Current WAR CRIMES Israel - Hamas Conflict

[jason_recliner]

Israeli protesters attack aid convoy​

Israeli protesters blocked aid trucks headed for Gaza, strewing food packages on the road at Tarqumiyah checkpoint, west of Hebron in the Israeli-occupied West Bank. The Israeli protest group Tzav 9 has claimed responsibility for the incident and other attacks on food convoys bound for Gaza. The group says no aid should enter until all Israeli hostages are released by Hamas.

Four protesters were taken into custody, according to local reports, citing Israeli police. US national security adviser Jake Sullivan expressed concern about the attack, the second such incident in less than a week. "It is a total outrage that there are people who are attacking and looting these conveys," Mr Sullivan said. "It is completely and utterly unacceptable behaviour."

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-05...gaza-offensive-from-north-and-south/103843638

 

[Jazny]

Well then. If this is your genuine belief then we're at an impasse.

Do you think that the Allied forces in world war 2 were worse than Hamas?

 

[faible]

Do you think that the Allied forces in world war 2 were worse than Hamas?

Interesting choice of comparison, if the Allies were fighting against a far-right ethno-nationalist regime intent on committing genocide, then would that mean Hamas are doing the same?

 

[Jazny]

Interesting choice of comparison, if the Allies were fighting against a far-right ethno-nationalist regime intent on committing genocide, then would that mean Hamas are doing the same?

Why are you dodging the question?

 

[faible]

Why are you dodging the question?

The question about whether the Allies in WW2 were 'worse' (in a way which you haven't clarified) than Hamas. In a thread about Israel - Hamas war crimes.

It seems to me like a really weird exercise you're about to try to engage in.

 

[Jazny]

The question about whether the Allies in WW2 were 'worse' (in a way which you haven't clarified) than Hamas.


In a thread about Israel - Hamas war crimes.

It seems to me like a really weird exercise you're about to try to engage in.

It's not that weird. In the same sense you said that Israel is doing worse things than Hamas did on Oct 7th, I'm wondering if you think that what the Allies did in world war 2 was worse than Hamas. I'm just trying to understand how you figure that. It's not a trick question, your worldview might be "yeah actually, the allies bombed and killed way more civilians than Hamas killed on Oct 7th, therefore what the allies did was worse than what Hamas did".

The only thing like Oct 7th I can think of done in the last 100 years by any of our major allies is the My Lai massacre, but that wasn't ordered by the US government, it was carried out by a group of soldiers on the ground. It would be like if the US ordered My Lai from the top, then instead of trying to cover it up they boasted about it, and said there was going to be more and more My Lai type massacres and rapes in the future. That's what Hamas did, that's what Hamas are, that's why Israel is at war.

 

[faible]

It's not that weird. In the same sense you said that Israel is doing worse things than Hamas did on Oct 7th, I'm wondering if you think that what the Allies did in world war 2 was worse than Hamas. I'm just trying to understand how you figure that.

The only thing like Oct 7th I can think of done in the last 100 years by any of our major allies is the My Lai massacre, but that wasn't ordered by the US government, it was carried out by a group of soldiers on the ground. It would be like if the US ordered My Lai from the top, then instead of trying to cover it up they boasted about it, and said there was going to be more and more My Lai type massacres and rapes in the future. That's what Hamas did, that's what Hamas are, that's why Israel is at war.

Seems you're relying on a really, really weird definition of 'worse' things, and are ignoring a hell of a lot of atrocities Israel have committed against the Palestinian people.

So again:

It seems to me like a really weird exercise you're about to try to engage in.

 

[Jazny]

Seems you're relying on a really, really weird definition of 'worse' things, and are ignoring a hell of a lot of atrocities Israel have committed against the Palestinian people.

So again:

What do you think Israel have done that is comparable to Oct 7th?

 

[faible]

What do you think Israel have done that is comparable to Oct 7th?

In my opinion? They're in the midst of attempting a genocide. So that's pretty bad.

 

[Jazny]

In my opinion? They're in the midst of attempting a genocide. So that's pretty bad.

