Play Nice Was that Gaffs last game for WC?

[threesixpio]

Assault is assault. The incident is completely independent of the football game they were playing. If they press charges (which I don't think will happen), he will be held accountable just as any other person in society.

I don’t agree with this - in fact it’s making my brain hurt. Look at some case law around consent, sport and assault and post something mildly intelligent

 

[Power Raid]

Serious?

yep serious. It is the law, so either repeal the laws or enforce them.

https://www.foleys.com.au/resources/Voluntary Assumption of Risk_15Oct2015.pdf

The punch was not part of the game, rather an act of his own folly, thus not accepted risk by Brayshaw.
If this was a lower level game, amateurs, he would be criminally responsible.
One punch attacks can cause fatalities and the AFL bosses ARE "criminally" responsible for deaths in the work place and their only defence is having strong process and monitoring. In this case, their only choice is to refer the matter to the courts or ban Gaff for life or run the risk of criminal prosecution in the future. I would suggest b) and c) are not the preferred solutions.

If rubbing sand paper on a cricket ball is 12 months, what do you get for grievance bodily harm? The answer has to be a criminal conviction.

 

[Forward Press]

PowerRaid is right that a criminal prosecution is not impossible. The law around this is actually quite odd as it is guided by judicial policy as much as it is by precedent. The policy itself is guided by norms in the sport.

This makes a departure from judicial policy to stay out of the sporting arena more likely in a context where the sport itself flat out no longer condones this type of behaviour.

Still don’t think it will happen but it’s actually quite legally interesting

I agree it's not impossible but the likelihood is very low. What has happened yesterday that now convinces the police to step in and charge Gaff, and not in previous instances?

 

[Coasters7]

http://cowardspunchcampaign.com/

No idea what that’s got to do with anything? Not like all 22 players started laying into Brayshaw, absolutely nothing to do with the club as a whole or any of its supporter base. Jonas hit on Gaff puts all Power fans in the same category then I assume?

 

[Wargreymon90]

I don’t agree with this - in fact it’s making my brain hurt. Look at some case law around consent, sport and assault and post something mildly intelligent

I studied this exact topic. Where did I go wrong?

 

[threesixpio]

I agree it's not impossible but the likelihood is very low. What has happened yesterday that now convinces the police to step in and charge Gaff, and not in previous instances?

Like I said - the moving feast is arguably the sport itself and the cultural norms set up by the AFL.

But yeah - I agree it’s unlikely

 

[Scotland]

Hall wasn't even celebrated by his own club. Simpson gave Gaff a pat on the head and a solid 'I'm not angry but I am disappointed' Dad look. Paul Roos gave Hall death stares in the rooms at half time.

 

[threesixpio]

I studied this exact topic. Where did I go wrong?

Not sure. Maybe start with the boxing case of Pallente or Brown vs The Queen which distinguishes it 40 years later.

My favourite thing about Brown is how it is about a gay orgy with fishhooks in genitals and they raise the boxing case of Pallente stating that there was no “fishhook in genital umpire”. Not really - but kind of.

Cannot consent to an injury (but there is a judicial policy to stay out of the sporting arena and consent is implied and the presence of rules, norms and umpires is relevant)

Nice one House of Lords

By the way - Brown was a homophobic piece of shit of a case

 

[TheStinger]

Why is this seemingly worse than say the Barry Hall punch? I say seemingly because people are asking for a longer suspension than Hall. To me it is fairly similar.

 

[Bender571]

I don't buy the "he was aiming for his chest". If you accidentally hit someone in the face you would realise instantly and go "shit, I didn't mean that" and then check to make sure they were ok. Instead Gaff just jogs on without even looking back.

Also Brayshaw is already quite crouched when Gaff winds up the punch, it's actually Gaff raising up (putting all his power into the punch).

Gaff is looking straight at him too.

 

[Forward Press]

Why is this seemingly worse than say the Barry Hall punch? I say seemingly because people are asking for a longer suspension than Hall. To me it is fairly similar.

Staker 'merely' got concussed and a bruised jaw while Brayshaw lost a few teeth and had his jaw actually broken.

In this respect if you believe that the result should influence the suspension it is a fair argument to make.

 

[Jase Cutler]

As a lawyer, there are clear distinctions and consequences between injuring someone on the field during a competitive contact sports game, and in civil life. Essentially, to be effectively prosecuted in court, the prosecutor will need to argue the action was so unreasonable that the victim could not have foreseen such an incident (or alternatively, the action was so unreasonable and reckless, that it was not deemed to be a proper incident of the game).* It's a tough case for the prosecutor, particularly as most sportsmen don't act with the intention of maliciously injuring someone.

*I'm not a Sports lawyer, but that criteria would not be far off.

 

[Andrew Mc]

Hall wasn't even celebrated by his own club. Simpson gave Gaff a pat on the head and a solid 'I'm not angry but I am disappointed' Dad look. Paul Roos gave Hall death stares in the rooms at half time.

I was on holidays at the time, so can't say what was posted here, but when I saw it on replay I wasn't impressed and thought he'd be spending a good time away from the game.

