War over Warnock

[Canyouhearthedrums]

Speaking of riduculous analogies. This one is just plain stupid!!! Do lawyers get drafted??? Can they get traded??? The AFL is totally different kettle of fish to a law firm. Why would you even bother comparing them???

Because both are professionals utilising a particular set of skills. It doesn't matter one iota how a player gets to the club (tbh, I'd say that having no say about where you end up should give an employee an even stronger right to choose his next employer for himself).

Footballers are professionals, same as lawyers. Look around the world's sporting competitions. The AFL is the only major compeition in the world without free agency. Why? because other sports apply labour laws to their athletes in the same way they do everyone else.

Ever heard of the Bosman ruling? Probably not, but I'll explain it to you. There was a footballer from Belgium called Jean-Marc Bosman. He got pissed off that his club still had the right to trade him, even after a contract had expired. He challenged it in the European Court of Justice on the basis that it breached the international norms of labour law regarding freedom of association and the free movement of workers. Funnily enough, he won, and now footballers in europe can go where they want, for free, once a contract has expired. Their clubs have no control over them.

And before you go on about this being Australia, not Europe, I can assure you that these same principles are enshrined in Australian law too.

 

[Eagle87]

There is a big difference between offering pick 24 for Warnock, and 18 for Gibbs.

The difference is an insulting offer compared to a reasonable one

In your opinion.

In the Dockers view they see a 21 year old ruckman who is ahead of Cox and Sandilands at the same age.

The point is that clearly Gibbs would be worth a Top 10 but if the Eagles (in my fictitious example) said that 18 is our best pick other than the untouchable pick 2 and we have no reasonable way of getting a higher pick, what would happen?

The reality is that Warnock is much better than Cameron Wood (14 last year) and he is much better than a 23 year old Darren Jolly (pick 12, 4 years ago). In this years draft he would be the 4th pick 9 at worst but as we all have an inflated view of draft picks he is only worth 24?

You are bending Freo over because you can and smugly saying that, as pick 6 is too high (because we say so), are next best is 24 and, as its our next best, it must be fair.

He is worth, at least a pick in the 12 - 16 range and you could get one of those picks by traded a required player. You are all about added quality and giving up nothing (as are all clubs) and you are rogering Freo roughly from behind with the proposed deal - which is again fine. Just dont all wander around this board acting like you are doing Freo a favour - thats all I was trying to point out.

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

Mediation my arse. What the hell is Icke on about?? If Carlton's best offer is 24 and Freo rejects it, they have every bloody right.

For Blues to get it done, they probably need to bring in a third party (another club). It's not that hard is it??

 

[Salaryman]

Really? Have you got confirmation of that, or have you gleaned that from a throw away line from Steven Icke on radio 6PR the other evening? And before you say "throw away line"?, yes I did listen to the interview and it was a throw away line.

I'm sure Icke made that up, and said officials are happy about it, but if you want to play semantics about throw away lines.....but that combined with Bluebears excellent posts about the AFL GC17 trade fairness guidelines, pick 24 seems to be commonly accepted as reasonable to most, aside from the rather hysterical Freo supporters on BF

 

[Cruiser23]

Stop making shit up FFS. Why are Melbourne willing to part with #19 if 24 is more then reasonable?

Um, have you looked at the Dees rucking department of late?

 

[sharpie]

Rubbish mate, there is 4 picks difference considering the Dockers have one in between. It is very even from late 1st round to the end of the second IMO, Kevin Sheehan recognizes the same things saying 32 of the top players are worthy first rounders, i think he'd have a little more of an idea about talent than you would.

I think you miss the point.

The 32 players are largely irrelevant

It is the quality of the WA players that counts.

Players in the top 10 will go regardless of their origin - as their talent is such.

However those picks in the 2nd round will more than likley be WA players.

So if the depth in WA players isn;t there - freo lose out.

It is a very valid point

 

[Salaryman]

Mediation my arse. What the hell is Icke on about?? If Carlton's best offer is 24 and Freo rejects it, they have every bloody right.

For Blues to get it done, they probably need to bring in a third party (another club). It's not that hard is it??

LOL, apparently it is. It makes me laugh that people think it is easy to bring in a third party, when the very deal they want to bring it in for is in stalemate....imagine having 2 in stalemate, seriously some people should think before they type.

 

[Embers]

Um, have you looked at the Dees rucking department of late?

Paul Johnson would get a game for you. Heck id prefer Jamar to Cloke too.

 

[Bradesmaen]

Um, have you looked at the Dees rucking department of late?

Point being? Your club seems to be hellbent on getting Robbie there, so obviously they think yours is shit too.

 

[Canyouhearthedrums]

In your opinion.

In the Dockers view they see a 21 year old ruckman who is ahead of Cox and Sandilands at the same age.

The point is that clearly Gibbs would be worth a Top 10 but if the Eagles (in my fictitious example) said that 18 is our best pick other than the untouchable pick 2 and we have no reasonable way of getting a higher pick, what would happen?

The reality is that Warnock is much better than Cameron Wood (14 last year) and he is much better than a 23 year old Darren Jolly (pick 12, 4 years ago). In this years draft he would be the 4th pick 9 at worst but as we all have an inflated view of draft picks he is only worth 24?

You are bending Freo over because you can and smugly saying that, as pick 6 is too high (because we say so), are next best is 24 and, as its our next best, it must be fair.

