We have MAJOR issues

[Hotpiescoldbeers]

Look at the bright side, just put money on the oppositions small forwards to carve us up every week!! Easy money!!

 

[Krueger]

Yes you'd have to say that Mick has a lot to answer for walking out on the club the way he did and refusing to mentor Bucks as he signed up to do. We are now in a position with a coach who has pretty much had to learn from scratch without the benefit of that mentoring and in the face of his predecessor doing all that he could to sabotage relationships with the players. Thank god he's now at Carlton is all I can say.

Now that is really clutching at straws PieNSauce. If Bucks was hired on the proviso that he needed mentoring from Malthouse (no other senior coach with experience i.e. Eade) then he was not ready to coach full stop.

 

[jmac70]

Now that is really clutching at straws PieNSauce. If Bucks was hired on the proviso that he needed mentoring from Malthouse (no other senior coach with experience i.e. Eade) then he was not ready to coach full stop.

Everyone on this board knows that you think the whole succession plan was a mistake. Fair enough. But it cannot be changed now. What good does it serve to constantly bring it up? If you think that there are areas of Buck's coaching that need to be improved then say so. At least then we might be able to have a constructive conversation.

 

[Krueger]

Everyone on this board knows that you think the whole succession plan was a mistake. Fair enough. But it cannot be changed now. What good does it serve to constantly bring it up? If you think that there are areas of Buck's coaching that need to be improved then say so. At least then we might be able to have a constructive conversation.

I think my post was relevant to what was said?

Yes you'd have to say that Mick has a lot to answer for walking out on the club the way he did and refusing to mentor Bucks as he signed up to do. We are now in a position with a coach who has pretty much had to learn from scratch without the benefit of that mentoring and in the face of his predecessor doing all that he could to sabotage relationships with the players. Thank god he's now at Carlton is all I can say.

The alarm bells should have been ringing when Bucks said it not the coaches job to motivate players, only to merely instruct them.

 

[jmac70]

I think my post was relevant to what was said?



The alarm bells should have been ringing when Bucks said it not the coaches job to motivate players, only to merely instruct them.

Perhaps the motivational side is something that Bucks needs to improve on. I disagree however that Eddie should sack him if we fail to make the finals. At the very least he should see out his contract.

 

[TheFreshBanana]

I don't think it's a Bucks issue. But I do think there is a major team issue going on down there right now. The midfield just are not working hard enough. Whether that's a Bucks thing or a players thing, I have absolutely no idea.

I really wish I could find some answers right now....

 

[Markfs]

Lucky to make the 8 at this rate

Disturbing trend of just throwing in the towel when it is too hard

Interesting to make accusations of throwing in the towel. Lucky to make the eight? Well I dont think luck plays any part in it. It revolves around just how much the players want it, how hard they are willing to work, how much confidence they have in themselves etc etc. This isnt a game of two-up. Throwing in the towel is something supporters do early in the game. The players showed that they were a bit better than that last night but they still arent good enough.

As for rebuilding, the statement is plainly stupid at this time. The plan should be to fix problems now and reevaluate at the end of the year.

 

[ksardog]

Wouldnt mind seeing cloke back at CHF where his workrate can be a major weapon and also give him more 1 on 1 contests. His kicking for goal is better the further he is out too.
Get daisy to start at full forward , he done this under mick a few times and always hit the scoreboard early.
Rotate daisy and elliott in that position. Mix it up, we are far too predictable.
Give cloke a rest at full forward at the end of each qtr where he can take advantage of his then tired opponent.
Get goldsack in backline, when he is available. Bring williams in as back pocket.
The ruck is a major concern and will be until witts and grundy are ready.
Tell obrien you kick long at every opportunity because u cant hit a short target to save your life.
Midfield Defence pressure will improve when ball and beams are back.
Have to stop squaring the ball in our back half, we dont have the kicking talent to execute. Therefore bringing cloke to that long leading chf will help with coming out of defence.
Gets dids back in, best kick at the club to a leading forward bar none.
Mccaffer to tag best opposition midfield or lead up forward. Never to play in defence. Didnt u watch zaharakis carve him up anzac day bucks?
Finally the 1% are nearly non existant at the club anymore, our lack of holding tackles and sheperding for others is embarrassing to watch. No excuses for that at all