So you think Israel, as a matter of policy, is deliberately targeting civilians with zero military justification in order to wipe out the Palestinian population in Gaza?

 

[faible]

So you think Israel, as a matter of policy, is deliberately targeting civilians with zero military justification in order to wipe out the Palestinian population in Gaza?

I think their actions in Gaza - large scale displacement of the Palestinian people, destruction of massive amounts of civilian infrastructure, deliberate restriction (or outright denial) of basic necessities like food and water - are very much deliberate.

I don't think it's an accident or collateral damage in pursuit of 'eradicating Hamas'.

If they're not trying to cause massive civilian casualties, injuries, or displacement they must be one of the single most incompetent military outfits the world has ever seen.

 

[Jazny]

I think their actions in Gaza - large scale displacement of the Palestinian people, destruction of massive amounts of civilian infrastructure, deliberate restriction (or outright denial) of basic necessities like food and water - are very much deliberate

To answer my question, do you believe the Israeli military as a matter of policy is deliberately targeting civilians, knowing they are civilians, with no military purpose other than to wipe out Palestinians in Gaza? It seems like you answered no to that question, but then moved on to 'displacement, destruction of infrastructure, and restriction of necessities'.

Do you think Israel is trying to kill Gazans through starvation and thirst?

I don't think it's an accident or collateral damage in pursuit of 'eradicating Hamas'.
If they're not trying to cause massive civilian casualties, injuries, or displacement they must be one of the single most incompetent military outfits the world has ever seen.

Why? You think it's really easy fighting in an urban environment where your enemy is using civilian areas as bases, firing rockets from densely populated areas, and using the civilian population as human shields? If you look at every war in those kinds of environments, it ends up with lots of civilian casualties.

Which army, with the goal of eliminating Hamas, do you believe could go into Gaza and take out Hamas with less civilian casualties? Because most armies in these kinds of environments historically have killed thousands and thousand of civilians.

I think if the IDF were actively trying to kill as many civilians as they can in an act of genocide, then they are truly the most incompetent army.

 

[faible]

To answer my question, do you believe the Israeli military as a matter of policy is deliberately targeting civilians, knowing they are civilians, with no military purpose other than to wipe out Palestinians in Gaza? It seems like you answered no to that question, but then moved on to 'displacement, destruction of infrastructure, and restriction of necessities'.

Do you think Israel is trying to kill Gazans through starvation and thirst?

Why? You think it's really easy fighting in an urban environment where your enemy is using civilian areas as bases, firing rockets from densely populated areas, and using the civilian population as human shields? If you look at every war in those kinds of environments, it ends up with lots of civilian casualties. Which army, with the goal of eliminating Hamas, do you believe could go into Gaza and take out Hamas with less civilian casualties? Because most armies in these kinds of environments historically have killed thousands and thousand of civilians.

I think if they were actively trying to kill as many civilians as they can in an act of genocide, then they are truly the most incompetent army.

And we arrive right back here again:

Well then. If this is your genuine belief then we're at an impasse.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

What do you think Israel have done that is comparable to Oct 7th?

Everything Israel has accused Hamas of on October 7, Israel has done in greater numbers.

That's before October 7, and after October 7.

You are supporting a very sick and evil regime Jazny. You should take some time to reflect on that.

 

[Jazny]

Everything Israel has accused Hamas of on October 7, Israel has done in greater numbers.

That's before October 7, and after October 7.

You are supporting a very sick and evil regime Jazny. You should take some time to reflect on that.

At this point, if you are saying "Israel has accused Hamas of on October 7" instead of Hamas did on October 7th, you are showing a really disgusting level of bias. I don't even blame you, it's all the terrible sources you get your propaganda from.

I'm not supporting Hamas, they are the true sick regime. They did My Lai, bragged about it, threatened to do it again, and you think they should continue existing?

 

[Ghost Patrol]

At this point, if you are saying "Israel has accused Hamas of on October 7" instead of Hamas did on October 7th, you are showing a really disgusting level of bias. I don't even blame you, it's all the terrible sources you get your propaganda from.

