Roast We are Very Overrated

[davywap]

Well we are probably at 3 seasons away at least to getting back up the Ladder

 

[davywap]

So the AFL is Hurting AFL in it’s homeland so the can Try(and Fail) to take over in the Rugby States?

This is the first post with merit I've seen from you in this thread.

 

[davywap]

Look, how many of you said we were going to be top 4 before the season started? My guess is 0. The general consensus from memory was finishing anywhere from 6th-10th, after round 1 the usual suspects had us bottom 4. Now it looks like we'll almost definitely finish where everyone said we would, but now this means that the sky is falling because of a pretty good 1st half of the season.
We are the 4th youngest list in the AFL this year, and 2 of the 3 younger lists are GWS and Gold Coast which are filled with the best young players of the past 3-4 years (really why is anyone so surprised Gold Coast beat us? Ok we ****ed up but I tipped them and thought it would be more). I've seen time and time again teams filled with young guns start off well and then fade into the season as they don't have the seasons of hardened pre-season training and games behind them. Is anyone here old enough to remember the 2000 season? We won our first 5 games and ended up with 7 wins with a young list.
Now that there is young players around them instead of older or same-aged guns, players like H and Blair are struggling with less support. Take a look at good old D.Thomas over at the scum and see how well he's going with shit around him.

Here's why I think from next year on we should be on the up and if not I'll then be worried (barring significant injuries):

• All of our young players will be a year older with another pre-season behind them, e.g. Witts, Grundy, Adams, Kennedy, Langdon, J.Thomas, Broomhead, Williams, Elliott, Frost, Seedsman. These players should start to overtake aforementioned struggling senior players.
• Ben Reid, Fasolo & N.Brown will be like new recruits, hopefully Swan will be fully fit and back to best too
• Two top-10 draft picks with in Sharenberg and Freeman will come in
• More draft picks and hopefully a couple of handy trade/free-agency picks ups come in (Jeremy Cameron anyone?)
• Darcy Moore
• Hopefully teams like Hawthorn, Geelong and Freo begin to slide a little (think it's already happening with former 2)

If we don't improve next year I'll be worried, but if you actually think we'll get worse based on this year you have rocks in your head.

This year is panning out as almost everyone predicted for us, so please stop your sooking.

 

[Krueger]

Ha if things dont change they will get worse. We cant rely on our star players winning games off their own boots every week. Where have we improved over the last few years? Its not all of a sudden going change overnight and our skills are not going to become Hawthorn like during the off season.

 

[MarkT2]

Look, how many of you said we were going to be top 4 before the season started?

Lots.

 

[PhiloBeddoe]

Ha if things dont change they will get worse. We cant rely on our star players winning games off their own boots every week. Where have we improved over the last few years? Its not all of a sudden going change overnight and our skills are not going to become Hawthorn like during the off season.

I've said it a few times in here. Rectify the leading patterns of our players and you go along way to fixing the kicking.

 

[Quicky]

I've said it a few times in here. Rectify the leading patterns of our players and you go along way to fixing the kicking.

This is an interesting observation. Where do you think we are going wrong with our leading patterns? What do you think we need to do to redress the issue?

 

[PhiloBeddoe]

This is an interesting observation. Where do you think we are going wrong with our leading patterns? What do you think we need to do to redress the issue?

I thank the member, Quicky for the question. Haha
It's more of an issue coming out of the back half and going into the forward fifty. Bucks has straightened them and when going through the middle, they are trying to hit up leads coming straight at them. Should it drop short or be too high, the ball is in dispute in the middle of the ground and our crumbers haven't been good enough to help out.
Our forwards playing up high are either too slow to move or make leads that are too one dimensional. I think they get caught in the wrong positions when the ball is coming off half back and when the ball is on the wing. Get caught in the wrong spot and you have to re-think the lead. The result can be a half arsed lead just meant to make it look like you're doing something.
I know everyone talks of Hawthorn's ball use but they're leading players seem infinitely brighter than ours. They lead well into space, no matter where and the ball is floated to a zone in front of them. Hawthorn will use a player anywhere on the ground if the lead is good enough. They get to maintain possession and keep the ball moving. They are difficult to combat because as an opposition, the only area where you can be absolutely certain the ball will end up is through the goals or points. Until that point, have fun trying to work out where they're going with he next possession.
Sort of answer your question? Sorry about the length.
P.s. floating to a zone out in front of a player is a simpler kick than a straight kick to a target leading at you.