 

[Run n Spread]

And there we have it. Malthouse was totally uncompromising when it came to the execution of a plan. You did what he said, winning or losing or it it was GTFO! Don't go up the guts because we don't have the talent to do that. Out of his mouth. Remember his love for big arse mids who would get smashed by faster mids? Took him a while and a few early operations in 2005 to give that one away, if you know what I mean?
Last night I felt crook when watching the first quarter but I also remember seeing that quite a few times during Malthouse's reign. Remember the words " WTF is he doing leaving X there, why the f... Would you hit the boundary when here are blokes free in the guts, why do we keep going to the pockets, when we need goals?"
Many in this forum would have been talking about the simplicity of the boundary gameplan and a lack of plan B until we took the flag in 2010. All of a sudden, MM is a genius. In all honesty, MM's plan was exposed in the drawn GF and the Saints were knackered in the second. Credit to whoever got the Pies up for the replay and it wasn't gameplan or coaching. Business end of 2011 and we fell over.

Good post. Ross Lyon invented the press and Malthouse and Collingwood turbo charged it in 2010. Collingwood and Saints had a similar style in 2010. Weird thing about 2010 was it was so unique and unfamiliar to opposition teams that nobody else had any idea how to defeat it. Case in point 1st quarter of the 2010 PF.

The GF thou I'd say the Pies had St Kilda on the rack for the first half, some bad kicking and tiring led to the saints getting back into it in the last quarter and a half and nearly pinching it. The replay they were knackered and had injury problems.

2011 is a bit of a myth that the pies were the stand out team all on their own. There were 2 clear stand out teams and Collingwood just couldn't get past Geelong. Due to Scott tinkering with their game plan a bit and them just being better on the day. The game plan needed remodelling after the 2011 GF. Similar to what Scott did when he took over.

As it stands now Collingwood struggle to shut sides down who burn through the middle. Lack of leg speed and inability to win one on ones throughout the ground. Hawthorn and Geelong are great at it but their risk of getting torched on the rebound is negated by their half back lines. Gibson, Birchall, Stratton, Lake, Enright, Taylor, Mackie, Bartel (when he is back) Lonergan is basically how both teams generate attack.

Getting players back will help as we win more clearances with Ball, Beams and more 50-50 ball. That means we don't get vaporised through the corridor. Still need to fix entries going into 50 and spread the opposition defence otherwise against the good teams it will be a game of ping pong. Still scope for improvement and the problems are not insurmountable.

 

[Markfs]

I agree with have some major issues with our game style and effort right now but lets not be too dramatic. Collingwood have hardly lost a game for the past 3-4 years and so we are not used to it. Its just a momentum thing. It may not be this year that we make a play for the flag but its doesn't mean we won't challenge for the next few.

One thing I would like to see is for us to be less Cloke centric going forward. In understand he is our standealone target but we there too often. Elliot, Lynch etc have marking ability.

Upside from tonight was I thought Josh Thomas & Seedsman outshone most of our stars. Promising for when the stars get their form back.

We'll have some great wins this season.

Good to see a positive post. I dont believe in putting your head in the sand and ignoring mistakes or problems, but improvement to younger players doesnt come in environment of panic and over-reaction.... just look at Melbourne. The comments about game-plan smell of panic. I went to the game last night and I havent looked at the stats but it appeared that we got our hands on the ball in the centre and the gave it away to Freo. I dont think game plan Z is going to help when the players are stuffing up

 

[Markfs]

As it stands now Collingwood struggle to shut sides down who burn through the middle. Lack of leg speed and inability to win one on ones throughout the ground. Hawthorn and Geelong are great at it but their risk of getting torched on the rebound is negated by their half back lines. Gibson, Birchall, Stratton, Lake, Enright, Taylor, Mackie, Bartel (when he is back) Lonergan is basically how both teams generate attack.

