Europe War in Ukraine - Thread 4 - thread rules updated

[Gethelred]

This is the thread for discussing the War in Ukraine. Should you want to discuss the geopolitics, the history, or an interesting tangent, head over here:

Europe - Backdrop to the war in Ukraine

This is the thread for the geopolitics, history and framework around the Russia-Ukraine conflict. If you want to discuss the events of the war, head over to this thread: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/war-in-ukraine-thread-4-thread-rules-updated.1376293/page-146

www.bigfooty.com

If a post isn't directly concerning the events of the war or starts to derail the thread, report the post to us and we'll move it over there.

Seeing as multiple people seem to have forgotten, abuse is against the rules of BF. Continuous, page long attacks directed at a single poster in this thread will result in threadbans for a week from this point; doing so again once you have returned will make the bans permanent and will be escalated to infractions.

This thread still has misinformation rules, and occasionally you will be asked to demonstrate a claim you have made by moderation. If you cannot, you will be offered the opportunity to amend the post to reflect that it's opinion, to remove the post, or you will be threadbanned and infracted for sharing misinformation.

Addendum: from this point, use of any variant of the word 'orc' to describe combatants, politicians or russians in general will be deleted and the poster will receive a warning. If the behaviour continues, it will be escalated. Consider this fair warning.

Finally: If I see the word Nazi or Hitler being flung around, there had better have a good faith basis as to how it's applicable to the Russian invasion - as in, video/photographic evidence of POW camps designed to remove another ethnic group - or to the current Ukrainian army. If this does not occur, you will be threadbanned for posting off topic

This is a sensitive area, and I understand that this makes for fairly incensed conversation sometimes. This does not mean the rules do not apply, whether to a poster positing a Pro-Ukraine stance or a poster positing an alternative view.

Behave, people.

 

[Zidane98]

Nah, this is fake news. He may well have a few swiss accounts and he'd be smart to do so, no evidence of it though.

Paris or London is where he's going anyway

Nope. He's not a coward like #pedoputin who has Iran, North Korea & Venezuela lined up as his next place of residence should he not be taken out in another insurrection.

 

[barreness]

Nope. He's not a coward like #pedoputin who has Iran, North Korea & Venezuela lined up as his next place of residence should he not be taken out in another insurrection.

Pedo? idk is he?

There's no shame in going into exile, it's the sane thing most overthrown govts do, better than being strung up

 

[Zidane98]

Pedo? idk is he?

There's no shame in going into exile, it's the sane thing most overthrown govts do, better than being strung up

He has ICC charges against him for kidnapping children from Ukraine to Russia against their will and brainwashing them on a large, coordinated scale through Russian filtration camps.

 

[barreness]

He has ICC charges against him for kidnapping children from Ukraine to Russia against their will and brainwashing them on a large, coordinated scale through Russian filtration camps.

So not a pedo?

Just a war criminal, your mind running away with itself again Zidane

 

[IlovethePies]

Britain and France needs to stop the genocide in Gaza, with nuclear deterrence.
But, it's one battle at a time.

As for nuclear deterrence, are you really suggesting that they should threaten to strike Israel with a nuclear weapon??

In any case, Britain and France won't stop the genocide - Macron and Starmer both agree with it. Both countries have been, and no doubt still are, supplying military components to Israel, and always vote against any UN resolution attempting to mildly criticise Israel's genocide.

 

[IlovethePies]

Pedo? idk is he?

There's no shame in going into exile, it's the sane thing most overthrown govts do, better than being strung up

Yep, as I think you mentioned, Putin was paying attention to the fate of other targets of imperialism, such as Saddam Hussein, Colonel Gaddafi and Milosevic.

It also turns out that being a puppet of US imperialism is no guarantee of safety either, as Zel is finding out.

 

[IlovethePies]

France and Britain have entered into nuclear escalation, for the first time.
Russia is on notice now.
France and Britain will send it's troops into Ukraine.

France and Britain, along with Germany and of course the US (while Biden/Harris were still at the helm) were engaging in nuclear escalation during the entire war.

Every action they took was aimed at throwing oil on the fire.

So their attempts now to keep the war going are nothing new.

 

[IlovethePies]

America is becoming a loser country as trump would say, no influence, crap healthcare, homelessness , no gun control, racisim bigotry and Zelensky doesn't need him.

If these are the criteria you use to define 'loserism' the US was already a loser country under Biden.
As for "Zelensky not needing him" you have got it around the wrong way. The US no longer needs the services of Zelensky.

 

[Aussie in exile]

France and Britain, along with Germany and of course the US (while Biden/Harris were still at the helm) were engaging in nuclear escalation during the entire war.

Every action they took was aimed at throwing oil on the fire.

So their attempts now to keep the war going are nothing new.

Remind me how many times has Russia threatened to Nuck Ukraine?

 

[Aristotle Pickett the3rd]

If these are the criteria you use to define 'loserism' the US was already a loser country under Biden.
As for "Zelensky not needing him" you have got it around the wrong way. The US no longer needs the services of Zelensky.

America is going down the tube and causing a world recession on their way down.

 

[ferball]

So not a pedo?

Just a war criminal, your mind running away with itself again Zidane

Three months before he was poisoned with polonium Alexander Litvinenko wrote an article claiming Putin was a pedo and that was the reason he had never risen as far as he should have in the KGB - he was too easy to compromise.

The article was in response to a bizarre incident where at a public event where Putin lifted a nine year old boys shirt up and kissed him on the belly button.

Litvinenko was working for the British at the time so he could have just made it up but he may also have touched a nerve.