 

[Number 10]

Unfit because of the ****ing campaigners who can't train our players.

Have a sub par midfield. All gone backwards this year except for Pendles who has stagnated.

Horrible fwd line with only 3 actual FORWARDS on the list.

A backline that can defend to a C grade level but any form of offensive skill is lacking.

 

[Captivating]

We have an overrated Coach.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

Im not seeing much hope here. Does Buckley keep his job after 2 more years of this?

If I'm being honest, I don't think he keeps his job past this season. Yeah, we have injuries, but injuries are no excuse for the effort of the 22 that go out there and the 22 that went out there today still consisted of a lot of premiership players as well as just general experienced players.

Either Bucks is still REALLY struggling to get everyone on board or he's just a flat out shit coach.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

Lots.

I'll put my hand up. I did. We'll be lucky to make the 8 now. Very lucky. I'm more than happy to admit when I'm wrong. Do I want Malthouse back? F**k no, but I don't think I want Bucks coaching either anymore.

I think we need to do a Freo and just take Clarkson off Hawthorn. Write a cheque the size of WHATEVER IT TAKES.

 

[TradeDraft]

We have an overrated Coach.

Who Can’t Coach.

Dale Tapping is the Best Coach at the Club

 

[MarkT2]

I'll put my hand up. I did. We'll be lucky to make the 8 now. Very lucky. I'm more than happy to admit when I'm wrong. Do I want Malthouse back? F**k no, but I don't think I want Bucks coaching either anymore.

I think we need to do a Freo and just take Clarkson off Hawthorn. Write a cheque the size of WHATEVER IT TAKES.

I don't think Buckley's coaching is the problem. I think his belief in attitude or culture or whatever it is referred to as is simplistic, cliched and downright idiotic and it makes me angry to see what we have done to the list as a result. "Old fashioned" coaches like Mathews and Malthouse were successful at least in part because they were pragmatic in their approach to dealing with the talent.

Move on the players that can't deal with different rules for different players not the different players. Mathews used Aka until the cons outweighed the pros. Meanwhile he was a huge contributor to 3 flags.

I wouldn't go back to MM but, I'd swap Buckley for Clarkson in a heartbeat. The problem is, there is no way in hell our egomaniac president would contemplate it. Eddie is our greatest strength and our greatest weakness.

 

[TradeDraft]

I am getting More Right by each round

 

[TradeDraft]

I don't think Buckley's coaching is the problem. I think his belief in attitude or culture or whatever it is referred to as is simplistic, cliched and downright idiotic and it makes me angry to see what we have done to the list as a result. "Old fashioned" coaches like Mathews and Malthouse were successful at least in part because they were pragmatic in their approach to dealing with the talent.

Move on the players that can't deal with different rules for different players not the different players. Mathews used Aka until the cons outweighed the pros. Meanwhile he was a huge contributor to 3 flags.

I wouldn't go back to MM but, I'd swap Buckley for Clarkson in a heartbeat. The problem is, there is no way in hell our egomaniac president would contemplate it. Eddie is our greatest strength and our greatest weakness.

Getting rid of Dawes was Idotic

Agree with Eddie. He helps us a lot but can hurt us just as much. He relays in his mates and yes men too much

 

[artvandelay92]

Over a week later and I'm still disgusted by the showing last week against the Dons. Having followed the Pies for 22 years, that was the worst showing I've ever seen from them. A 64 point loss to a mediocre Essendon side missing its two best players wasn't a random occurence though, it's been building since the end of 2011. I was so enraged after the game that I penned this article to articulate exactly how far the Pies have fallen since the flag year, which was supposed to be the start of a dynasty but only served as a prelude to disappointment.

 

[ottoman]

Over a week later and I'm still disgusted by the showing last week against the Dons. Having followed the Pies for 22 years, that was the worst showing I've ever seen from them. A 64 point loss to a mediocre Essendon side missing its two best players wasn't a random occurence though, it's been building since the end of 2011. I was so enraged after the game that I penned this article to articulate exactly how far the Pies have fallen since the flag year, which was supposed to be the start of a dynasty but only served as a prelude to disappointment.