 

[Beutbrute]

WC finding the best QC's in the world right now

Better call Saul

 

[Power Raid]

I personally disagree with the teenager aspect of the issue. However:

"The AFL's legal counsel, Jeff Gleeson, accepted there was no malice in Naitanui's tackle, but argued that the Eagle, at 110kg, hadn't exercised his duty of care to a player he outweighed by about 30kg."

It will be interesting to see if age is an issue for "duty of care". Society says you don't hit kids, women, boys (18yo's are boys), king hit, kick on the ground etc etc. These are well established community values for duty of care.

 

[threesixpio]

As a lawyer, there are clear distinctions and consequences between injuring someone on the field during a competitive contact sports game, and in civil life. Essentially, to be effectively prosecuted in court, the prosecutor will need to argue the action was so unreasonable that the victim could not have foreseen such an incident. It's a tough case for the prosecutor.

I had no idea that punching someone hard in the face could loose a couple of teeth...

 

[Wargreymon90]

Not sure. Maybe start with the boxing case of Pallente or Brown vs The Queen which distinguishes it 40 years later.

My favourite thing about Brown is how it is about a gay orgy with fishhooks in genitals and they raise the boxing case of Pallente stating that there was no “fishhook in genital umpire”. Not really - but kind of.

Cannot consent to an injury (but there is a judicial policy to stay out of the sporting arena and consent is implied and the presence of rules, norms and umpires is relevant)

Nice one House of Lords

By the way - Brown was a homophobic piece of shit of a case

See you are citing all these cases and are attempting to fit in as much legal jargon possible to make you sound like you know what you are talking about. But you're not actually focusing on what really matters.

Do footballers consent to level of risk of being seriously injured ? Yes - (high bumps, stray elbows,
Does this extend to getting punched in the face? Absolutely not!

 

[JackOutback]

Hall wasn't even celebrated by his own club. Simpson gave Gaff a pat on the head and a solid 'I'm not angry but I am disappointed' Dad look. Paul Roos gave Hall death stares in the rooms at half time.

Simpson is a new age dad, Roos is the kind that gets the belt for talking sass.

 

[threesixpio]

As a lawyer, there are clear distinctions and consequences between injuring someone on the field during a competitive contact sports game, and in civil life. Essentially, to be effectively prosecuted in court, the prosecutor will need to argue the action was so unreasonable that the victim could not have foreseen such an incident. It's a tough case for the prosecutor.

Oh sorry - the victim? Really?

 

[threesixpio]

See you are citing all these cases and are attempting to fit in as much legal jargon possible to make you sound like you know what you are talking about. But you're not actually focusing on what really matters.

Do footballers consent to level of risk of being seriously injured ? Yes - (high bumps, stray elbows,
Does this extend to getting punched in the face? Absolutely not!

That’s a better question. Not sure

 

[ROYAL EAGLE]

I personally think it was a swinging left jumper punch after Brayshaw pushed him in the right shoulder.
He didnt expect his punch to go so high and Brayshaw was leaning forward so it copped him under the chin.
So I dont think he meant it, doesnt seem to be that player and his contrition seemed genuine,

Having said that I love young Brayshaw quality kid, now his jaw is broken and season over.

So no matter that I dont think GAff meant it, its done and he needs to be punished.
The fact that Gaff has never been reported before and was a cleanskin, cant mitigate the damage done
to Brayshaw.

So for me that's 6 weeks and season over for Gaff.

Unfortunately that means we will need a miracle to win the premiership this year as we have no
replacement for him in our squad.
Dom Sheed is most likely replacement but he has been poor this year at afl level, and he has the worst final record of any player on
our list.

 

[kaiserchief13]

PowerRaid is right that a criminal prosecution is not impossible. The law around this is actually quite odd as it is guided by judicial policy as much as it is by precedent. The policy itself is guided by norms in the sport.

This makes a departure from judicial policy to stay out of the sporting arena more likely in a context where the sport itself flat out no longer condones this type of behaviour.

Still don’t think it will happen but it’s actually quite legally interesting

They can't do it as the AFL would have to come out and say any future punches could be punished by law, prior to this occurring.

 

[Power Raid]

No idea what that’s got to do with anything? Not like all 22 players started laying into Brayshaw, absolutely nothing to do with the club as a whole or any of its supporter base. Jonas hit on Gaff puts all Power fans in the same category then I assume?

struggle with basic concepts? I guess it's hard when you can't keep focus on the topic at hand.

Danny Green's campaign is to stop one punch assaults. I wonder how long before the media approach Danny for comment.

 

[Wargreymon90]

As a lawyer, there are clear distinctions and consequences between injuring someone on the field during a competitive contact sports game, and in civil life. Essentially, to be effectively prosecuted in court, the prosecutor will need to argue the action was so unreasonable that the victim could not have foreseen such an incident (or alternatively, the action was so unreasonable and reckless, that it was not in be deemed a proper incident of the game).* It's a tough case for the prosecutor.

*I'm not a Sports lawyer, but that criteria would not be far off.

I would have though caving someones face in 50m off the ball would be straight forward for a prosecutor

 

[Scotland]

Why is this seemingly worse than say the Barry Hall punch? I say seemingly because people are asking for a longer suspension than Hall. To me it is fairly similar.

Intent/action - not worse
Outcome - appears worse, though you could mount arguments RE: the ongoing effects of concussions

At first glace the Gaff hit looks pretty innocuous, but Brayshaw has a broken jaw.