Getting players back will help as we win more cleaces with Ball, Beams and more 50-50 ball. That means we don't get vaporised through the corridor. Still need to fix entries going into 50 and spread the opposition defence otherwise against the good teams it will be a game of ping pong. Still scope for improvement and the problems are not insurmountable.

Heath Shaw is one of the better one on one players in the league. Ben Reid outmarked a lot of Freo players last night. He looked reasonably composed during the night. Nathan Brown looked mismatched against Chris Mayne at times. I think he competed ok but Mayne is quicker off the mark. I think the side is missing Toovs. Freo kicked only 15 goals didnt they? Most of them came from Collingwood errors.

As for leg speed in the backline, have a look at Hawthorn and Geelong. Jimmy bartel isnt going to win a stawell gift. Neither is that ex-baldie at Hawthorn. I think its true that we might lack some zip around the ground but other teams are going to have similar problems covering fast breaks if their forwards and mids dont do their job.

 

[Run n Spread]

Heath Shaw is one of the better one on one players in the league. Ben Reid outmarked a lot of Freo players last night. He looked reasonably composed during the night. Nathan Brown looked mismatched against Chris Mayne at times. I think he competed ok but Mayne is quicker off the mark. I think the side is missing Toovs. Freo kicked only 15 goals didnt they? Most of them came from Collingwood errors.

As for leg speed in the backline, have a look at Hawthorn and Geelong. Jimmy bartel isnt going to win a stawell gift. Neither is that ex-baldie at Hawthorn. I think its true that we might lack some zip around the ground but other teams are going to have similar problems covering fast breaks if their forwards and mids dont do their job.

Not necessarily the backs fault. When it comes in at 100km/h any defence struggles. We do lack speed in the middle. Motlop, Christienson, Smith, Rioli, Hill, Jetta etc one of these types can lauch attacks. The Geelong and Hawks defence are great at shutting attacks down. Ben Reid is the best at this for Collingwood and is one of the premier defenders in the comp imo. Toovey massive loss but I think the problems can be rectified. Huge game next week and Collingwood not without a show.

 

[Run n Spread]

Will be very interesting how this year unfolds. After Geelong and Sydney Collingwood could conceivably win 8 on the trot before a very tough final 5 weeks. Win at least 1 and 5-4 is gettable. 6-3 and we're a force to be reckoned with 4-5 and challenges ahead. Think pies will win at least one of the next 2.

 

[cleomenes]

I'm afraid we are among the also rans for this year. The fact that we made up the deficit by three quarter time shows that the team has what it takes. The fact that we then collapsed shows that there is something seriously wrong within the team.
The thing that comes to my mind is that nearly all of the successful coaches of recent times have been ruthless half back flank thugs. (Matthews had the attitude but not the position). We went for a supremely skilled player. From my experience in other sports, the best players are rarely the best coaches.
The coach definitely has a role in motivation. Nearly all players need to be brought up to the mark at times, and made to recognize their failures and how they can remedy them.
Focus groups and systems from industry to motivate usually substitute formulae for understanding and rarely achieve anything other than mediocrity

 

[davywap]

I'll be bumping this thread if we get over Geelong next week. Honestly, never seen so many sorry-arsed, negative throwing-in-the-towel comments ever. If it wasn't indicated you would swear this is a Richmond thread.

If the players give up as easily as most of you guys have, we are gawn.

 

[Ketchup]

We just are not good enough. It's that simple.

 

[loki04]

I'll be bumping this thread if we get over Geelong next week. Honestly, never seen so many sorry-arsed, negative throwing-in-the-towel comments ever. If it wasn't indicated you would swear this is a Richmond thread.

If the players give up as easily as most of you guys have, we are gawn.

As I stated last night we are a fair chance against Geelong (esp if Ball returns) as we match up against them better but it doesn't invalidate many concerns.