Nice article

 

[davywap]

Shit article

Fixed

 

[jmac70]

Over a week later and I'm still disgusted by the showing last week against the Dons. Having followed the Pies for 22 years, that was the worst showing I've ever seen from them. A 64 point loss to a mediocre Essendon side missing its two best players wasn't a random occurence though, it's been building since the end of 2011. I was so enraged after the game that I penned this article to articulate exactly how far the Pies have fallen since the flag year, which was supposed to be the start of a dynasty but only served as a prelude to disappointment.

I stopped reading when you said the current side is largely comprised of players from the 2011 side.

 

[artvandelay92]

I stopped reading when you said the current side is largely comprised of players from the 2011 side.

When the article was written a fortnight ago, 19 players from 2011 were still on our list. 11 who played in the grand final that year are on the team this year, and that bumps up to 14 when you include Beams, Goldsack and Macaffer who didn't play in the grand final but I'm sure we can agree were very much a part of the main playing group. 14 players = significant carryover.

 

[TradeDraft]

Watching FoxSports News today and they said we could make the Top 4 Next Year

 

[Gone Critical]

We still have 14 of the 2010 premiership 22 on the list so we still have a core of really experienced players who have been there done that. It is that factor more than any other that disappoints me this year. Yes we have had injuries and had to play a little more of the younger players than expected but we have lost games this year we shouldn't have.

Bulldogs
Gold Coast
Adelaide

All those games were there for the taking. Good sides win even with some adversity. Our leaders didn't stand up in the last Q or those games. We should be in the 8. Unless our senior core regains their mojo I think it is lineball whether we are able to recover from here. Some of the youngsters will come on but a lot are only tracking along so so. Players who have had a few seasons at the club such as Seedsman, Thomas and Sinclair even injuries considered are at a bit of a crossroads in their career. 2015 will be make or break for them.

We have our young group of Kennedy, Ramsay, Grundy, Freeman, Scharenberg, Marsh, Oxley, Langdon and Marsh. A lot are pinning a massive faith in these guys. Yes a few show promise but none are definite best 22 next year or beyond. If they can forge careers as good as Blair, Lumumba, Maxwell, Goldsack, Toovey and Caff they will have met reasonable expectation. But we really need a couple of them to go beyond that level and become our next few A graders.

That is the key for this group and they need to do it while our current A graders are for the most still up and about. That is what worries me is that the group of 14 has dropped away too quickly for my liking this year. I don't at all see best case in the youngsters replacing Lumumba, Blair etc rather the 2 groups slugging it out for spots. A few of the senior boys really need to lift there game and make it tough for the younger players so that only a few of the youngsters take their spots.

I don't think there is enough class in our youngsters to expect them just to come on and be a flag contender supplemented by our current stars alone. Teams like the Dogs, GC, GWS clearly have much better younger players on their list. If we are to snaffle another flag I think it needs to come soonish when the likes to Toovey, Lumumba, Blair etc are still a force within the team. That is why how far we have dropped this year is a real worry. Our 2nd half of the season puts us a long way behind.

 

[johncitizen]

The injury Gods have been very cruel the last few years. We seem to have serious ones before the season even starts. It shits me

 

[jmac70]

We still have 14 of the 2010 premiership 22 on the list so we still have a core of really experienced players who have been there done that. It is that factor more than any other that disappoints me this year. Yes we have had injuries and had to play a little more of the younger players than expected but we have lost games this year we shouldn't have.

Let's look at those premiership players.

Macaffer - good season as a tagger but does not get much of the ball
Maxwell - injured
Goldsack - good role player but does not hit the scoreboard
Lumumba - reasonable season
Pendlebury - very good
Blair - average
Ball - average (limited by injury)
Brown - injured
Beams - good
Reid - injured
Sidebottom - good but missed important games
Cloke - OK but not dominant
Toovey - average (limited by injury)
Swan - average (limited by injury)

6 of the 14 have been severly affected by injury. 4 of the 14 (Caff, Sack, Blair and H) are average to ok players, perhaps only H would make it onto a top 4 team list as depth. That leaves only 4 players that have had reasonable to good seasons. IMO, the tag of premiership player is used too readily as a reason why we should be doing better.