I'm not supporting Hamas, they are the true sick regime. They did My Lai, bragged about it, threatened to do it again, and you think they should continue existing?

Oh that's a bit rich. Junket Jazny of Hasbara is accusing me of propaganda!

 

[Jazny]

Oh that's a bit rich. Junket Jazny of Hasbara is accusing me of propaganda!

The fact that you still go on about these junkets, without knowing what happens on them, what percentage of journalists have their expenses fully paid by Jewish groups to go on them, and have never provided a shred of evidence that these journalists produce misinformation on behalf of Israel is actually incredibly embarrassing for you and proves my point.

You didn't even know that the junkets reported on by crikey included meetings with Palestinian leaders... you literally know nothing about how any of this works. You just got this embarrassing idea that these junkets were somehow so luxurious that every journalist that went on them just unquestionably produced propaganda on behalf of Israel for the rest of their careers.

If you were honest, you would admit you saw a tweet or a headline about Israeli junkets somewhere, didn't bother looking into it, but it confirmed your pre-existing biases so you ran with that. You don't have to admit it though, I already know that's what happened.

 

[faible]

Israel accused Hamas of a heap of stuff on October 7. For example, the whole beheaded babies thing.

Some of it was true. Some of it wasn't. Most of it seems to have been replicated by Israel when even a cursory look was taken by the UN investigators.

At every turn, whatever Israel has accused Hamas of doing, appears to be something Israel has actually done.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

The fact that you still go on about these junkets, without knowing what happens on them, what percentage of journalists have their expenses fully paid by Jewish groups to go on them, and have never provided a shred of evidence that these journalists produce misinformation on behalf of Israel is actually incredibly embarrassing for you and proves my point.

You didn't even know that the junkets reported on by crikey included meetings with Palestinian leaders... you literally know nothing about how any of this works. You just got this embarrassing idea that these junkets were somehow so luxurious that every journalist that went on them just unquestionably produced propaganda on behalf of Israel for the rest of their careers.

If you were honest, you would admit you saw a tweet or a headline about Israeli junkets somewhere, didn't bother looking into it, but it confirmed your pre-existing biases so you ran with that. You don't have to admit it though, I already know that's what happened.

The junket journalists aren’t reporting stuff like this. Why do you think that is?

 

[Jazny]

Israel accused Hamas of a heap of stuff on October 7. For example, the whole beheaded babies thing.

Can you be very specific about "the whole beheaded babies thing" and show me what was officially claimed by Israel regarding that and how it was found to be untrue. I will wait.

 

[rank and file]

So you think Israel, as a matter of policy, is deliberately targeting civilians with zero military justification in order to wipe out the Palestinian population in Gaza?

Definitely,check out the AI being used for 'Lavender' and 'Where's Daddy?'

 

[Jazny]

The junket journalists aren’t reporting stuff like this. Why do you think that is?

It's because the junket they went on 10 years ago was so luxurious that they just can't possibly say anything bad about Israel ever. They even got to roll around in some mud.

Oh... wait though, if I search for mainstream news articles about Israeli protestors blocking Aid trucks I find a whole heap of mainstream articles about this. I am practically swimming in them. Why is that?

 

[Jazny]

Definitely,check out the AI being used for 'Lavender' and 'Where's Daddy?'

Run me through how you think that works and why you think it means that "Israel, as a matter of policy, is deliberately targeting civilians with zero military justification in order to wipe out the Palestinian population in Gaza".

 

[Kurve]

Definitely,check out the AI being used for 'Lavender' and 'Where's Daddy?'

The rules of war also had a change which may account for it, it made sense at the time if I can't remember the exact details. I'll look them up later.

 

[rank and file]

Run me through how you think that works and why you think it means that "Israel, as a matter of policy, is deliberately targeting civilians with zero military justification in order to wipe out the Palestinian population in Gaza".

No,have a read about Lavender and Where's Daddy?
You'll work it out.