No one in this thread has stated we can't win another game for the year, so I don't get comments like yours.

 

[Krueger]

I'll be bumping this thread if we get over Geelong next week. Honestly, never seen so many sorry-arsed, negative throwing-in-the-towel comments ever. If it wasn't indicated you would swear this is a Richmond thread.

If the players give up as easily as most of you guys have, we are gawn.

This has been going on alot longer than 1 week. Its only now that more people are seeing it for what it is and are removing the blindfolds.

 

[the_fresh]

I'll be bumping this thread if we get over Geelong next week. Honestly, never seen so many sorry-arsed, negative throwing-in-the-towel comments ever. If it wasn't indicated you would swear this is a Richmond thread.

If the players give up as easily as most of you guys have, we are gawn.

Good, I highlighted some of or major issues, even Buckley has highlighted them. Our ball use and turn overs through DUMB mistakes along with the midfield cheating is what's costing us games.
Our forward use is poor and too much cloke focused.
If we lose shaw, which we will this week we have no run and no one who wins clear one on ones down there.
Jollys game last night was as bad as any of josh frasers bad games. He should have clearly been the best on the ground, yet I would have given him the 3 bad ones, maybe all 6.

I'm not having a go at Buckley, but there is something wrong down there. There's players having a go at one another.
There's a lot of people who need to pull their heads in.

And I know we're missing players, but its the efforts that have me worried the most.

 

[bradrowe#32]

This is our season;

 

[Buena]

My biggest worry is how ugly we are to watch. Watching Geelong, Hawthorn, essendon, & Sydney is a pleasure. But watching us crab walk it out of defence sideways and backwards, only to blast it high, long, and not very handsome inside 50 won't win a game against a top side. Our game plan is flawed, our players attitudes seem poor, and we won't finish top 10 at this rate. Even if we do hit a winning streak, our percentage has taken such a hit that we need big wins, and plenty of them. Something we just haven't done under Bucks.
I'm not giving up on us yet, but I need to see a spark, and soon. Otherwise, Paul Roos, what are you doing for the next 5 years??? Would you like a job???

 

[KJpie]

4 wins 3 losses with a list as strong as ours is very disturbing. top 4 is looking a distant target.

But the list is neither strong or fully fit at the moment nor settled.

 

[glasseye]

not convinced its the game plan - They looked like they were playing with hangovers. Its not just Jolly either - we've played with losing rucks before and were competitive.
Far far too easy out of our 50; far far too slow getting it in there. The number of times I was swearing at the tv telling them to kick it to a lead only to see them hold it up....
we have problems - knew it for the st kilda game
not this year I fear

 

[lozza63]

From where i sit we seemingly have an issue with team ethic and player buy in? I saw more concerted effort from our kids and that worries me somewhat.

My six year son exclaimed angrily half way through the first quarter-

"...dad Freo are cheating cause they've got so many more players on the ground than us!..." i proceeded to explain that they were working (running) harder that was why they had more blokes up either end of the ground.

I dont see why we were so under prepared for a Ross Lyon onslaught - and even as we wrested the game back RL was plotting his final move whilst we "thought we had them".....he knew we would likely have our final quarter fade out.....

We unfortunately rely far too much on too few to procure victories.

I expect a much different group next week though.

 

[TradeDraft]

My biggest worry is how ugly we are to watch. Watching Geelong, Hawthorn, essendon, & Sydney is a pleasure. But watching us crab walk it out of defence sideways and backwards, only to blast it high, long, and not very handsome inside 50 won't win a game against a top side. Our game plan is flawed, our players attitudes seem poor, and we won't finish top 10 at this rate. Even if we do hit a winning streak, our percentage has taken such a hit that we need big wins, and plenty of them. Something we just haven't done under Bucks.
I'm not giving up on us yet, but I need to see a spark, and soon. Otherwise, Paul Roos, what are you doing for the next 5 years??? Would you like a job???

Agree we are Ugly to Watch and Only a few Times we have looked good and That was the 3rd QTRS of North and Tigers games