was saying players often struggle to fit in and feel at home in the WAFL which affects how they perform at that level. I'm not disagreeing with him/her, it's true. What I'm saying is, some players simply don't bother to fit in.

Was it the 'have a crack' comment? I simply meant have a real crack at being a part of the club/team/whatever.

Yes, fair enough. Certainly there have been some, like the Bollenhagen example who seem to think they are too good to get their hands dirty in the WAFL. I guess some of the kids who come through elite programs aren't used to playing in the 2's but the good ones know they have to make a go of it and do whatever is necessary I would hope. You can certainly see Croziers WAFL team mates getting around him when he's burrowed in, won a hard ball and snapped a goal or laid it off.
Still there are always a few princesses , just hope we haven't drafted too many of them

 

[PapaJ]

There's probably a few factors. Two main ones that come to mind are basically the one thing really - it's all about the quality around them. Firstly, their team-mates are better and will know how to get them the ball and use them (as long as they're basically doing the right thing too). Secondly, and more the issue, in team sports when you're playing a better team your game lifts too - I don't fully know why, pschological or whatever.

My game wasn't footy, but I was a lowish state level Basketballer in my younger days. Usually pre-season I would get to play in games with and mostly against teams that included NBL or near-NBL quality players. Now I was no where near their level overall, but the quality of the game, the intensity etc. just lifted my types right up. We looked like we could match it with them and I can tell you my best personal games where at that level. But I couldn't maintain it, even within a game, my brilliant moments were fine, but there were times when I looked back and I could see I just couldn't match the skill level, knowledge etc of the 'next level' players. Over the course lots of games or a season, that would be found out.

I think it's a similar thing - the higher level of AFL just brings out the best in many of these guys (if they've got the basic goods there), but they get found out in the longer haul. The ones that really belong will be more than one-hit-wonders though and, once they get that 'maturity' into them, will psychologically have that 'elite' mentality and will play at a certain level whether in the top flight or lower down.

Thats my 2c anyway.