He is worth, at least a pick in the 12 - 16 range and you could get one of those picks by traded a required player. You are all about added quality and giving up nothing (as are all clubs) and you are rogering Freo roughly from behind with the proposed deal - which is again fine. Just dont all wander around this board acting like you are doing Freo a favour - thats all I was trying to point out.

If Warnock is that good, fine, I agree with you. And us Carlton fans will have to take our medicine, particularly after benefitting from the Judd situation last year.

But this is a bloke who struggled at WAFL level at times last year, and whose only dominate game at AFL level came against the mighty Setanta O'Ahlphin and Cain Ackland.

And like I said in the other thread, stop using Wood as an example. Pies paid a bit of the odds cause of a need for a ruckman and the fact he was still under contract

 

[M-Train]

What is this crap with the AFL bringing in a mediator?

Does the AFL want Warnock at Carlton? Has Pratt giving Vladimir a couple of dollars under the table?

Where was the mediator trying to get Nick Stevens to Collingwood in 2004?

(or the hundred other talked-about trades that have never happened)

 

[Lach72]

Freo are the only ones that can loose out here.
Warnock is no Judd........ If Carlton don't get him......so What?
No 6 might get them Vickery in the Draft or 24 Seaby at the Trade table or no ruckman at all and just persist with their young ruckmen and Cloke....it's no big deal.
I'm no Carlton lover but I just don,t see the value of Warnock in this draft at anything more than the offered 24.
The market always dictates the price in any business......A quality ruckman like MacIntost didn't get a bid........Market Price= What you get.

Are you suggesting they use pick 6 for an ubntried ruckman with potential?

 

[Jurica Stockade]

Bower don't want to play for Freo.....

Dont think Kennedy wanted to leave the Blues either.

 

[Salaryman]

I think you miss the point.

The 32 players are largely irrelevant

It is the quality of the WA players that counts.

Players in the top 10 will go regardless of their origin - as their talent is such.

However those picks in the 2nd round will more than likley be WA players.

So if the depth in WA players isn;t there - freo lose out.

It is a very valid point

Again the magical WA players hovering around the 17-23 mark...remarkable...never seen a draft like it!!

....i just looked at my list and I have one WA player ranked between 17 and 23....perhaps they can get him with their pick 21?

 

[Embers]

If Warnock is that good, fine, I agree with you. And us Carlton fans will have to take their medicine, particularly after benefitting from the Judd situation last year.

But this is a bloke who struggled at WAFL level at times last year, and whose only dominate game at AFL level came against the mighty Setanta O'Ahlphin and Cain Ackland.

And like I said in the other thread, stop using Wood as an example. Pies paid a bit of the odds cause of a need for a ruckman and the fact he was still under contract

Your the ones paying 400k a year for said WAFL plodder

 

[Canyouhearthedrums]

Your the ones paying 400k a year for said WAFL plodder

Not everyone thinks he's worth that

 

[yibbida]

Dont think Kennedy wanted to leave the Blues either.

He didn't, but he came around to the idea or returning to WA and knowing if he caused the Judd deal to fall over he would be the most hated man at Carlton.

If Bower stays and we don't get Warnock, I don't think anyone will boo him....

 

[Cruiser23]

Point being? Your club seems to be hellbent on getting Robbie there, so obviously they think yours is shit too.

Yeh, thats why we have not increased our offer, we want him that badly

 

[sharpie]

Again the magical WA players hovering around the 17-23 mark...remarkable...never seen a draft like it!!

....i just looked at my list and I have one WA player ranked between 17 and 23....perhaps they can get him with their pick 21?

Be dispassionate.

Both clubs have lost players in the past few years back to Victoria. As a matter - it is a lot easier for a player to return to Melbourne, then for one to return to Perth.

WA clubs will have a preference for picking local kids.

If it was a matter of picking a WA player who may be rated 22 at pick 18 - the eagles would do it - because the rick associated with a non-WA player are greater. It's just how it is.

I think Carlton should just walk from the deal - take their chances inthe PSD - they risk nothing and stand to gain a lot.

 

[Embers]

Not everyone thinks he's worth that

Then why are you offering him that. Why is he gonna earn more then Marc Murphy....

 

[Bradesmaen]

Yeh, thats why we have not increased our offer, we want him that badly

So if we knocked you back, why did you call for mediation? Surely if we knock you back you walk away?

Pwned.

 

[XXX KINGS]

Then why are you offering him that. Why is he gonna earn more then Marc Murphy....

You know how much Marc Murphy is earning?

You know how much Warnock will be paid?

 

[douls]

So if we knocked you back, why did you call for mediation? Surely if we knock you back you walk away?

Pwned.

Wrong.

Only a player or their agent can call for mediation

 

[Canyouhearthedrums]

Then why are you offering him that. Why is he gonna earn more then Marc Murphy....

Firstly, no one really knows what we've offered.

Secondly, if the figures being bandied about are true, my only theory is that Carlton have offered him a pay packet over the odds to ensure he wants to come to us, which puts us in a stronger bargaining position. Bascially deciding to pay a bit of money to get him at a cheaper price.

Third, if I were marc Murphy and I was earning less than Warnock, I would be pissed off.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Then why are you offering him that. Why is he gonna earn more then Marc Murphy....

He was in the open market. You pay more to get the commitment, and their next contract is more reflective of where they are at. Murphy was ours to begin with. You have to get these guys into your club environment first. They have no friends there, no real motivation for being there aside from what you can offer them. Once there they have friendships, are part of a team, want to win for each other, the comraderie is a big part of why players stay for less.