 

[Baldur]

 

[IlovethePies]

America is going down the tube and causing a world recession on their way down.

Agreed.
The US has been in decline since the 80's, under Republican and Democrat administrations alike.
Now the descent is spiralling out of control
And yes, the crash of American capitalism will bring the entire global economy down with it.
But this in no way contradicts the fact that Trump has concluded that the US no longer needs Zelensky.
The crisis of US capitalism is driving the US ruling class into making decisions contrary to previous policies. It is the crisis that is driving the erratic foreign policy shifts of the Trump administration.

 

[wannabejack]

Germany’s Friedrich Merz, poised to be his country’s next chancellor, said he thinks the explosive exchange between Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky and President Trump on Friday resulted from a “deliberate escalation” by the U.S.

He added that the incident appeared to fit a trend in U.S. foreign policy, as Trump has ramped up pressure on Zelensky while thawing relations with Putin.

“There is a certain sequence in a number of events in recent weeks and months, including the appearance of the American delegation in Munich at the security conference, and we are now seeing it from Washington,” Merz said at the press conference.

 

[wannabejack]

EU Сhief Unveils 800-Billion-Euro European Defence Plan

“ReArm Europe” could mobilise close to 800 billion euros of defence expenditures for a safe and resilient Europe.

www.kyivpost.com

EU chief Ursula von der Leyen Tuesday presented a five-part plan to mobilise some 800 billion euros for Europe’s defence -- and help provide “immediate” military support for Ukraine after Washington suspended aid.

“Europe faces a clear and present danger on a scale that none of us has seen in our adult lifetime,” she wrote, as she outlined options for funding a European defence surge.

 

[Aristotle Pickett the3rd]

Agreed.
The US has been in decline since the 80's, under Republican and Democrat administrations alike.
Now the descent is spiralling out of control
And yes, the crash of American capitalism will bring the entire global economy down with it.
But this in no way contradicts the fact that Trump has concluded that the US no longer needs Zelensky.
The crisis of US capitalism is driving the US ruling class into making decisions contrary to previous policies. It is the crisis that is driving the erratic foreign policy shifts of the Trump administration.

Trump might not need Zelensky but it is damaging the US reputation to abandon a sovereign country from an invasion of a corrupt dictatorship that will be emboldened to occupy other countries

 

[IlovethePies]

The European capitalist class is more and more seeing the US as the real enemy, even more than Russia. In its editorial, Le Monde describes Trump's decision to unilaterally suspend all military aid to Ukraine as a

"knife in the back to Europe."

" Trump knows perfectly well that Europe is not in a position in the short term to make up for the removal of American assistance to Ukraine.

"In Trump's vision of the world, yesterday's allies have become today's enemies, as confirmed by the trade war launched on March 3 against Mexico and Canada, historic partners of the US, now treated with no differently than the main US rival, China.

"Furthermore, Trump has no intention of allowing Europe a breathing space so that it can organise itself in order to make up for the withdrawal of the US. He is likewise threatening Europe with trade war measures.

Trump is cornering Europe. He believes that Europe is totally incapable of standing up to a double challenge: a security one, as well as a commercial one."

 

[IlovethePies]

Trump might not need Zelensky but it is damaging the US reputation to abandon a sovereign country from an invasion of a corrupt dictatorship that will be emboldened to occupy other countries

Sections of the US ruling class (those politically represented by the Democrats) are indeed fearful of the reputational damage that Trump will do the pretentions of US imperialism to defend democracy and freedom.

But such fears for the reputation of the US are irrelevant to the current administration, which is launching a war of America against the entire world. The Trump admin represents those sections of the financial oligarchy who are done with Biden's policies, and have now openly adopted a foreign policy of economic war, imperialist annexation, and militarism (just not necessarily the same targets that the Democrats were prioritising).

The current conflict being played out in the US ruling class between the Democrats and the Republicans is not about Trump's violation of the US constitution, deportation of immigrants, mass sackings in the Federal government, and attacks on public health. The Democrats don't care at all about these. All they care about is the war in Ukraine. The Democrats want the war to continue against Russia. They want more Ukrainians to die for their geopolitical aims. They also believe that it serves US interests to maintain the NATO alliance, under US control.

On the other hand, Trump believes that this policy has failed. It has cost billions and achieved nothing. So alternative and more effective channels of US military aggression must be found, and NATO according to Trump is simply a relic of a bygone era.

 

[Visions]

The donkeys must be on strike......

 

[The Dice Man]

 

[Tadpole]

The donkeys must be on strike......

The donkeys just didn't want to be made an ass of any more, by having anything to do with that mob.

 

[barreness]

Three months before he was poisoned with polonium Alexander Litvinenko wrote an article claiming Putin was a pedo and that was the reason he had never risen as far as he should have in the KGB - he was too easy to compromise.

The article was in response to a bizarre incident where at a public event where Putin lifted a nine year old boys shirt up and kissed him on the belly button.

Litvinenko was working for the British at the time so he could have just made it up but he may also have touched a nerve.

ooooft, now that is interesting

 

[barreness]

America is going down the tube and causing a world recession on their way down.

Good tbh, why are we pretending the end of the US empire is a bad thing

 

[Jello_B]

Zelenskyy proposal for a ban on use of long range missiles and drones on energy and civilian infrastructure as a first step toward peace is a good idea.
If they can agree that, and do a deal on a Ukraine - US partnership for developing the Ukrainian mining sector (assuming this is fair both ways) that’s at least some progress.

 

[Jello_B]

Good tbh, why are we pretending the end of the US empire is a bad thing

Depends on what it’s being replaced with